"black market" for rescue pups?? Dangerous rescue dogs??

    • Gold Top Dog

    "black market" for rescue pups?? Dangerous rescue dogs??

    Yup, you read it right, a "black market" for mixed breed rescue pups.

    This must seem INSANE to the many good people   on this forum who are saddened because they know healthy, young adoptable dogs being euthanized in their local shelter---- but according to a newspaper article, the demand for pups is so high in New England that not only do rescues and shelters transport pups, private individuals are bringing puppies here in large numbers.

    I don't know if this trend will continue---there are an increasing number of dogs with behavior problems winding up in the news or in a local shelter because of groups/individuals that do a poor job of screening the dogs/ adoptive families/ and following up.

    I am going to link to a couple of articles, but I don't know how long the links will be viable so I'll snip a few  bits:

    Rescue dogs from South (not this one) become local 'horror stories'http://www.seacoastonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080529/NEWS/805290424

    Here's one: More than 50 percent of all the dogs at the NHSPCA shelter in Stratham come from shelters in the South and the West.

    Here's another: One pet transport company, PETS in Cookeville, Tenn., makes runs from the South and Southwest just about every week. It is used by Jody Merrill of Portsmouth, who runs Loyal Heart Puppy and German Shepherd Rescue and regularly brings dogs to New England homes.

    Merrill said in each PETS run, 50 dogs come to its drop-off in Windham, N.H. "Say they come 42 times a year. You do the math. And that's just one transport system."

    And, said Merrill, because there is a dearth of puppies in the Northeast due to the high spay/neuter rates, she estimated more than 90 percent of all puppies in local homes weren't born here.

    ONE transport brings 2,100 dogs a year to Windham NH? That is mind boggling when you consider the size of the towns in that area----the HUMAN population of Windham is about 12,000 and the largest town in the county is about 36,000.

    NINETY PERCENT of local puppies were born outside New England???

    Animal officers: Rescued dogs from South proving dangerous Potential owners advised to do research  http://www.seacoastonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080528/NEWS/805280371

    YORK, Maine — A rottweiler attack of a puppy on Friday is symptomatic of a little-known but potentially serious problem: rescue dogs with behavioral issues living with owners who are overwhelmed by the necessary care.

    York animal control officer Larry McAfee said the three or four cases this past winter in which he had to invoke the state's dangerous animal law all involved rescue dogs.

    These dogs have often been through trauma of some kind and are frequently placed online for adoption, only to find a home with what one animal control officer called "Animal Planet people" who simply don't know what they're in for.

    No, they're not knocking Animal Planet, this is what they mean:

    "They're what I call 'Animal Planet' people. They love animals. They're concerned when they see these dogs on a show," he said. "But then, miraculously, 15 minutes later, the dog is catching Frisbees in the back yard. What they don't see is the two years of hard work and training it took to get the dog to that place."

    BTW The article started with a rottie but it wasn't written to highlight certain breeds, here is the other example:

    A month ago, an adult Labrador retriever from Kittery Point was loose on Long Sands Beach when it attacked five Yorkshire terriers and their owner, McAfee said, although no one was seriously injured. The Lab's owner told McAfee that she was the dog's fifth owner, and it had originally been rescued from the southern United States

    FIVE owners???

    While I'm glad that adoptable dogs are being saved, I'm also concerned about the potential implications if this trend becomes permanent. 

    Saving a puppy sounds great----but what does this mean for local adult dogs that need homes?

    What will happen if there is a dramatic increase in the number of young adult dogs (adopted from out-of-state) dumped at shelters? Will New England shelters find themselves having to think about euthanizing for space like the southern shelters? Are we just shuffling a problem from one part of the country to another?

    • Gold Top Dog

    I live in Manchester, NH and got my dog from a Southern Rescue. He came up with PETS.  They are not transporting black market puppies and have very strict guidelines of which dogs they will bring up.  We picked up right in Windham and while Windham might be a small town, I don't think many people picking up were actually from Windham.  Many were from NY, ME, and all over NH; Manchester certainly isn't a small town.  It was very moving to see the dozens of people getting their new family member, lots of happy tears shed.   I know the contract I signed from the rescue I worked with says I have to return the dog to the rescue if it doesn't work out, so he wouldn't have ended up in a local shelter no matter what.  The rescue I worked with was excellent at getting me in touch with Cruiser's foster mom and her being honest about issues he had (chewing, nipping, jumping, etc). 

     

    In my experience here, because the demand is so high it's very hard to adopt from local shelters. Usually if I saw a dog that I was interested in meeting, they already have several applications on them already or you get denied for reasons southern shelters wouldn't, like not having a fenced in yard.

     

    Honestly, it doesn't surprise me that the demand here has probably slipped into the black market.  I don't think that should stop Southern rescues from doing their thing though.  I don't think it's a transfer of problem, personally.  I do think individuals need to really communicate with the rescue to determine if the dog is right for them before taking in a rescue they haven't met, more screening before adopting out would probably be a good thing and would benefit all involved.   Whether or not people rescue from a local place or far away there is the chance for problems or disaster.  If it doesn't work out with a rescue dog from the south they go back to the rescue on PETS.

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    • Gold Top Dog

    LillianD
    In my experience here, because the demand is so high it's very hard to adopt from local shelters. Usually if I saw a dog that I was interested in meeting, they already have several applications on them already or you get denied for reasons southern shelters wouldn't, like not having a fenced in yard.

     

    amazing

    we had a news feature last night the county SPCA is full, the county shelters are have received 100 more animals then they did during the same period last year.  No wonder we are sending dogs north

    • Gold Top Dog
    Speaking on just the issue of transport.....am I the only one that has no problem with this? If shelters in the North are freeing up, for goodness sakes, I would LOVE for them to take some of the dogs we have stuffed into all of our shelters down here in the South!! Dogs get a better chance of being adopted and not have to be euthanized for spaced, and people up North have more dogs to choose from when adopting. What the problem? Seems like a win-win to me.
    • Gold Top Dog

    Some of that was discussed here:

    http://forum.dog.com/forums/t/78076.aspx

     

    I don't have a problem with moving dogs around with in the US, but I do see problems with importing large numbers of unhealthy dogs/cats/etc from other countries. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    whtsthfrequency
    Speaking on just the issue of transport.....am I the only one that has no problem with this? If shelters in the North are freeing up, for goodness sakes, I would LOVE for them to take some of the dogs we have stuffed into all of our shelters down here in the South!! Dogs get a better chance of being adopted and not have to be euthanized for spaced, and people up North have more dogs to choose from when adopting. What the problem? Seems like a win-win to me.

    Nope, I have no problem either!

    I live right outside of Boston, and Apollo is from Georgia. I PRIVATELY adopted him and paid for his vetting and transport. So, sue me- I rescued my dog off death row, he was to be euthanized the day I adopted him because of lack of space at the shelter he was at. Should I have let Apollo be euth'd and instead get on a waiting list for a Lab at a rescue? Oh wait, I was already turned down for not having a fenced in yard. Seems like a win-win to me, Southern states have many dogs that need homes, New Englanders want to adopt. Do I think better temp tests are needed? Sure, especially in the cases you posted. polarexpress, not every dog from a Southern state is bad, and I hope you're not implying that. Another problem I have with this "article" is this so called 90% statistic...where did this Merrill person get it from? IMO, they pulled it out of their you know what.

    I'm sorry, but posts like this really hit a nerve with me.

    • Gold Top Dog

    whtsthfrequency
    What the problem? Seems like a win-win to me.

    *sigh* it would seem so but it isn't apparently.  A friend of mine in the Carolinas was part of a "train" that placed dogs *carefully* with owners up in the NorthEast -- but some of the state agencies in the NE put a stop to it because they felt they were getting all the "problems" and "dangerous dogs".  Unfortunately it seemed it was more a case of politics than anything -- it's easy to get on a soapbox and say you're "protecting" the population of the NE from "dangerous dogs" -- but no attempt was made to sort out who was doing it well and who was simply doing black market/profit-making and bringing up dogs that were unhealthy and truly a problem. 

    There have been folks doing this very badly -- bringing up animals sick with parvo and whathave you ... and dumping them on people who thought they had, in good faith, contracted for a particular dog.  Very unfortunate but virtually no way to truly 'police' it.  So of course, the dogs with the most to gain, once again 'lost'.  *sigh*

    • Gold Top Dog

    BlackLabbie

    I live right outside of Boston, and Apollo is from Georgia. I PRIVATELY adopted him and paid for his vetting and transport. So, sue me- I rescued my dog off death row, he was to be euthanized the day I adopted him because of lack of space at the shelter he was at.

    Sue you? I APPLAUD YOU for saving Apollo!Yes

    Sure, especially in the cases you posted. polarexpress, not every dog from a Southern state is bad, and I hope you're not implying that. Another problem I have with this "article" is this so called 90% statistic...where did this Merrill person get it from? IMO, they pulled it out of their you know what.

    I'm sorry, but posts like this really hit a nerve with me.

    No, I'm not implying that all dogs from out of the region are bad---far from it.I have nothing but good things to say about most of the groups who are doing this. (In particular I am a fan of  "Save a Dog" http://www.saveadog.com/ Big Smile )

    I posted the info because I found it thought provoking.

    I didn't think the articles went overboard with "anti" opinions and I think they raised some good points about adopters not being prepared for their new family members and if the rescue group doesn't have a local presence then that is a problem. The poor lab that has been shuffled through FIVE homes since coming to NE made me feel so sad---what kind of life is that?

    Yes, the stats are mind boggling which is why I highlighted them. I question them but I don't have any way to fact check them.

    Mass. recently instituted some quarantine restrictions that crippled/shut down some rescues that transport---if you're passionate about this issue and live in one of the other NE states, then I urge you to keep an eye on your state legistlature.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Oh, yes, I do agree that once things like quarantine waiving, unchecked import of sick dogs, etc becomes prominent, it is most definitely a bad thing. I was just making a point because of the other thread regarding the topic that was on here....transporting/importing dogs between states/areas is not a bad thing. It does become a bad thing if not done properly, though.

    The moving of "problem dogs" is a bit of a tricky issue, though. I would think it would be advantageous for dogs with *managable problems*  (ie seperation anxiety, most forms of treatable aggression, fear, etc* to be moved because there would be more people willing to tackle these issues in an area where there are fewer dogs per household (i.e. more willing adopters).

    Again, when such an issue is taken to an extreme, like moving all the chronic human biters/attackers out and up, the benefit quickly disappears. Everything in moderation.

    • Gold Top Dog

    polarexpress

    Sue you? I APPLAUD YOU for saving Apollo!Yes

    No, I'm not implying that all dogs from out of the region are bad---far from it.I have nothing but good things to say about most of the groups who are doing this. (In particular I am a fan of  "Save a Dog" http://www.saveadog.com/ Big Smile )

    I posted the info because I found it thought provoking.

    I didn't think the articles went overboard with "anti" opinions and I think they raised some good points about adopters not being prepared for their new family members and if the rescue group doesn't have a local presence then that is a problem. The poor lab that has been shuffled through FIVE homes since coming to NE made me feel so sad---what kind of life is that?

    Yes, the stats are mind boggling which is why I highlighted them. I question them but I don't have any way to fact check them.

    Mass. recently instituted some quarantine restrictions that crippled/shut down some rescues that transport---if you're passionate about this issue and live in one of the other NE states, then I urge you to keep an eye on your state legistlature.

    No, I'm sorry for posting with emotion...it's just lately I've gotten some flack from a couple people for Apollo being from down South. I do think it's a good idea to write about how rescuing isn't for everyone, because it certainly isn't. I just was responding with emotions, because Merrill (whoever that it), IMO was making the stats up, and because I went through the adoption process, and got turned down (no fenced in yard), so I just went on my own and rescued...which defiantly isn't for everyone. And I also thought the article was a litte large breed discriminatory...you didn't heard anything about some of the nasty little dogs from St.Croix...my neighbor owns a Chi/Mix from there and it's the nastiest little thing.

    I wish someone would write a nice, long article on the Cruzan Dog Rescue...or importing dogs from other countries, which I'm highly against.

    • Gold Top Dog

    These threads always surprise me b/c I just can't imagine shelters having to import dogs.  Not saying it doesn't happen, but around here it's just crazy!  Just German Shepherds alone I could go visit and evaluate a new one everyday.  Puppies have been euthanized for space.  Our local shelters do move dogs around within each other, mainly b/c the county shelter is always full and the Humane Society is not (you have to pay to surrender and animal).  They have a network of rescues and shelters, but even after I checked their stats, dogs were still being euthanized for space. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    "Speaking on just the issue of transport.....am I the only one that has no problem with this? If shelters in the North are freeing up, for goodness sakes, I would LOVE for them to take some of the dogs we have stuffed into all of our shelters down here in the South!! "

     

    I work at a shelter in CT, and i have to say, the shelters here are just as crowded as ever.  I know many shelters that put dogs down on a regular basis due to lack of space.  And many rescues are just taking dogs from the South, leaving us with no place to go to get help. 

    In fact, we are noticing less and less adoptions at this point due to so many dogs being brought up North.  I think it is a HUGE myth that there are no adoptable dogs up here.   I don't want to see any dog die for any reason, trust me, but i think throughout the country, measures need to be put in place to stop the pet overpopulation.  And where i volunteer it is a municipal shelter - i agree that many rescue groups do tend to be a little too gung ho on not adopting for certain reasons, but in the meantime, every shelter i know is full and there aren't many adopters, definitely not as many as there used to be. 

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    I would rather the shelters/rescues up here take dogs in from the South, rather than from Puerto Rico and Ecuador which is what many of them are doing here.

    Also remember that even when shelters seem overloaded with dogs, that doesn't mean there are enough dogs that are the right fit for the people looking to adopt.  Just checked my county shelter on petfinder and out of the 30 dogs, 9 are pit bulls, 4 are rottweilers, and 3 are chows, so more than half the dogs are breeds not suitable for the average owner.  The rest are variations of large lab and gsd mixes.  Only 1 out of the 30 is a small dog, a jack russell terrier with some behavior issues, also a breed not suitable for everyone, although this one looks adorable : )  .

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    Tashmoo5454

    I work at a shelter in CT, and i have to say, the shelters here are just as crowded as ever.  I know many shelters that put dogs down on a regular basis due to lack of space.  And many rescues are just taking dogs from the South, leaving us with no place to go to get help. 

    Hey, just wondering do you work at this shelter? http://www.hartforddogpound.com/index.html

    That's the only shelter I could find around here that still euth's for space/time.

    • Gold Top Dog

     I think some states are taking steps to stop it.  I just read on a BC rescue board that when a group brings an out of state dog into PA, it gets a bill from the Dept. of Ag for something like $325!  So one particular group has had to stop taking in rescues from out of state.  I don't have a problem with it so long as it's very closely controlled.  Unfortunately, that doesn't happen with alot of "independent" rescuers who trade info across internet msg boards, go to shelters, lie and say they're adopting them and then transport them across state lines without health certificates and they trade hands among people who barely know each other.  Too often, the dog can end up in a bad situation.  It happened to my dog and I don't like the idea of it happening to others.  If it's carefully controlled and monitored, there's less chance of a dog ending up in a bad situation.  If there's a shortage of adoptable dogs in the Northeast and dogs in the Southeast can be saved, I'm all for it, but the dogs should go into the Northeastern states already vacced and altered so as not to be a burden on the taxpayers there who are not responsible for creating a pet overpopulation problem.  I think that would be unfair.

    ETA: Fact checking w/PA dog law agency & state vet's office stated the fee is for a license to operate a rescue in their state and NOT  a fee per dog or a restriction on bringing dogs into the state, you just have to be licensed as a "dealer" (even if you're a rescue) to bring dogs into the state.