He killed my cat

Oh no, that is so tragic! There's nothing harder than when one pet kills another, even if it was a temporary pet. I know someone who got a dog from the shelter and due to a simple human slip-up, killed one of their beloved pet house rabbits. They didn't blame the dog, but you never look at them the same way, and it's hard, so hard.

I reckon the killing thing is nonsense. Pyry kills animals all the time (although not cats) and would never hurt a human. He adores children. Over here, dogs are still adopted out if they aren't trustworthy around cats. They're just only adopted out to a home that has no cats or other small animals. Sometimes that extends to small dogs as well.

Owning a dog that kills cats is a big responsibility, though. My family lost a cat to someone else's dog on our own property. The same dog had killed every other cat in the neighbourhood except the one that could get to the garage roof. He lived next door and we knew he would kill our cat if he got the chance and were careful to keep her safe, but we went away for a day and night and when we came home we found her dead. It was especially hard on my mother, who had bred the cat and had her for longer than she'd had any of us kids at the time.

The cat-killing dog was ultimately put down. There was a lot of pressure from the community and people were saying he'd turn to kids next. He wasn't in a nice home, though. He wasn't kept in, wasn't trained, and had been teased a lot growing up. 

Really work on a strong recall. Teach him a strong "Leave IT" command. I do Not agree that they dog should be put to sleep. Hunting dogs may kill animals or small game all teh time and people still let them live and be trusted with them. But I would suggest keeping a close eye on him anytime there is a risk of this happening.

I am so sorry for your loss.  (((Hugs)))     Rest in peace, Meatball. 

nyiceprincess

One of the shelter boad members wants him PTS,immediately.  He says once a dog has killed it cant be trusted.  Next it could be a child!

This is a myth!  Humans have never been the natural prey of dogs (or wolves for that matter).  Their natural prey has always included cats, rabbits, rodents, etc.

However, children should always be supervised around dogs, of course!  Any dog can bite if abused.

nyiceprincess

I would however feel horrible if he was adopted out and hurt someones pet.

If you explained what happened, it would be the responsibility of the adopter to keep this from happening.  There are many breeds that would be completely wiped out if every dog with a high prey drive was destroyed.

nyiceprincess

Anything i should look for as far as clues that maybe it was more than a prey drive issue?

The pup willing surrendered his "prize".  That says to me that it was NOT anything more than prey drive.

nyiceprincess

What should i do?

Socialize the pup - including children.  Then place the dog in a home experienced with dealing with dogs with a high prey drive.

nyiceprincess

One of the shelter boad members wants him PTS,immediately.He says once a dog has killed it cant be trusted.

I think this is a huge myth and would be very sad to PTS a pup like that! I own a dog who is great around other people, children and other dogs. But let me tell you, if she ever got her hands on a cat, rabbit or any rodent, that poor animal wouldn't have a chance. Maggie has a huge prey drive, she hasn't killed anything since I have had her, but I have no clue about in her other homes, but like I said, she's great around people and dogs... 

I think the issue was more along the lines of what would happen if we adopted him out and something were to happen.I think the board member is  afraid of what could happen.He thinks a running child could be mistaken for prey.I think thats silly.Hes a little under 20 lbs at 5 months old i dont think he will top out over 45.Another issue is that he is a bully mix.He is a very agressive chewer,He has destroyed 2 toys just laying next to me in the last hour.If he bit it could be HARD.

I know now that i have to keep a close eye on him.The question is if her were adopted out,would the new owners be so diligent?

When a cat walks by his crate he unleashes an ungodly noise! A few minutes ago he followed me into the kitchen and encountered his first cat indoors outside of the crate.He was VERY curious but did not bark or lunge.I just distracted him,called him,asked him to sit and gave him a treat.He did OK.

nyiceprincess

I think the board member is  afraid of what could happen.He thinks a running child could be mistaken for prey.I think thats silly.

I too think that is absurd.

Like someone else mentioned, socialize him alot with children, with people, etc.

So, so sorry for your loss and for how it happened.  Such a difficult situation - I agree it is a myth this pup will escalate in a killing frenzy.  But having a dog with a high prey drive for squirrels who has successfully dispatched a few, I also think it is wise to recognize this pup may have a very high prey drive now that it has been "rewarded" so to speak by his success and it's going to take a lot of consistent work to get him to ignore that.  I worked very hard with Pofi from puppyhood, knowing he was likely part sighthound, to generalize that the kitties we see outdoors are the same as the kitties we see in our home and therefore off limits. 

In the house, we enforce "leave the kitty" and on walks I clearly identify that furry thing on someone's porch or walk as a "kitty".  Am I 100% confident my two would not treat a cat as prey - particularly a small one - no.  But I do think they have reliable recall and if I'm there and recall them and tell them to "leave the kitty" I could avert disaster most of the time. 

Again, I'm so sorry about poor Meatball - rest in peace little kitty.

Kyda

Really work on a strong recall. Teach him a strong "Leave IT" command.

Excellent ideas!  You might even want to charge an adopting fee high enough to cover this DVD:

Nelson, Leslie, Really Reliable Recall, 2004, DVD
http://tinyurl.com/6bqs63      (Amazon.com)
http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DTB810P

So sorry about your cat Meatball.  Rest in peace over the bridge.

I presume when you described his encounter w/the indoor cat, that he was on leash and/or there was a barrier btwn him and the cat, right?  There's no way I would have him loose in the house w/the cats.  Regardless of how prey drive may be heightened outdoors vs indoors, a running cat is still very enticing. 

There are plenty of dogs who simply shouldn't be around cats, and that is ok.  Just a condition of their adoption - no cat homes.  I'm surprised by the board member's reaction, unless they've never owned/been regularly exposed to and educated about high drive animals.

There was no leash but the cat was up on the back of the chair and i was between them,he is just a little puppy,not even knee high,had he tried anything i could easily scoop him up with one hand and tuck him under my arm.Unlike the young small cat he killed this cat was bigger than him and an older "seasoned warrior"

The pup is definitely more reactive in his crate,on lead and to dogs/cats outside his fenced yard area,even if that same dog was just inside with him.He is also very protective of his food around other dogs,not people,he will growl if the dog in the crate next to him eats.The shelter he was at kept several dogs in each run so he may have had to fight for his food.

The board members reaction surprised me too.We did have a dog here that killed a guinea pig,smashing the crate in the get it.This dog LOVED squeaky toys and the pig,well they make a really loud squeaking noise.He squeezed it to death.

A husky at his house knocked over a bird cage and killed a bird

A cat got out in the dog yard at his house and his wife went out to save it,she did but was bitten severely by several dogs especially in the face.

I think his reaction is more a knee jerk reaction to the death of the cat ( he is a cat lover) and since he is also the insurance policy holder any possible backlash if anything were to happen if the dog is adopted out,it also doesnt help that he is a bully/pit mix.

Dont worry,i am not going to PTS.I will train the heck out of him,maybe even try for his CGC until i am satisfied he is not an immediate danger in the hands of a responsible owner.I happen to have a houseful of kids.He is very smart and a fast learner.

Sorry to hear about Meatball.  What a sad situation.  My Drizzle just killed a squirrel in the backyard.  I don't like it but I don't blame the dog.  I had a foster that killed my pet parrot and again I did not blame the dog.  I always disclose anything I know about the fosters to prospective adopters.  Your dog is very much adoptable.  In your case, I would advertise that the dog does not get along with cats. With this dog, I would watch very closely the reaction to other small animals, especially small dogs.   Many a fosters have come to my home because their previous fosterers had small dogs and the dog would look at the small dogs as prey.

Before this happened he had been aound my small dog Reese,she follows m everywhere including out to play with the othe dogs.She might be 8 lbs.If you have ever watched lure coursing? She is the lure.When she goes out in the yard she bolts! around and around the yard trying to get the other dogs to chase her.She did the same with him,he didnt catch her,no dog ever has,she is fast,but when she stopped he just sniffed her rear,like any other dog and she growled,letting him know she was the boss of the house.He didnt seem to have a problem identifying her as another dog,this could change when he is bigger i suppose.

I think outdoors, to most dogs, pretty much anything that is not a dog and small is prey.  I have 5 cats right now and Kenya ignores ALL of them.  In fact, she is submissive to them.  However, today on our walk these people parked their motorhome in front of someone's house and jumped out onto the sidewalk in front of us with a siamese cat on a leash and harness.  I slowed down and stopped to let them cross the lawn.  Kenya was pretty locked in on that cat.  She was standing still, but definitely looking at me like, "Can I go now, mom?" b/c I allow her to chase rabbits under my command.  Indoors, she shows no interest whatsoever in my cats, but outdoors it's the same as a rabbit.  Sometimes if my back door doesn't latch my cats will come out on the sidewalk and Kenya will chase them back in.  I've heard many times that dogs are very contextual and one thing has a totally different meaning in a different context.

 
I do not think the dog should be PTS.  I would be truthful about the experience and recommend a no cat home, advertise the dog has having a strong prey drive that will need a little extra management and training.  At our shelter, we have adopted out dogs that have killed cats, been returned, and not been PTS.  Sometimes you just never know.  A dog might ignore a cat at the shelter and be adopted by someone with a cat who doesn't properly introduce the animals and their cat gets killed.  They return the dog and we still adopt it out again to a no-cat home as long as it passes the temperament test.
 

nyiceprincess

Another issue is that he is a bully mix.  He is a very agressive chewer,He has destroyed 2 toys just laying next to me in the last hour.  If he bit it could be HARD.

I want to emphasize that prey drive, dog aggression, and human aggression are three different things.  The presence of one does not imply the presence of the others.

I go on the assumption that any dog is physically capable of doing a lot of damage with his/her teeth.  The size of the mouth would worry me more than the breed of the dog.

A teething pup needs to chew.  Aggressive chewing for a pup this young may just mean that his gums hurt.  Raw bones would be great for him right now.  Note that I said "raw".  Cooked bones have a different texture and can splinter too easily.  Just be sure that the bone is too big for him to swallow whole so that he has to learn that he needs to chew bones.

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=2&cat=1633&articleid=385

The first baby teeth, sometimes referred to as 'milk teeth,' erupt from the gumline around four weeks of age. ...

Most puppies are undergoing some form of continued teething, either erupting or replacing the baby teeth, until they are about nine months of age. The exact end to teething varies considerably with each individual puppy. Teething puppies love to chew. This may be an attempt to relieve the irritation associated with raw and occasionally bleeding gums.