FourIsCompany

ottoluv

and you know this how?

I didn't say I knew it. I said it's likely she would have. After all, as far as she knew, this WAS a real boy, a real relationship and a real break-up. She killed herself over (in her mind) a real relationship.

ottoluv

A trained psychiatrist and her parents who saw her EVERYDAY didn't think she would do that.

I haven't seen a statement from a psychiatrist. Do you have a link?

ottoluv

You have no evidence that she was just started on them.

Neither have I claimed that. Do you have evidence to the contrary? 

ottoluv

IMO you have a very uninformed view of mental illness.

For 17 years, I have lived with a person who has been clinically diagnosed with depression. You may consider that uninformed and I certainly don't know everything about it, but I wouldn't say I'm completely ignorant, either. However, that's irrelevant. My opinion about this case has nothing to do with my view of mental illness.

ottoluv, You said a psychiatrist didn't think she was suicidal. All I'm asking is how you know that? Isn't it possible she had been diagnosed as suicidal? We will probably never know.

ottoluv

It's just sad that you live with someone with mental illness and have the "understanding" you do.

Just because I'm not joining the lynch mob here doesn't mean I don't understand mental illness. Because I'm not joining the mob, people are assuming that I think this lady is totally innocent, when nothing could be further from the truth. There's a lot of assuming going on about my opinion. Things I have never stated.

Truley

Yeah, now remember what it felt like when he broke up with you, and tell me it was OK for an adult to do that to a little girl.

NO ONE is saying that it was OK. Of course it's not OK. I have used the words cruel, insane, immature, awful... no one has said that what this lady did was OK.

Some Interesting Thoughts 

The suicide of Megan Meier was tragic. Unfortunately in their quest to sensationalize and drive up readership, the newspapers and media appear to be blindly pursuing a single element of the story. This tragedy has been oversimplified and is not nearly as cut and dried as it is made out to be. As a result, the mindless rage of the Internet lynch mob has taken a narrow aim at Lori Drew and her family. The mob is determined to exact vengeance by any means: fair or unfair, legal or illegal.

Surprisingly, none of the vigilante sleuths has yet posted Megan Meier's medical records. Presumably she was being treated for Depression and Attention Deficit Disorder. These diagnoses are not without controversy themselves. It has been alleged that many children are being overmedicated and misdiagnosed for these ailments. What treatment was Megan receiving and who were her doctors or therapists? What medications, if any, was she taking and in what dosages?

Megan Meier had an imaginary on-line boyfriend. Her mother Christina evidently knew about the relationship and thought it was perfectly acceptable. Naturally, she wouldn't suspect Josh Evans was actually the mother of one of Megan's friends. But, did she never suspect that this unseen person might be not an attractive young boy, but a fat, balding, 50-year-old pedophile in a dirty wifebeater t-shirt? Had Christina Meier never heard of on-line predators who impersonate children?

Did Christina Meier discuss this on-line relationship with Megan's mental health professionals? What advice did Megan's doctors and therapists give regarding her close relationship to person she had never met? Shouldn't Megan's counselors have been aware that Megan was close enough to the imaginary Josh Evans that she was liable to kill herself on his account? Wouldn't it have been prudent to advise Megan or her mother to avoid giving this unseen person such a prominent role in her life that she would end it because of him?

I didn't know that. And I found where her doctor didn't think she was suicidal. Interestingly, she had mentioned suicide to her mother several times previously:

Megan had mentioned suicide several times, her mother said, but had never attempted it, and no one who knew her, including her doctors, felt she was suicidal.

NY Times

I'm not a heartless lout as some of you would like to think. I just think there's more to this story than meets the eye.  And I really don't think I deserve the treatment I'm getting for sharing my opinion. Especially since I haven't said anything to absolve this woman from her part in all this.  

At the risk of being accused of trying to absolve Lori Drew further, she wasn't even the person that wrote the message that sent Megan over the edge! It was Ashley Grills. Here, she admits it.

Here Ashley admits she writes the message that drove Megan to hang herself

Carla, I don't think bad of you!

And you quoted me on post I directed to someone else. A bit off topic, I agree, but related.

With that said. I guess what some of us see, in that gray area of internet forums, is support. May not be what your trying to portray, but it is what is being seen.

ETA: Took out what I wrote after re-reading what you did!

None of us will ever know what really went on in either the child's mind or the adults. What remains is that a child is dead, an adult is accused of  "contributing" to that death, and trying to rationalize the adults actions over a dead child is going to put you on the other side, even if it's not were your really sitting.

FourIsCompany

At the risk of being accused of trying to absolve Lori Drew further, she wasn't even the person that wrote the message that sent Megan over the edge! It was Ashley Grills. Here, she admits it.

Here Ashley admits she writes the message that drove Megan to hang herself

ottoluv

Antidepressants don't encourage suicide, .....  IMO you have a very uninformed view of mental illness.

FYI. There is actually a lot of recent research that does in fact link antidepressants to suicide - especially in teenagers.

FDA Study Links Antidepressants, Teen Suicide

All Things Considered, August 20, 2004 · The Food and Drug Administration releases a long-awaited analysis of the possible risks posed by antidepressants to children and teens. The study comes on the heels of a report published earlier this week that showed Prozac can help alleviate depression in adolescents, but also raises the risk of suicidal behaviors.

The new FDA analysis similarly concludes that young patients taking antidepressants could be at increased risk for self harm. NPR's David Baron reports.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18465372?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSu. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18390943?ordinalpos=4&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSumhttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18239187?ordinalpos=14&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

There are many others. That fda black box warning was 4 years ago and there are a LOT of more recent literature that refute it or attempt to explain it. It's widely thought it's an early effect, but not late which may explain the evidence that adolescent suicide attempts have increased now that prescribing is less common

In my opinion there were probably many contributing factors that led to the tragic death of Megan. I would in no way would minimize the effect the bullying on MySpace had on Megan. I am shocked that an adult woman would participate in such a hurtful act but like 4sC, I am not convinced that she is solely to blame. I'm not even convinced that blame should be laid at anyones feet. I think there were probably lots of signs that went unnoticed by the people that knew her but that does not make them guilty either.

Truley

I guess what some of us see, in that gray area of internet forums, is support.

"I agree the lady needs to be accountable for her part in this.
Yeah, the lady needs to pay for what she did. I am, in no way, defending this cruel and insane act.
No one is saying she's not wholly responsible for her acts.
She is certainly guilty and sick and should pay. I'm not arguing with that.
NO ONE is condoning what the woman did.
NO ONE is saying that it was OK. Of course it's not OK."

And after all that, there's the feeling that I support what this woman did? If that's the case, I suspect anyone who doesn't want to lynch this woman is assumed to be supportive of her. Sorry. I believe in innocent until proven guilty and even then, she's not charged with the death of the girl and I do not think she's responsible for the death of the girl. If that means to you, that I support what she did, then all I can say is that you are mistaken.

Truley

trying to rationalize the adults actions over a dead child is going to put you on the other side

ottoluv

it's very convenient to admit to that after it gains national attention and her mother could face charges,

Ashley Grills is NOT Lori Drew's daughter. She is a third party involved in the scandal and was 18 years old at the time.  

ottoluv

You should know that your comments are very insulting/hurtful to some.

denise m

I'm not even convinced that blame should be laid at anyones feet. I think there were probably lots of signs that went unnoticed by the people that knew her but that does not make them guilty either.

I totally agree. I don't think we can just blame this whole thing on Lori Drew. Ashley Grills was involved. Megan's mother and father were negligent as far as I'm concerned. She was a fragile young girl and they let her get much more than casually involved in an internet relationship. What if it had been a sexual predator? Yes they will suffer the rest of their lives with the agony of "what ifs", but so will everyone involved.

ottoluv

Antidepressants don't encourage suicide, the first thing that gets better are your physical symptoms, so therefore where before someone was suicidal they didn't have the energy to do it. Give them the energy before the mind is better and there can be an increased incidence. You have no evidence that she was just started on them. IMO you have a very uninformed view of mental illness.

Sorry Ottoluv, it was not my intention to "misquote" you. My post was not to support 4iC, prove a point or IMO "inappropriate". I expressed my personal opinion in a subsequent post.

As it is straying off topic I won't comment further on antidepressants and suicide other than to say that I can also quote many studies/opinions that  support/explain a link. For now suffice to say the jury is still out but I am somewhat bias and skeptical regarding to influence large drug companies have on such studies. A topic for another day perhaps.

More than just the obvious, the thing that bothered most about this is the woman that started it all doesn't feel she should in the least share any of the responsibility.  I don't have a quote, but at first her reaction was, "I am sorry she killed herself but I had nothing to do with it."  That's what outraged me, her lack of feeling. 

FourIsCompany

Chuffy

Of course not.  My mistake.  Had this farce online never happened, the girl would still be dead because some kid in the lunch queue made a nasty remark about her hair or something.  

 

There's no need to be sarcastic about it. It's VERY likely that this girl would have committed suicide the first time a boy broke up with her. She was unstable, suffered from depression and was on anti-depressants, which are KNOWN to encourage suicide in children. And as far as she knew, it wasn't a farce.

Chuffy

oh ha ha ha aren't we all laughing....

 

I'm sorry, I don't understand the sarcasm. I don't understand why we can't explore all sides of this issue without making it sound like I'm excusing the woman, condoning what she did or thinking it's funny or something.

I am just at a loss as to how anyone could have that view... taht what the woman did was "just immature and cruel".  When followed through, it sounds sarcastic because it sounds ridiculous.