YES! an indictment in the MySpace suicide case

I just think if someone is going to try to kill themselves they are going to do it regardless of who says what, or who breaks up with them, etc.  I'm not saying what she did was right by any means.  But, it's impossible to prove that she and she alone caused this.  And, honestly, at 13, 14 years old, it wasn't like she was 8 or 9, the teenagers I know that age wouldn't completely believe something online like that. 

 By your logic...

Let's say there's a man on a roof about to jump.  I say some callous things and encourage him, because, hey, if he doesn't do it NOW because of my words, he'll do it tomorrow because of someone else's, so what does it matter?  It;s his fault for being screwed up, not my fault for encouraging him?  If she hadn't pushed that girl over the edge that gil would still be just as dead today anyway, because she'd have killed herself for some other reason?  There's no way of knowing that.
 

What that woman did was WRONG.  Perhaps she is not solely responsible for the death of the girl, but if it comes down to it you could say that a sex offender isn't wholly responsible for his acts either because he suffered abuse as a child and therefore shares some of the blame with his father or whoever.  I saw a progamme about a guy who turned into a sex offender and it turned out to be because of a brain tumour.  When the tumour was gone, he was "cured" and when it regrew, he relapsed.  Yet he took responsibility for the harm he caused.I think even his lawyer said he could have claimed diminished responsibility in his case, but he didn't.   He basically held his hands up and said "I did that and that was wrong."  That's where the bottom line is for me.

Megan was on anti-depressants. 

Megan, a 13-year-old who suffered from depression and attention deficit disorder [...] had been on medication

Megan's mother, who monitored her daughter's online communications, returned home and said she was shocked at the vulgar language her own daughter was sending. She told her daughter how upset she was about it.

Her father said he found a message the next day from Josh, which he said law enforcement authorities have not been able to retrieve. It told the girl she was a bad person and the world would be better without her, he has said.

Source 

Chuffy

What that woman did was WRONG.

Chuffy

you could say that a sex offender isn't wholly responsible for his acts either because he suffered abuse as a child and therefore shares some of the blame with his father or whoever.

No one is saying she's not wholly responsible for her acts. But her acts don't include killing this girl. Her acts include "fraudulently gaining access to someone else's computer" and conspiracy. Of those, I'm fairly sure she is guilty. My point is that people want her to be responsible for the girl's death and I don't believe she is.

I don't think this woman typing some words into her computer from down the block is comparable to what a sex offender does. I have been sexually molested and verbally assaulted and let me tell you, I'll take the words any day of the week.

I am not portraying this child in any particular way. I'm quoting news stories. My intention is not to blame the victim, but to keep an open mind about the possibilities in this case. I am simply looking at it from an unbiased, legal position. It's not easy to do, because I have seen the videos of her mother and I cannot imagine what she and her husband (they've since divorced) and her entire family did and are going through. 

There are many people looking at this story from the emotional position. I'm just taking a legal view and reminding everyone that this woman did not kill the child. She is certainly guilty and sick and should pay. I'm not arguing with that.

And by all means, if you can't stand to read a different viewpoint anymore, feel free to skip over my posts or ignore the entire thread.

willowchow

I just think if someone is going to try to kill themselves they are going to do it regardless of who says what, or who breaks up with them, etc.  I'm not saying what she did was right by any means.  But, it's impossible to prove that she and she alone caused this.  And, honestly, at 13, 14 years old, it wasn't like she was 8 or 9, the teenagers I know that age wouldn't completely believe something online like that. 

From a mental health perspective, that is simply untrue. That is not how suicide works.

Would anyone condone pushing a kid in a wheelchair down a hill? What happened here is the emotional equivalent. Yeah, so it was the car that hit the wheelchair kid and not the pusher.

The neighbor woman knew this young girl. She created a "boy" that she knew would appeal to the girl. She knew what buttons to push. You cannot compare what she did to the hypothetical "What if she had met a real boy who did this?" The Josh character was specifically created to play on this girl's weaknesses. Emotional torture of a psychologically vulnerable child by an adult - that is sadistic.

A 13 year old is a child. CHILD.

Dog_ma

Would anyone condone pushing a kid in a wheelchair down a hill?

This is what I don't understand. NO ONE is condoning what the woman did.

Secondly, pushing a kid in a wheelchair is not comparable. Standing next to the kid, saying awful things to him is. It's immature and cruel, but if the kid tips himself down the hill to be injured or killed, the person saying the awful things is responsible for saying awful things. Not for killing the child.

There's an interesting discussion on another board here. Some very interesting points.  

FourIsCompany

Dog_ma

Would anyone condone pushing a kid in a wheelchair down a hill?

 

This is what I don't understand. NO ONE is condoning what the woman did.

Secondly, pushing a kid in a wheelchair is not comparable. Standing next to the kid, saying awful things to him is. It's immature and cruel, but if the kid tips himself down the hill to be injured or killed, the person saying the awful things is responsible for saying awful things. Not for killing the child.

There's an interesting discussion on another board here. Some very interesting points.  

Ok, condone was the wrong word. Minimize, perhaps?

I think pushing a wheelchair is absolutely comparable. Mental illness is a disability. The girl was struggling with mental illness (depression) and this ADULT woman engaged in behavior that is a known contributor to depression. Chances are she didn't do the mental math - maybe like kicking the wheelchair not thinking it would roll, only to watch as it heads off down the hill.

FourIsCompany

I don't think this woman typing some words into her computer from down the block is comparable to what a sex offender does

I didn't suggest it was.

FourIsCompany

My point is that people want her to be responsible for the girl's death and I don't believe she is.

Of course not.  My mistake.  Had this farce online never happened, the girl would still be dead because some kid in the lunch queue made a nasty remark about her hair or something.  This woman had nothing to do with her death....... *shrugs* 

FourIsCompany

It's immature and cruel, but if the kid tips himself down the hill to be injured or killed, the person saying the awful things is responsible for saying awful things.

If another CHILD had said those things I would be happier describing it "immature and cruel".  The fact that this was an ADULT who KNEW the victim, plus the whole thing was carefully plotted out - this makes the "immature and cruel" label insufficient as far as I am concerned.  It makes it sound like what the woman did was of no consequence at all, just a childish trick, a jape, oh ha ha ha aren't we all laughing....

Chuffy

Of course not.  My mistake.  Had this farce online never happened, the girl would still be dead because some kid in the lunch queue made a nasty remark about her hair or something.  

There's no need to be sarcastic about it. It's VERY likely that this girl would have committed suicide the first time a boy broke up with her. She was unstable, suffered from depression and was on anti-depressants, which are KNOWN to encourage suicide in children. And as far as she knew, it wasn't a farce.

Chuffy

oh ha ha ha aren't we all laughing....

I'm sorry, I don't understand the sarcasm. I don't understand why we can't explore all sides of this issue without making it sound like I'm excusing the woman, condoning what she did or thinking it's funny or something.

FourIsCompany

Chuffy

Of course not.  My mistake.  Had this farce online never happened, the girl would still be dead because some kid in the lunch queue made a nasty remark about her hair or something.  

 

There's no need to be sarcastic about it. It's VERY likely that this girl would have committed suicide the first time a boy broke up with her. She was unstable, suffered from depression and was on anti-depressants, which are KNOWN to encourage suicide in children. And as far as she knew, it wasn't a farce.

>

FourIsCompany

There's no need to be sarcastic about it. It's VERY likely that this girl would have committed suicide the first time a boy broke up with her. She was unstable, suffered from depression and was on anti-depressants, which are KNOWN to encourage suicide in children. And as far as she knew, it wasn't a farce.

I personally don't think it would have been very likely. And saying that someone who commits suicide would have done it anyway is harsh and unaccepting IMO.(not just you 4ic, others said it too)

I personally do not believe she will be convicted of murder, it is to much of a gray area in our society. They would have to prove she knew this would happen, and that, hard as it is to live with, is going to be very hard to prove.

But I also believe that she should be charged with something. This was an adult, playing with the fragile mind of a 13 year old girl, for no other reason than because she wanted to. To purposely lie? I find her reasoning for the stunt, lacking. She should have stepped up as the adult she was and answered her questions another way, like with communication with the girl and her parents. I think the one thing that bothers me the most is that this woman, a mother of a child, was having fun at the expense of a child.

Hurting a child like that is right up there with slapping a baby that cries and kicking puppies.

It's called Abuse.

And it is a punishable crime.

ottoluv

and you know this how?

ottoluv

A trained psychiatrist and her parents who saw her EVERYDAY didn't think she would do that.

ottoluv

You have no evidence that she was just started on them.

ottoluv

IMO you have a very uninformed view of mental illness.

willowchow

  And, honestly, at 13, 14 years old, it wasn't like she was 8 or 9, the teenagers I know that age wouldn't completely believe something online like that. 

Good for you.

I on the other hand see teenagers and adults daily, who would fall into this category. Would be nice if every teenager could sail through that age set without being labeled different, weird, fat, skinny, nerdy, 4 eyes, ugly and the what not. Teenagers are CRUEL. Teenage girls IMO, are the worst of the offenders. Add a chemical imbalance into the mix, and you can add the anxiety and stress of just being you by 100%.

All everyone wants is to be accepted for who they are, not what other's dictate them to be. And people(read teenagers, adults and gosh just about everyone) who find a little kindness or acceptance where none was before, are going to fall the hardest. These are the people who need the most care, not jokes and lies.

What you had here was a very insecure, impressionable teenage girl, who thought she had been noticed by a boy, oh my gosh! Think back to the first time you had a boy first noticed and say nice things to you, remember the thrill? the anxiety? the nervousness? the giggling with your girlfriends? the daydreams?

Yeah, now remember what it felt like when he broke up with you, and tell me it was OK for an adult to do that to a little girl.