Dog Community

Advice please - malnourished dog

Posted : 5/14/2007 11:59:21 PM

Hi,

This is probably the wrong place to post this but i figured more people might see it.

I need some advice on feeding a severely emaciated dog. Basically he was a stray, though by his temperament and the way he responds to people he was most definitely someone's pet at one point in his life - have had an argument with a guy who said he was his owner but who then later denied it. He is literally skin and bone, his spine, hip joints, ribs are so clearly showing that it is painful to look at him. He does seem very unsteady on his legs, his back legs give way at times - and am not sure if that is weakness or a problem with the legs. Guess will find out in time. He has responded ok to me because have seen him off and on for a period of a few weeks and have been trying to put food out for him whenever possible.

What i was wondering is does anyone have any experience of feeding and building up a dog in this condition? Are two or three small meals a day the best way to go, or one main meal during the day - although am not sure his system can cope with a normal size meal at the moment. Would anyone have any advice on whether I should add anything to the meals apart from meat for extra nutrients and so on? And whats the timeframe for doing this at a rough guess - I dont want to overfeed him and cause more problems. I am thinking it will be a slow process.

The local vet is great but nutrition is not a speciality of his. This dog has an amazing temperament and his spirit seems unbroken despite what he has been through, he is starting to play or try to with my other dog and seems to thrive on attention. Plan on trying to build him up and see if can find him a good home, though people here only seem to go for pure breeds so I already know he will almost definitely be staying. The joys of housetraining - had forgotten how much I hate that - and with a former street dog that joy is multiplied many times over!

On a side note this will probably sound really, really stupid but I lost Sam,my

revious dog, to illness not long ago and feel guilty having a strange dog in the place so soon. I knew that at some point I would have another dog, not least because Amy my other one LOVES dogs, but was not planning on it so soon. Almost feels like a betrayal if that makes sense, and am not sure if am emotionally ready for it yet, can't even begin to think of names.

Thanks in advance - and I hope people dont think its wrong of me to ask for advice as I hardly ever post here.

badrap

Posted : 5/15/2007 12:17:31 AM

check with callie and DPU! callie knows, like, everything[

] and DPU has very similar experiences... there might even be a thread somewhere regarding the weight of his newest foster, Essie.

Christina Rancour

Posted : 5/15/2007 12:27:41 AM

Oh no! I would have said that if he was still with the owner call the police or the SPCA or someone, but if you are planning on keeping him yourself I have no helpful advice on feeding a starved dog. I would say take him to a vet. Even if not your vet. You could call some and tell them about the dog's condition and find out if they would be able to advise you. If the dog had not seen a vet already it would be a good idea anyway. If the idiot owner wasn't willing to feed him he probably wasn't willing to provide shots and heartworm pills. He might be sick.
Does the original owner who is now denying the dog live close to you? He is denying the dog now, but once the dog is healthy again he might start demanding it back and make your life miserable. I had that happen once with an abused cat. It wasn't fun. When the cat was filthy and terrified they didn't care that I took her, but then six months later they suddenly began pestering the life out of me demanding the return of their cat. They never took it to the police or anything, so I'm not sure if I would have been forced to return her to them or not.

serge

Posted : 5/15/2007 1:36:52 AM

Thanks for the responses. Badrap thanks for that! I will see if the two people you mentioned can offer some advice. I feel a bit rude just messaging them out of nowhere - or is that acceptable protocol here? Thanks for that.

MiddleEye - thanks for the advice but I am currently working in Pakistan and things like the SPCA and animal rights organisations are nonexistent. I saw the guy and the dog quite some time back and got into a heated discussion about the dog's condition and the fact I had seen him off and on living on the street. The guy said it was his but so what basically. And if he at some point decides it is his and wants him back, well lets just say no, no and hell no. He can be as much of a nuisance as he likes, but when need be I am selectively deaf and a pain in the arse too.

Took the dog to the vet yesterday and so far it is clean him, feed him, rehydrate him and go from there. Shots and so on are nt a good idea at the moment as he probably is nt in a condition to handle them. The main thing seems to be see how he responds to food, get his strength back up to a passable level over the next week or so and then take it from there. Will be taking him back in for another check tomorrow.

Housetraining is not going to be fun. Thanks again guys.

janet_rose

Posted : 5/15/2007 7:50:17 AM

Are two or three small meals a day the best way to go, or one main meal during the day

Small, frequent meals are the way to go to get his system used to processing food again. Overfeeding will result in diarrhea.

On a side note this will probably sound really, really stupid but I lost Sam,my revious dog, to illness not long ago and feel guilty having a strange dog in the place so soon.

I am sorry for your lost. Your feelings are completely normal! See if you can get a hold of a copy of

Sife, Wallace, The Loss of a Pet, 3rd edition, 11/2005
[link>http://tinyurl.com/yt34zt]http://tinyurl.com/yt34zt[/link][/size]

[font=verdana]Thanks in advance - and I hope people dont think its wrong of me to ask for advice as I hardly ever post here.

[/font]
No problem! Ask as many questions as you like.

janet_rose

Posted : 5/15/2007 8:27:54 AM

Here are a couple of recipes for "satin balls" which are designed to put weight on a dog:
[linkwww.njboxers.com/satin-balls-recipe.htm[/link]>http://www.njboxers.com/satin-balls-recipe.htm]www.njboxers.com/satin-balls-recipe.htm[/link]
[linkhttp://www.seefido.com/dog-discussion-forum/viewtopic.php?p=[/link]10889>http://www.seefido.com/dog-discussion-forum/viewtopic.php?p=10889]http://www.seefido.com/dog-discussion-forum/viewtopic.php?p=[/link]10889

If you do have a diarrhea problem, try a couple of Tbs of plain (not spiced), canned pumpkin. That will help to normalize the stool.

A good probiotic will help the digestive tract to adjust.

DE Lee

Posted : 5/15/2007 8:37:39 AM

find someone who has a recipe for "fat balls"
I will see if I can find our recipe for them.
The best thing is not to over feed. Several small meals are better than one or two big meals. The dog will likely gain weight with just normal feeding...but you want those feedings to be with feedings that provide essentials! Do not give the dog too much protiens and fats as their his body may not know what to do with it. The body will begin digesting itself in severe cases of starvation and too much of a good thing...too much protien etc...can actually cause kindey and liver problems/failure as the dogs body struggles to deal with processing incoming nutrition using only partially functioning organs.
We usually just feed noraml kibble and soft food meals for a week or two to make sure we are not dealing with non functioning internal organs. If the dog seems to handle that okay...then we start making the fat balls and adding in vitamin supplements etc etc.

DE Lee

Posted : 5/15/2007 8:39:10 AM

satin balls...above post...and fat balls are the same thing...

serge

Posted : 5/15/2007 10:07:08 AM

Thanks for the info. I looked at the recipes for satin/fat balls and will see if can get the ingredients tomorrow. The links say to feed it raw and that it puts weight on quite quickly, but am wondering how fast is too fast? As you mentioned too much food too soon can be dangerous.

RobDar - you said you feed normal kibble and soft food - so you recommend normal dog food for a while? I normally give my dogs cooked chicken and things like that. Is that best avoided to begin with? For the vitamin supplements would normal human multi vitamins do the trick or is it something else?

A futher question - what kind of time period, difficult I know without seeing the dog of course, do you think I should be aiming at to build him back up. I know it will be months yet, but am wondering what goals I should have in mind. Right now for example his hip joints are clearly protruding and visible from a distance. Is that something that should be recitified in a month, two months, etc?

Am crating him (trying to get him to rest and conserve energy) taking him out regularly but briefly so he can stretch his legs and get used to me and Amy (my other dog). Not surprisingly he has short bursts of movement which leave him knackered out, but he does seem very very friendly. I appreciate all the advice and info, and will also be taking him back to the vet tomorrow.

The vet yesterday hazarded a guess that he is a Dobe-GSD mix, but thats only a guess. Really hard to tell in these circumstances. Thanks again.

DPU

Posted : 5/15/2007 10:34:20 AM

Hi Serge,

The dogs that I foster usually come to me in an emaciated stated. There was one exception where I fostered an overweight she Beagle and that was much harder than putting weight on a dog.

You will be surprised to know that it only takes 4 or 5 days for a dog to get in a severe emaciate state. Towards the end, the dog gets in to a basic need mode and will do anything and everything to get food and water. The final stage is where the dog actually gives up and won't eat. I have had dogs come to me in each of the stages, and it is rough going for a little bit.

Also, you will probably be surprised to know that if you provide the dog lesser than normal portion spread over 3 meals, the dog will gain 25% of its body weight in a short period of 2 weeks. By the 4th week the dog should plateau in weight gain. After a couple of months the dog will be totally released from fullfilling the basic need. But during this weight gain time, it is important that the food go towards building muscles and not hanging fat. So some activity is in order. Callie will tell you it is important balance because the dog frame is weak and will have a harder time holding fat, hence buidl muscle in the hind legs.

Attached are 2 threads about Essie (only a couple advisory comments within) and a thread about Emaciated Dogs.

Good luck and let me know if I can help. I am sure Callie will be along shortly. She has helped me out alot.

[linkhttp://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=298953&mpage=1&key=newt%2Cessie񈿉]http://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=298953&mpage=1&key=newt%2Cessie񈿉[/link]

http://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=318912&mpage=1&key=essie񍷀

http://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=299896&mpage=1&key=starving񉍸

Margaret Tyler

Posted : 5/15/2007 6:45:45 PM

Satin balls are great.

I do know a couple of people that rescued pits. They have had great success with Eagle Pack Chicken Holistic and they add probiotics (the healthy microorganisms found in yogurat that aid in nutrient absorption).

calliecritturs

Posted : 5/15/2007 10:04:32 PM

Don't TRY to "fatten him up". DPU is exactly right -- feeding actually less than a normal amount so the body puts on weight slowly enough for the muscle mass to build is definitely the way to go.

It's not just the frame - but all the organs, etc -- the whole dog isn't strong enough to carry around too much yet -- so easy does it.

Very small meals -- and many of them. You want each bite of food to really count and go towards strength.

Be aware -- a dog that has been starved will often do the strangest things once they find out there IS food to be had. When DPU first got Essie, one night she broke into a bag of food and made a little oinker out of herself and then he had to stress over whether that much kibble WOULD pass thru her system without causing illness.

So take extra care -- make sure she can't break into where you have stored the food -- once she gets a taste of food she will try to gorge -- don't let her. Good quality food -- in measured portions.

Some massage of the large muscles will help blood to circulate and help build strength. Good luck.

Cita

Posted : 5/15/2007 11:24:41 PM

On a side note this will probably sound really, really stupid but I lost Sam,my previous dog, to illness not long ago and feel guilty having a strange dog in the place so soon. I knew that at some point I would have another dog, not least because Amy my other one LOVES dogs, but was not planning on it so soon. Almost feels like a betrayal if that makes sense, and am not sure if am emotionally ready for it yet, can't even begin to think of names.

Maybe Sam sent your new fellow your way. He was flitting around as a little doggie guardian angel, saw this poor neglected dog, and said, "Hey dude, my owner is an amazing guy, he'll take care of you." I'm sure Sam was a kind dog who would have wanted to help out.

jeano

Posted : 5/16/2007 12:16:12 AM

First of all, your feelings about your other dog are completely normal. I sure do understand that one!

I once rescued a yellow lab who weighed 35 lbs at the time. You could see ever single bone in her body and she could barely walk. She desperately tried to scramble into my pick and wanted to go home with me. She too, had an owner who was starving her to death.

We knew nothing about rehabilitating an emaciated dog, but we must have done the right things. She did end up with a degenerative nerve problem in her hind end, which could have been genetic (we think she was a puppymill dog) and eventually couldn't even wag her tail, which was sad. But she put on weight until she was a normal 60 lbs, and when she could run we were beside ourselves with joy!

I would think that parasites would be a huge concern but better dealt with when the dog is more robust and able to deal with treatment.

Bless you for trying to save this one little soul!

Christina Rancour

Posted : 5/16/2007 12:31:23 AM

I'm sorry, I didn't realize that you were outside of the U.S.
Good for you rescuing that poor dog. I would not feel guilty. I'm sure Sam would be proud of you for trying to help a dog in need.