The Elitist Attitude.

Marklf

Do you still wonder why I am not to thrilled with the "elitist" attitude?

What's the difference in calling a group of people "elitist" based on your opinions and that group calling you "irresponsible" based on their opinion?

And I'm still waiting for your response to my last post. So I'll repost them here.

Marklf

Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class

Marklf

And by "free country" it sounds like you mean people are "free" to do as YOU want them to otherwise YOU are free to impugn their character! 

Are you saying that we aren't free to say that others are irresponsible when we judge their actions to be irresponsible?
 

FourIsCompany

What's the difference in calling a group of people "elitist" based on your opinions and that group calling you "irresponsible" based on their opinion?

Well for one thing many posters on here have declared that they are "proud" to be called  an elitist yet I have seen no one that is claiming they are "proud" to be called "irresponsible"!  So if I refer to someone as having a "elitist" attitude apparently many on here do don't consider that to be insulting in fact they are proud of the label  but referring to someone as "irresponsible" or "unethical" because they choice to breed healthy, intelligent, good tempered, friendly PETS  is, IMHO, insulting!

FourIsCompany

And I'm still waiting for your response to my last post. So I'll repost them here.

Hmmm I did not respond to them the first time you asked them because I thought they were silly questions that lacked any intellectual challenge and added nothing to the discussion.  Having re-read them now that you posted them again I have concluded that my original opinion of them was correct so I will not waste my time answering them here either! 

Mark

But you were certainly happy to post that the questions were "silly" just so you could quip an insult :-p  Now THAT is a waste of time.

Personally I think it's a cop out, but what do I know....I'm an "elitist" so my opinion doesn't matter :-p 

Marklf

Well for one thing many posters on here have declared that they are "proud" to be called  an elitist yet I have seen no one that is claiming they are "proud" to be called "irresponsible"! 

Well, that should tell you something right there...   There is good reason to be proud of having responsible breeding standards (what you call "elitist";) and there is good reason to be ashamed of having irresponsible breeding standards.

Marklf

Hmmm I did not respond to them the first time you asked them because I thought they were silly questions that lacked any intellectual challenge and added nothing to the discussion. 

Oh, Okay. I'm going to agree that that's a cop out. You use the word "Elite" to insult people here, and say that it means "Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class" and when asked, Who is controlling, ruling or dominating you? you claim that's just a silly question and lacks intellectual challenge? In fact, the question IS an intellectual challenge. And you just walked away from it.

That's cool.

snownose

AgileGSD

I would rule out the dog as a great sled dog if it didn't have the proper coat for the job.

 

I think that has already been shown to be incorrect....as we see Alaskan sled dogs running with very short coats......it's the speed and endurance that counts in the highly competitive races....

 But is that what really counts in a great sled dog? If you are breeding historically correct sled dogs, coat is very important. If you are breeding sport dogs, coat doesn't so much matter.

ron2

Yes, I'm so woefully ignorant.

I've been trying to agree with you but you're going to continue trying to prove that you know so much more than I do, which may not take much.

 I don't think you are ignorant and never implied so. I just think you were some how missing what I was saying about your statement that Shadow would have been a great start for a sled dog breeding program.

ron2

Or are you just reacting on instinct because I proposed, academically, a breeding I wouldn't condone, based purely on the ability to do a job?

 I actually have no issues with breeding mixes for sport or work or developing of new breeds. My point in posting was that when breeding for sport or work, the dogs in your breeding program would need to be dogs who actually DO the job you are breeding for. It wasn't really an issue of ethics at all, just an issue of how successful breeding works. It is very common for people to think their dog would excel at X sport/job, only to find out the dog doesn't have the temperament or ability. Big pet peeves of mine are people who are SURE their dog would be an excellent herding dog because it chases cats, would be great for protection work because it barks at strangers or would be an awesome sled dog cause it pulls on leash. Such jobs are a lot more complex than most people realize and dogs who have not been selectively bred for them more often than not do not excel at them. GSDs that are not from a working pedigree seldom have what it takes to be police dogs, BCs from an unproven pedigrees seldom are the outstaning herding dogs that define the breed and there are lots of Sibes (both pet and show bred) out there who can't or won't work.

AgileGSD

My point in posting was that when breeding for sport or work, the dogs in your breeding program would need to be dogs who actually DO the job you are breeding for. It wasn't really an issue of ethics at all, just an issue of how successful breeding works.

And once again, I agree. I still can't find the info I want on his lineage. For all I know, his Sibe parent could have come from a winning line, and just as likely not. So, I had no basis to assume that he came from a proven line. But my primary concerns at the time (early 2005) when I had offers to have him sire a litter, was the logistics of caring for a litter and guarantees of good homes which couldn't be guaranteed, though you can't guarantee that with purebreds, either. What, you might say? Well, in our one shelter in our rural farming county I found a Shiba Inu. How does a fairly rare dog like that wind up here? Because it's nearly impossible to guarantee good forever homes. I actually agree with you. And just look at the reaction to my hypothetical case. I don't know how many more times I can say that I agree with you. And I acted ethically in Shadow's case. I know just enough about breeding and whelping the real world of unwanted dogs to stay out of it.

FWIW, if I were in a place to seriously dog sled, I still wouldn't breed. I would rescue dogs and build a team that would work for me.

So many dogs in shelters who would make loving family companions being put to sleep everyday. And yet people still think its okay to breed thier unproven pet dogs whose only goal in life is to be a lap dog to their owner. Heck my MUTTS get lots of compliments about how beautiful and well behaved they are; maybe I should breed them. (lol that was a joke)

I guess people are free to do as they please, tho. I just dont agree with it. Bleh.