The Elitist Attitude.

rwbeagles

Marklf

If a person is more concerned with the breed "standard" then producing good quality PETS then they will end up producing dogs that are less likely to fit in with families and will be more likely to end up in the pound.

This statement is really not making sense, I'd love further explanation.

I am referring to those whose breeding practices are more concerned with producing a confirmation title then producing a dog that is of suitable temperament for a family pet.  All "show breeders" produce dogs that cannot compete in the ring so they sell them as "pets" but the criteria that they used for selecting which dogs to breed to produce that "show dog" may not be the best criteria to use for selecting which dogs to breed for a good "pet" dog.

Mark

Marklf

That is fine but you seem to contradict yourself when you then say "If your breed is not suppose to have a white splash on his chest then you should not breed one with a white splash on his chest regardless if he can hunt..."!  If I want a dog for its ability to hunt why on earth would I care if it has a "white splash" on its chest????  I can understand if the deviation from the standard could cause medical issues such as lack of a testicle or even your example of of the pink nose being burned but a "white splash" on the chest does not effect the hunting ability of the dog and that is what you claimed was important!

If it were undesirable then why would you breed for it? If you care not for one part of the standard then one can assume that you care not for any other part of it, and from that one can assume that you would simply breed a dog because you like it, which IMO is a bad thing for whatever breed you are breeding

You do not have to be a professional to breed dogs, you do not have to show them or even hunt them, but you should at the very least love the breed and have a desire to preserve it as it is suppose to be.

Marklf

I am referring to those whose breeding practices are more concerned with producing a confirmation title then producing a dog that is of suitable temperament for a family pet.  All "show breeders" produce dogs that cannot compete in the ring so they sell them as "pets" but the criteria that they used for selecting which dogs to breed to produce that "show dog" may not be the best criteria to use for selecting which dogs to breed for a good "pet" dog.

 Perhaps I understand what you are saying now, and I may even agree with you.

 Please note that when I mention the standard as being important I am referring to all of it.

General Apperance

Important Proportions

Behavior and Temperament

Gait and Movement

Coat

Color

Size

  All of it, and if you breed (which I agree that many who show do not do this) always for the purpose of achieving the standard then you should also be breeding a dog that is quality, whether you choose to hunt or show or just have as a pet.

If you breed with an obsession of achieving the perfect conformation show dog and you disregard temperament than you are harming the breed just as much as the puppy mill breeder is.

 If you breed with an obsession of creating the perfect hunter with no regard of conformation or general appearance or temperament you are harming the breed just as much as the puppy mill breeder is.

   The standard in it's entirelty is what any breeder should be striving for.

whtsthfrequency,

"There are absolutely LOADS of dogs besides pittie and lab mixes in rescues and shelters...check petfinder.... purebreds galore."

 Yes there are other dogs besides pitti and lab mixes at the local pound but as I stated those are what is the most prevalent in my local pound.  In fact they rarely have purebred dogs at the local pound and when they do they are usually there because they had behavior issues which were significant enough for their owners to get rid of them.   Petfinder is a viable option but be aware that if one wants to adopt a puppy from a shelter in Virginia they can only get what is available at their local shelter or in the shelter of a bordering town. 

Mark 

 That's not true, those rules are dependent on the county, there are shelters and humane societies in Virginia who adopt outside of adjacent counties and out of state in certain instances.

I am also a newby here and have been watching this thread and feel the need to reply.  When I decided I needed another dog (my last one died 2 years ago at the old age of 16) I decided to get a PB.  I really wanted a schiz tsu (sp) because my sis has one and I love him.  Not knowing much about BYBs I was looking at puppies at the local flea market and became concerned because there was NO health promises.  I did some reasearch and discovered the issues with BYBs and decided I did NOT want to deal with these people.  I still would love to have a PB but decided since I just want a pet that was totally not necessary.  I decided to visit a shelter in Louisiana one day to see if they had any puppieand yes I really wanted a puppy.  At first I did not see anything I thought would fit into my apartment lifestyle and the had some young dogs but NO puppies but then my GS discovered some that were not yet up for adoption.  They were these beautiful little balls of fur and I was told they were chow.  Because we could not get one that day I researched everything I could find and decided that I could do that so a week later I got CC.  She is a chow mix and not a PB but I really dont care.  We have had her for 7 wks, she is 13 wks old now.  I am soo glad I chose a rescue.

 If I decided to get a PB though I would go to a reputable breeder though.  Thank God I did some research before I paid my hard earned $ for a pet.  I have always wanted a show quality dog but realistically know I do not have the time or financial resources to show one so it would be foolish for me.  I am glad I decided to rescue.

I am a rescue elitist--LOL

  Petfinder is a viable option but be aware that if one wants to adopt a puppy from a shelter in Virginia they can only get what is available at their local shelter or in the shelter of a bordering town.

 Um.....no, that's not true.... And I live in Virginia..  I doubt people would be  be willing to make the sacrifices needed over the course of a lifespan to actually own a dog if they won't drive more than thirty minutes to get one. Is it really that hard to drive a little? You aren't limited by what is within a 20 mile radius. You can adopt from all over the state, and in most/many cases from other states as well.

Many neighboring state rescues would also GLADLY set up transport for a dog, if you can't drive. We have transports come through all the time.

 If you don't see anything you're interested in at just the local pound, why not try a rescue in the next county? Ask other rescues about transport options? It's all doable, it just depends on a person's willingness to make the effort.

edited to add -- this is a collective "you" , not you in particular - didn't mean to sound accusatory :)

bevgo

I am a rescue elitist--LOL

 

Thank you for rescuing and "Here's Your Sign"!   

BCMixs

 That's not true, those rules are dependent on the county, there are shelters and humane societies in Virginia who adopt outside of adjacent counties and out of state in certain instances.

Actually it is true if one is attempting to adopt from a county or city pound in the state of Virginia.  State law prohibits them from adopting puppies or any un-altered pets to individuals that do not live in that county/city or an adjacent county/city.

Mark

whtsthfrequency

  Petfinder is a viable option but be aware that if one wants to adopt a puppy from a shelter in Virginia they can only get what is available at their local shelter or in the shelter of a bordering town.

 Um.....no, that's not true.... And I live in Virginia..  I doubt people would be  be willing to make the sacrifices needed over the course of a lifespan to actually own a dog if they won't drive more than thirty minutes to get one. Is it really that hard to drive a little? You aren't limited by what is within a 20 mile radius. You can adopt from all over the state, and in most/many cases from other states as well.

Many neighboring state rescues would also GLADLY set up transport for a dog, if you can't drive. We have transports come through all the time.

 If you don't see anything you're interested in at just the local pound, why not try a rescue in the next county? Ask other rescues about transport options? It's all doable, it just depends on a person's willingness to make the effort.

 

edited to add -- this is a collective "you" , not you in particular - didn't mean to sound accusatory :)

 

As I posted above if one is attempting to adopt from a county/city pound inthe state of Virginia they cannot adopt a PUPPY or any other UN-ALTERED animal if they do not live in or next to the city/county that the pound is located in!  That is covered in the Code of Virginia 3.1-796.96

Mark

I don't know of any rescues or shelters that adopt out unaltered animals, honestly. And I really don't see why you'd need one. You want to breed shelter dogs? That's a fantastic idea... <-- That was sarcasm, btw.

Every shelter and rescue I know of spays or neuters the dogs before they go home. That includes puppies.

Truley,

"And by proved, I too am not talking about the show ring, proved for my breed is shutzhund or herding, show ring last for me."

So if it is ok for you to decide that shulzhund or herding constitutues being "proved" why would it be wrong for someone else to decide that demonstating a suitable temperment to be a family pet constitutes being "proved"?

Mark

chelsea_b

I don't know of any rescues or shelters that adopt out unaltered animals, honestly. And I really don't see why you'd need one. You want to breed shelter dogs? That's a fantastic idea... <-- That was sarcasm, btw.

Every shelter and rescue I know of spays or neuters the dogs before they go home. That includes puppies.

Here they spay or neuter only those that are over 4 months old.  Not all of the pets that they adopt out are easily spayed or neutered, for example reptiles and birds.

Mark

Marklf

Here they spay or neuter only those that are over 4 months old.

Huh. I wonder why that is. All of my cats were spayed/neutered before 3 months, and at 11, 8, and 6 years old, I'm seeing no ill effects. My aunt's dog came from a shelter at 8 weeks, and was neutered there... no ill effects in him either.

Marklf

Not all of the pets that they adopt out are easily spayed or neutered, for example reptiles and birds.

Haha, okay, sorry. They don't adopt out unaltered dogs, cats, or rabbits. I don't know about anything else.

 Marklf, where in Virginia are you? I know about the unaltered business, but most/all shelters/humane societies/rescues fix the pups before even making them available (the exception being animal control and pounds which don't usually have the resources. I've never heard of an "only over 4 months" rule - maybe it is just once specific shelter? Odd