I cannot believe some people (aDork)

HoundMusic

My mother has a dog mixed with pit, and he has been known to get excitable & just turn around and attack me or my mother.

 

THAT dog should be put down. it has nothing to do with the PIT side of his mix. the fact that he is a mix should be a clue..... a true pit bull DOES NOT EVER BITE A HUMAN... even accidentally. 

...american bulldogs are a different story.... they are supposed to remove any threat no matter the species.. but they should never turn on their owner.. however i have seen one in particular get nasty towards one of his owners but that was because the man was being waaay too heavy handed with the dog. the dog feared for his life(he was being throttled for trashdiving) and defended himself with a snarl and snap. with this same dog and man he tried to hit his wife when he was having a temper tantrum and the dog went at him again... perhaps to protect her? they're divorced now... but there was a good sound reason for when Bo felt a need to use his teeth against "one of his own" .... i never did like that guy much anyway....

It is not the breed, it is the people

That's what I say...I don't believe any dog should have a 3 bite rule either, especially since after the first bite I'm sure the owners won't do much to help change the dogs issues and the dog will just go out and do it again.

     What about people who raise their dogs right, train them, never encourage aggression, and ensure the dogis socialized. Then when the dog is 5, 6, 7+ years old and has been reliabe it's entire life, never given the owner a problem, suddenly "turns" on another person? I have seen it happen many, many times. Friend of mine had a docile, sweet 8 year old male pit. He had been around other dogs, people. Was actually a very nice dog. One night, the owner was walking the dog across the street from my apartment, on a summer night, so I was out on the stoop with a few other residents of that building. The dog quite suddenly lunged & attacked an elderly woman passing by. She lived across the hall from me, and her son owned a pit bull, so I doubt she was afraid of the dog - but is always a possibility. It was a pretty bad attack and the owner lost control of her dog while it was occurring. It took two men and the owner of the dog to beat this dog off the poor woman. THIS WAS A DOG WHO WAS LOVED, WELL TREATED, PROFESSIONALLY TRAINED. I could go on, with probably half a dozen more attacks under similar circumstances. I don't blame the dog/breed when they are owned by thugs. Although you do have to consider that the majority of these dogs are BRED by thugs. People are going to the shelter to get one, raise it right, and have no idea of it's breeding. It's owner could have been just an irresponsible BYB or a thug breeding dogs for fight or guarding.
     I'm curious if anyone denies that these dogs are still, to this day, being bred for illegal or unsavory purposes? NOT trying to be devil's advocate, just genuinely curious if you discount that genetic factor and choose to only blame the dog's behavior 100% on how it was raised? IMHO, nature will override nurture 9 times out of 10.
     Like I said, I'm not for BSL in any way, shape or form. But doesn't anyone believe that the breed is inherently aggressive? How can anyone say that it's not the breed? Doesn't that imply that there is no real difference in temperament between a pit bull and most other dogs? That seems to be a very dangerous mindset, to me.

 Any breed can be bred to be aggressive if you cull and selectively breed... I bet there's more than one beagle that's given a nasty bite.  I know way too many nice pitties to be at all impressed by your stance, HM. 

To say

HoundMusic

How can anyone say that it's not the breed? Doesn't that imply that there is no real difference in temperament between a pit bull and most other dogs? That seems to be a very dangerous mindset, to me.

I actually see yours as the more "dangerous mindset", to color one breed as bad with one wide brush stroke is IMO much more dangerous. Essentially "labs (or breed of choice) won't bite... they aren't pits" is gonna get someone hurt.
 

In it's capacity for aggression, I don't believe there IS a great deal of difference between Pitts and other breeds (particularly other terriers).  I could give you the same stories about Jack Russels and Yourkshire Terriers - what singles out the Pit is his sheer size and strength.  It's not the aggression which is the problem, it's what the dog is capable of if he DOES become aggressive.  Their gameness, independence, toughness, and yes, aggression, are all predominantly TERRIER traits. 

I don't believe any dog should have a 3 bite rule either, especially since after the first bite I'm sure the owners won't do much to help change the dogs issues and the dog will just go out and do it again.

Really? Emma has a bite record. She bit my coworker, in the face, very seriously. There were several surgeries needed to mend her nose, and I'm sure she still doesn't look the same (I haven't seen her, she was about to be transferred to another store). It was NOT my fault, and I have done a LOT to prevent it from happening, again.  A LOT.

  

   I'm sure you've done EVERYTHING you could to prevent a bite. I don't doubt it wasn't your fault, either. Aggressive dogs can be controlled, not cured of aggression. I think you're one of the few responsible ones who actually took repsonsibility for the behavior. If you're keeping the dog controlled and away from the general public, she's your dog and if you feel she's safe & reliable with you, than you have every right to keep your dog. Let me tell you, I had a very human aggro GSD. She'd nipped and tried to bite, although it never turned into an attack, thankfully. She was muzzled 100% of the time in public, and I believe I was doing my responsibility. It's not so much that the dog has bitten - it's the circumstances of the bite and the way the owner deals with it that matter. I can understand the dog wan't feeling well, that doesn't excuse the bite however.

     That being said, if you want my honest opinion, if I was your co worker, and your dog had *attacked* me unprovoked, so seriously as to marr my apperance permanently, I would pursue the matter until the dog was taken away/euthanized. No dog is more improtant than a person, and if the dog does something like that ... let's just say if any of mine ever bit anyone like that, I would feel horribly for the person & my dog - but there would be no other choice for me than to euthanize the dog. While your dog was on meds, lots of other dogs have similar problems, are on prednisone, and don't act like that.

     BTW, someone mentioned that my mother's pit mix should be euthanized - I AGREE 100%  I do not feel she is safe with that animal in the house & feel his lack of predictability makes matters even more serious. She will not budge on the issue at this point. I have been speaking to a private trainer for months - she actually trained this dog and another one for us a few years ago. Has been very helpful to us and is supposed to be coming back for more training at the end of the month - I'm hoping she can talk some sense into my mother. Maybe that's why this is a sore subject for me. My mother is making a huge mistake keeping this dog. She's placing herself and other innocent people at risk ...

Sera_J

 Any breed can be bred to be aggressive if you cull and selectively breed... I bet there's more than one beagle that's given a nasty bite.  I know way too many nice pitties to be at all impressed by your stance, HM. 

To say

Doesn't that imply that there is no real difference in temperament between a pit bull and most other dogs? That seems to be a very dangerous mindset, to me."

I actually see yours as the more "dangerous mindset", to color one breed as bad with one wide brush stroke is IMO very much more dangerous. Essentially labs won't bite... they aren't pits, THAT is what's going to cause problems.
 

 

My little Lab mix has put more then one pit in it's place for being to snarky. These guys were OVER friendly and Maze snapped at them. The pits around here are properly taken care of and are just like the local mutts, labs and whatever...

Infact Maze is more likely to bite then these guys.. I agree that it is a dangerous mindset to paint all pit bulls with the same brush.. Cause in the end they are just a dog like any other... 

Sera_J

I actually see yours as the more "dangerous mindset", to color one breed as bad with one wide brush stroke is IMO much more dangerous. Essentially "labs (or breed of choice) won't bite... they aren't pits" is gonna get someone hurt.

 

    That's actually not how I view it. To clarify, I'm speaking about the ones who say it's not the breed, and view their pit bulls as any other breed. Well, they're not any other breed, and precautions must be taken. I don't want my dogs around pit bulls, yet I've had owners swear to me that their pits are friendly to dogs ... well, no. I don't care if they've never bitten before, they have such a high potential for dog aggression, I'd be crazy to take another dog near one. It's not that Pits are aggro, Labs are sweet, etc. Not the case at all. ALL dogs need to be trained, restrained, and controlled appropriately. I'd be more likely to trust my dogs with a Lab with no bite history, because the genetic temperament of the breed is a more friendlier nature. That's why we research breeds when looking for a pup. Certain breed have tendencies that cannot be trained away. All I am saying is that pits DO have the genetic tendency for animal aggression and it IS the breed when a pit attacks another animal. Shame on the owner for not controlling their dog, but it's even more dangerous when people deny pits are inherently animal aggro at all.

I believe it's not the breed, to my very core.

A dog is in fact a dog.... regardless of breed type.  A St. Bernard and a weim... a chi, a pit.  They are all dogs.  Yes dogs were bred for different purposes but to be so general as to paint an entire breed as "bad" is just not something I can stomach.  All dogs have teeth, all dogs can bite.  Not all pits bite, in fact it's one of Logan and Nikki's (who doesn't like big dogs as a general rule) favorite breeds to play with, they didn't get that way if they are constantly being bitten and attacked.

I won't be arguing this further as this subject is a very personal one and I get very upset that people aren't able to see the other side of a wonderful dog. And thus want to extinguish an entire breed.

So, I'm going to withdraw myself from this conversation since I already see it heading in a direction less open-minded than I am comfortable with.

HoundMusic, I have two amazing APBT's who are the loves of my life. I'm sorry you have had bad experiences with some pit bulls before but if you truly believe in what you are saying the I can only offer you sympathy for your poor poor unrealistic opinion. You are entiteled to your opinion because it will never come between the love I have for my dogs.

I wish you'd take the time to educate yourself on the breed itself versus the experiences you have had with irresponisble owners, then maybe you'd realize how silly and sad you seem to all of us.

 Responsible pit bull owners do not take there dogs to the dog park, LOL and if you are basing your opinion upon owners like that I dont blame your for not favoring the breed. I'm not here to change your mind but I can guarantee you I can give you some facts that will surprise you.......

 Also keep in mind you state opinion, I state facts. The simple fact that pit bulls are owned by irresponsible people is YOUR PROBLEM, not the dog.

Hellen Keller's favorite breed was the APBT because of their smarts and sensitivity to humans, she owned many

The American Temperment Society which is recognized by all major kennel clubs has found that the APBT scored higher then many family dogs including but not limited to the

Australian Shepherd, Beagle, Bichon Frise, Border Collie, Cavalier King Charles, and GOLDEN RETRIEVER.

Here why not check this out and explain to me how tis is all possible since you seem to be so educated on the breed and its nature.......

http://www.pbrc.net/poppysplace/heroicpitbulls.html

 

Lastly, Look at my family and my dogs and tell me they should be put down.......

 

 

 I didn't know that about Helen Keller! Hmm I should brush up on my history.. Lol.

Oh and AL.. If Rory ever goes missing.. I didn't do it...... Lol

HoundMusic

      But doesn't anyone believe that the breed is inherently aggressive? How can anyone say that it's not the breed? Doesn't that imply that there is no real difference in temperament between a pit bull and most other dogs? That seems to be a very dangerous mindset, to me.

 

Yes, the breed is 100% inherently aggressive towards other dogs and I agree that the potential for them to do harm is highly likely. BUT so are plenty of other dogs like Presa's, Rotties, and other problem breeds and when raised, trained, and socilaized appropriatly they live happy healthy lives. The difference is that PEOPLE have abused, exploited, and over-bred Pit Bulls so the occorance of terrible incidents is more common so the point I'm trying to make is that when someone like you cant see simple logic I get frusterated. Its SIMPLE math, there are more pit bulls in irresponsible hands then any other breed, thus they get into more trouble then any other breed. Does that make sense?

Pit Bulls serve as therapy/service dogs.  The Chako Rescue Association has Pit Bull therapy dogs in Texas, Utah and California.  Helen Keller even had a Pit Bull as her canine companion and helper. Cheyenne and Dakota are a team of hard-working Search-and-Rescue Pit Bulls in Sacramento, California.  They play an important role in their community by locating missing people in conjunction with the local Sheriff.  In their off-duty hours, they do charity work as therapy dogs.

Petey, the faithful dog on the TV show, The Little Rascals, was a Pit Bull.  He spent countless hours with children day after day and never hurt anyone.  He was one of the most intelligent Hollywood dogs of all time.

There are quite a few celebrities who have Pit Bulls as members of their family including:  Rosie Perez, The Crocodile Hunter, Judd Nelson, Usher, Alicia Silverstone, Cassandra Creech, Sinbad, John Stuart, Amy Jo Johnson, Linda Blair, Vin Diesel, and Bernadette Peters.

Pit Bulls are heroes!  America's first war dog was a Pit Bull named Stubby.  He earned several medals during World War I and was honored at the White House.  The Ken-L-Ration dog hero of 1993 was a Pit Bull named Weela.  She saved 30 people, 29 dogs, 13 horses and a cat during a flood in Southern California.  A Pit Bull named Bogart saved a four-year-old child from drowning in a swimming pool in Florida.  Dixie, the Pit Bull, was inducted into the Georgia Animal Hall of Fame after she saved some children from a Cottonmouth snake.

Pit Bulls are one of the most stable people-friendly dogs in existence. The National Canine Temperament Testing Association tested 122 breeds, and Pit Bulls placed the 4th highest with a 95% passing rate!

 Pitbulls were used on 9-11 as the SARS dogs

The APBT is the ONLY dog to grace the cover of TIME magazine 3 times

You are so not helping my resolve to not get an APBT until I move out of this house..  I never knew there was so much good publicity about the breed..I guess I need to do some more researching.. 

AL got it in one.... responsible pit owners DONT take their dogs to the dog park. they go out of their way to make damn sure their dogs arent put into positions that will cause conflict - even if their dog is just defending itself.

the other thing that doesnt make sense to say the breed as a whole is bad. thats as horrible as making a racial slur against blacks and mexicans. if i said something as audacious as all blacks are criminals and all mexicans are illegal aliens then i'd be run out of here on a rail.

just like you dont blame a child for being spoiled rotten and mean tempered you dont blame a dog for being aggressive and reactive. they arent born that way.... its more or less a case of "Product of the Environment" ....

if a dog is perfectly sane and normal for the first five years and suddenly snaps doesnt mean they ALL are going to snap. it means that one in particular should probably have a brain scan, have its eyes checked, or its bloodline examined a little more closely. there is always a reason for an attack, even if you dont see it. and its NOT always going to be "It was a pit bull! what'd you expect?!"

if pits and bulldogs are as bad as some like to believe then why havent there been more deaths? i mean the way these chumps are talking there should be an attack a day and at least four deaths in one week.....

i'm not seeing it.... and no my head isnt in the sand. 

For the one zillionth time.

Pitbulls (APBT and Amstaffs) were historically extremely SAFE and reliable dogs - with PEOPLE.

Fighting folk had zero tolerance for a dog that bit a handler, and dogs that did were usually killed on the spot. What you ended up with was a dog that had a high genetic load towards dog aggression, and a high genetic load against human aggression.

A well-bred, well-raised pitbull is one of the safest dogs out there, for people.

The reality is that pits and pseudo-pits have become the tough dog de jour. Some pits are being bred for human aggression. Some are being bred with poor temperaments. Many are being abused in the name of sport, or of making the dog tougher.

It is a perversion of the breed to allow or encourage aggression towards people. It totally disgusts me, and it is what is happening all around. Many so-called purebred pits had american bulldogs and mastiffs bred into the lines on the down low, to beef up the dogs. These "pitbulls" will have a higher tendency towards human directed aggression.

So I see both sides. Real pitbulls are great dogs. Many pit mixes are great dogs. But there are a lot of pseudo-pitbulls and pit mixes that are potential time bombs in the hands of the ignorant.

Notice: http://www.godfatherkennels.com/males.htm

Not ABPT's. Those are land hippos.

Hahaha. I'm not the only person to think of hippos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9nnF1AeY6A&feature=related