Coyote Attack

probe1957

DPU

I was able to successfully call off 3 Great Danes, a Hound, a retriever mix, and a Pittie mix. 

But not everyone has dogs as well trained as yours, Dave.  In fact, no one I know has dogs as well trained as yours.  Sometimes, you make me wonder if even you have dogs as well trained as yours.  ;)

Thats because people like yourself don't listen to me or dismiss what I have to say.   If only I was listened to.  My dogs are very well trained and that training is in line with my expectations of the dog.  I don't do a lot of behaviorial training but the ones I do I make them count.  Petro, my 162 lbs Great Dane only knows one command and that is COME.  That is all this particular dog needs to know.  The rest of his behaviors are acceptable to me.  He has even redefined the general commands I give to all the dogs.  For example,when I say HOUSE, meaning come into the house, all the other dogs come in but Petro takes that cue as I have to go pee and poop and then I come into the house.  Thats ok by me because while Petro is peeing and pooping, I do a chore and then go to the back door and there he is waiting to be let in.

I am glad that when I gave the COME command, all the dogs listened to me and went into the house.  You never know for sure what is going to happen in such a situation and it looks like I teach my dogs right.  And for the COME I always use affection, the most powerful reward there is.

corvus

Dogs will be dogs and coyotes - even the trespassing, dangerous ones - are coyotes and have a right to live like everything else (except Huntsman spiders, fleas, internal parasites, and cockroaches, in my books

But but but ...

I don't know that it makes sense to refer to a "right to live" when talking about wild animals.

Coyotes live by hunting and killing other animals. Who has the right to live, the coyote or the bunny? Nature is pretty fierce. Most wild animals don't die comfortable happy deaths, however they go.

I don't like death, and I especially don't like painful death, but nature is her own harsh mistress and she isn't a romantic.

I really admire coyotes. I also respect them, and occasionally fear them. I won't coddle them, encourage them, or befriend them. It isn't in THEIR best interests. If they are going to live successfully in proximity to people, they need to respect *us*. 

probe1957

DPU

I was able to successfully call off 3 Great Danes, a Hound, a retriever mix, and a Pittie mix. 

But not everyone has dogs as well trained as yours, Dave.  In fact, no one I know has dogs as well trained as yours.  Sometimes, you make me wonder if even you have dogs as well trained as yours.  ;)

I know this is a serious thread, but Billy, that gave me a much-needed chuckle!

AL, I hope that Rory & Primo are recovering well.

I, too, would have been proud of my dogs for defending their yard. The only things that I would have done differently had this happened to me, is that I wouldn’t have even tried to recall my dogs. I know my dogs well enough to know that if something is in their yard, it’s going to die. I also would have let them finished the coyote off, so that it didn’t suffer.

I commend you on how well you handled a very scary situation.

DPU

Thats because people like yourself don't listen to me or dismiss what I have to say.   If only I was listened to. 

You are omnipotent, Dave.  I am humbled in the presence of your greatness.

I have to say that your dogs and you handled yourselves in a commendable way.  I'm sorry that they are hurt but I'm sure that they will heal soon, as you will too.

 I have a love for Coyotes that exceeds even most bleeding hearts for the species.  However in this case, the Coyote was in the wrong place at the wrong time.  It happens.  Ever seen the video of the Coyote that stumbles across wolves in their territory?  I have.  It's sad, but the natural world itself is pretty sad at times.

Aurora, your Rory and Primo were doing the right thing in their minds.  To issue any sort of command is counter-intuitive in such a circumstance.  To say otherwise or to point fingers indicates a wish for a different outcome.  You have every right to be proud of your dogs and proud of yourself.

I hope they get better soon.

Dog_ma

I don't know that it makes sense to refer to a "right to live" when talking about wild animals.

Coyotes live by hunting and killing other animals. Who has the right to live, the coyote or the bunny? Nature is pretty fierce. Most wild animals don't die comfortable happy deaths, however they go.

The difference here is that both coyotes and bunnies are wild animals.  Dogs are domestic animals and are not a natural part of our ecosystem.  In this case it is a matter of self defense and has nothing to do with "nature" and I do not encourage my dogs to "hunt" wildlife.

I think I am the only one trying to convey to you to learn from your experience and prepared for the next encounter.

i have to agree with dpu here.... next time shoot the coyote the first time he comes into the yard instead of shooing him away. problem solved.

hope you pups heal quickly! :D 

jenns

Dogs are domestic animals and are not a natural part of our ecosystem.

If dogs aren't a part of our ecosystem, how can we say that we are? We are ALL a natural part of our ecosystem. 

In this case it is a matter of self defense and has nothing to do with "nature"

Again, I would have to disagree. Dogs, even though they are domesticated, have very natural animal tendencies. And for some breeds, especially, hunting is an instinct. Dogs have a prey drive. Some stronger than others.  

and I do not encourage my dogs to "hunt" wildlife.

That's understandable. I don't encourage mine to do it either. They do it "naturally".  

jenns

Dog_ma

I don't know that it makes sense to refer to a "right to live" when talking about wild animals.

Coyotes live by hunting and killing other animals. Who has the right to live, the coyote or the bunny? Nature is pretty fierce. Most wild animals don't die comfortable happy deaths, however they go.

 

The difference here is that both coyotes and bunnies are wild animals.  Dogs are domestic animals and are not a natural part of our ecosystem.  In this case it is a matter of self defense and has nothing to do with "nature" and I do not encourage my dogs to "hunt" wildlife.

Coyotes treat dogs like a part of their ecosystem. Cats too. I don't encourage my dogs to hunt wildlife. If I looked out the door and saw a coyote in my yard, I'd go out to chase it away and leave my dogs inside. I don't think letting a dog go after a coyote in its yard is the wrong choice - just not my first choice.

I live in the suburbs. Coyotes live here. Lots of 'em. Their ecosystem is the suburbs, and they come into yards to EAT. Domestic animals. Because they are easier to catch than bunnies. The coyote in AuroraLove's yard was not out for a morning stroll. It was looking for food. The situation became self-defense, but it didn't start that way.  

Dogs may be domesticated, but they have instincts. Nature doesn't go away just because an animal lives indoors and gets fed from a can. Rory and Primo were exhibiting a natural instinct to protect their social group and territory. They weren't encouraged. They weren't trained to hunt coyote.
 

jenns

Dog_ma

I don't know that it makes sense to refer to a "right to live" when talking about wild animals.

Coyotes live by hunting and killing other animals. Who has the right to live, the coyote or the bunny? Nature is pretty fierce. Most wild animals don't die comfortable happy deaths, however they go.

 

The difference here is that both coyotes and bunnies are wild animals.  Dogs are domestic animals and are not a natural part of our ecosystem.  In this case it is a matter of self defense and has nothing to do with "nature" and I do not encourage my dogs to "hunt" wildlife.

My question is: What exactly do you think the coyote was going into the backyard for? What was his purpose? Do you think he was ignorant that dogs lived there?  I really don't think you understand/take seriously that coyotes will go into a back yard and kill and eat a dog. Dogs are easy game. It's obvious you've never seen a JRT torn to shred in the backyard by a coyote. Or heard about 15 other stories exactly the same. The coyote knew there were dogs there. Period. He could smell them. He went in because it was an easy hit but ended losing the gamble.

jenns

Dogs are domestic animals and are not a natural part of our ecosystem.  In this case it is a matter of self defense and has nothing to do with "nature" and I do not encourage my dogs to "hunt" wildlife.

I am sorry but a domestic animal...IS a part of nature, and her world...every bit as much as a wild one. Because they are not running around loose, howling at the moon does not mean they are not also a part of, and subject to, the lifecycles of nature, and the instincts of their heritage.

The mosquito the flea and the fly ALL bite the dog the same as the coyote...the rabbit runs in fear from either...and packs of either can incite fear in most every species, including man...and the coyote could procreate with the dog if they desired it.

I certainly do not think of MY dogs as unnatural outsiders to Nature. They help me touch Nature everyday...and get me OUT in it everyday and they still hear the call...and they remind me to still listen for it, too!

Very scary experience!! I hope your dogs heal quickly and there are no complications!!! I too would be proud of them for protecting you and know mine well 2 of them at least would react the same....Best wishes!!

cyclefiend2000

I think I am the only one trying to convey to you to learn from your experience and prepared for the next encounter.

 i have to agree with dpu here.... next time shoot the coyote the first time he comes into the yard instead of shooing him away. problem solved.

 hope you pups heal quickly! :D 

I have no issue with that but I would use a bow and arrow.  Consideration for my dogs is most important.

FourIsCompany

jenns

Dogs are domestic animals and are not a natural part of our ecosystem.

If dogs aren't a part of our ecosystem, how can we say that we are? We are ALL a natural part of our ecosystem. 

We aren't, and I therefore do my best to reduce my impact on wildlife (i.e. not allowing my dog to hunt among other things)

In this case it is a matter of self defense and has nothing to do with "nature"

Again, I would have to disagree. Dogs, even though they are domesticated, have very natural animal tendencies. And for some breeds, especially, hunting is an instinct. Dogs have a prey drive. Some stronger than others.  

It is "natural" for the dog, of course, but not natural for the prey.  Domestic dogs are not a natural predator of any wildlife species.  If you study ecology you'll see that the populations of prey and predator are in a balance.  For example,  hawks are successful in my area due to the high rabbit population. If I let my dog run out and kill rabbits on the regular basis (and Zoe would if I let her, all 8 lbs of her!), the hawks would have to move on to find another food source.  The same reason that outdoor domestic cats are a huge threat on native songbird populations.  The population of the birds is kept in check based on the populations of their natural predators, which do not include cats, and cannot sustain their population with predation by introduced species (just one of many reasons I do not let my cats outside).

Just because the coyote was after the dogs does not mean the dogs are a natural member of the ecosystem.  Coyotes eat garbage and we all know that human trash is not!

 Anyway, this all really has nothing to do with the original post, was just reponding to a statement comparing it to predation amongst 2 species of wild animals, and the original post  as I stated was an act of self defense and it is a really sad story for all involved.  I really hope the dogs heal soon, both physically and mentally.