Coyote Attack

Does this have to be about argument or what was done right or wrong or anything else?  The animal that died was a coyote.  A pest.  A threat.  I'm just glad AL is OK and it looks like her dogs will be OK too, after a little TLC.  I'm also glad that we don't have coyotes round here I have have the luxury of judging AL's actions in total comfort and safety...

Really DPU, I appreciate your input, I realize it is a public forum and anyone can chime in but all of your responses are IDEALISTIC  which are not always reality.

You've done very well pointing out my idiocracies and faults during a time of extreme panic and chaos. The coyote DID advance upon us first, the coyote DID have the option to jump over the fence before my Primo made a move. I AM sorry about what happened to the coyote but if you cant get that the message that I and most of the other posters are trying to convey please stop turning my actual life events into a dispute or way to pass the time.

Not you or anyone will ever make me feel as if what my dogs did was wrong but that dosnt mean I allowed my dogs to attack a helpless animal or that I am joyful over the event. I have hardly eaten, my stomach is tied in knots and I'm scared to go in my back yard. My once happy go lucky Rory now cringes when I go to pet her for fear I will pet her wounds. Primo sticks to my side like glue now and jumps everytime he hears a noise outside. We'll get over it because we have eachother.......we'll get over it the same way we get over snide remarks from cowards who cant take the time to educate themselves of the breeed, the same way we got over using a prong or choke collar so they could walk nicely on leashes so the public will pet them more willingly, the same way we get over everything....without the help of stuck up rude know it all people. We'll do it out of love. Here is a poem a nice lady sent me. It helped put things in perspective for me and made it easier for snotty remarks to roll of my back. And no, its not a breed thing, its a loyalty and love thing and this poem could pertain to any loyal misunderstood dog.......

AuroraLove

Really DPU, I appreciate your input, I realize it is a public forum and anyone can chime in but all of your responses are IDEALISTIC  which are not always reality.

You've done very well pointing out my idiocracies and faults during a time of extreme panic and chaos. The coyote DID advance upon us first, the coyote DID have the option to jump over the fence before my Primo made a move. I AM sorry about what happened to the coyote but if you cant get that the message that I and most of the other posters are trying to convey please stop turning my actual life events into a dispute or way to pass the time.

I think I am the only one trying to convey to you to learn from your experience and prepared for the next encounter.  I would examine what happened and see what I and the dogs did right and see what I and the dogs could have done better.  You have enough posters here giving you comfort and saying you did everything right.  If the same thing happened tomorrow and you did the identical thing then you would again have a very rough experience and your dogs again would be injured. 

I have not commented on what you did or did not do, right or wrong.  I only commented on the COME command because I feel strong that this command is the life saver for every dog in any volatile situation and it should be 100% proofed.  I was lucky, my COME was proofed.  I also commented on the proud or no proud feeling (neutral), you own it and no one should try to convince you otherwise even though another is saying  they are standing up for you, they are actually not.  There is a difference from learning from experience versus learning from mistakes.   I propose the former.

The IDEAL resolve to any fight situation is to prevent it from occurring.  IMO, IDEAL is a great starting point because it sets goals.  The more  compromises from the ideal, the more risk of injury.

BTW, you are the only one bringing up a so called breed issue.

Thank you for your calm reply DPU. I understand that avoidance is the best key....thats why I risked getting hurt and checked the yard prior to letting them out.

I feel that the "come" command is the most valuable tool with a dog as well as you do HOWEVER in this freak incident when i yelled "come" my girl DID respond and got bit in the face for it. So I'm sorry if I was overly rude but I really think there isnt much more I could have doen besides jump in myself. Primo used amazing judgement giving the coyote time to exit, instead the coyote advanced. The coyote I'm sure did so out of panic but I cant blame Primo for advancing when he saw the coyote was headed in my general direction.

Thank you all for putting up with my extreme emotion. I'm on my way to have Rory's nose xrayed. Wish us luck!

 hey girl, i think you already know who is proud of YOU and your dogs. i know several people who would have wet themselves in this situation.... you did great and so did your dogs.
 

In all honesty, I would have wet myself AND run inside, leaving my dogs to hopefully deal with it effectively or... well, not.  Not proud of it, but I'm a gigantic chicken sh*t when it comes to wild animals, so sticking around probably wouldn't have been an option for me, especially in a chaotic and panicky situation such as this.  Your dogs are brave and better than me and I applaud them.   

AuroraLove

I'm on my way to have Rory's nose xrayed. Wish us luck!

Good luck to you! And hugs and kisses to Rory! (and Primo, too!)

BCMixs

In all honesty, I would have wet myself AND run inside

You might be surprised. When I discovered the aforementioned bobcat in my yard and I thought Cara and Mia might be outside, I ran through the house, screaming like a banshee and ran out there to face the cat and scared it away! I never would have thought I had the huevos to do that, but it came from somewhere. Maternal instinct, I guess... Turns out the pups were inside and my screams made THEM both wet on the floor! LOL

 Here there is land aplenty for the coyote to roam, and there exists a multitude of rabbits for them to feed off of, but the housing areas appeal to them, they can raid garbage cans, catch dogs and cats a lot easier than chasing rabbits and because no one shoots them or harms them they become very comfortable with this lifestyle and only when they have killed the wrong domestic animal or attacked someone’s child do the humans come out and act in a scary manner which normally ends in the death of a multitude of coyotes.

  My philosophy is simple. When I am out in their world I control my dogs, we do not offer chase to coyotes, we do not engage coyotes, we leave them be unless they threaten us, in my world when I see them near the house I will shoot them with a bb-gun, throw rocks and yes, if they are in my yard I will even set the dogs on them. Because it is in their own best interests to fear man, houses and dogs and to avoid them at all costs.

 We create the problems that we have with wild animals by taking our compassion and our desire to save them as a species and turning it into some unrealistic desire to never see them come to any harm no matter what.

 The grey wolves are another example, if they are going to survive as a species here in NM they must learn to avoid the ranchers and avoid taking livestock, the only way to teach them this is to make it painful for any who get near livestock and sometimes this will result in the death of a single animal.

 I truly think that many of the negative responses to the death of this coyote and the manner in which he dies are unrealistic. We will never live as friends and companions to the coyotes, the wolves, the bears and the pumas and the best we can hope for is to live in respect. A mutual respect with a healthy dose of fear thrown in from the animals perspective.

good luck with x-rays... and please keep us posted... i have been following this thread religiously...

lots of love from bailey and nelly being sent your babies' way...

dgriego

cat0

Agreed.  Coyotes do not take on dogs.  They are scavengers and small animal predators.  They generally move in the other direction.

BUT I keep my distance from the wildlife.

Wrong

  Numerous dogs have been killed by coyotes in my neighborhood. One neighbor found what appeared to be the paw of a rottweiler in his backyard, if it was not a rott then it was a large black and tan dog paw. A good friend lost his 2 year old neo mastiff to coyotes, she was able to kill 2 of them before they ripped her to pieces. Another neighbor recently lost a 10month old rott to coyotes. They ripped my neighbors cat apart within 15 feet of my dogs who went nuts but were unable to get to the coyotes because of our fence. Hektor hates coyotes with a passion.

 I run into coyotes all the time out walking and have had a few situations (when Hektor was small) that worried me. I have throw rocks at them and brandished sticks only to have them follow us from a distance (they do not do this anymore as Hektor is able to kill one very easy now). They have attempted to lure Gunnar off and my best guess is that they would have attacked him if successful. They do not do that anymore because they fear Hektor.

 They are not always afraid of people or dogs like they should be, I have had them sit outside my fence at night and stare at my dogs. They no longer do this since Hektor has had personal confrontations with them near the house twice now. If one comes into my yard my dogs will kill it and I will be cheering them on. I do not look to kill coyotes and try to live in harmony with them when in their territory but my yard is mine and I do not want them thinking it is anywhere that they need to be. The last one I saw near the house actually sat and watched me throw rocks and he sat just out of range. He did not seem in the least bit afraid of me or my rocks. Had it not been getting dark I would have released the dogs on him

 The OP may have made one mistake with these coyotes and that is in distracting her dogs. If I cannot stop the initial attack then I will not call my dogs while they are fighting with one, to do so can distract and put the dogs in a situation where they may receive an injury that would have been avoided if I had not distracted them.

 The OP did nothing wrong and is not gloating over the demise of the coyote, her dogs did a great job in defending their territory. Next time a coyote comes into your yard let the dogs do their thing and reward them for it afterwards.

 And no I do not hate coyotes but it is imperative that they know where they can and cannot go and my yard is off limits to them, they come in at their own peril and trust me, I will not be calling off my dogs.

 

after reading all posts I would like to add that there was danger to the OP in this situation, having a coyote trapped in a fenced yard causes danger, the animal cannot flee and feels inself threatened then it very well could attack the human. This should be obvious to anyone who even knows dogs and not coyotes. If you have a frightened dog that is cornered and feels threatened and cannot escape what happens? Well it is even more so for a wild animal since they know humans are bad, if they are cornered they can and will attack.

OP please give your dogs a nice treat for me, tell them it is from Donna. And tell them Hektor is very jealous as he often dreams of having one of the teasing coyotes jump his fence.

DPU

I only commented on the COME command because I feel strong that this command is the life saver for every dog in any volatile situation and it should be 100% proofed. 

Every dog?  Any volatile situation?  Sorry, but I can't buy that.  The statement is just too general.

Unless the dog can easily get to safety, it would often be foolish for the dog to turn its back on an attacker.  In fact, the COME command got Rory badly bit.

I agree that the COME command should be thoroughly proofed.  However, I don't believe that it can be 100% proofed with many dogs.  When in a serious fight, survival instincts will override human training.

Could the fight between the OP's dogs and the coyote have been avoided?  Once the OP and all three animals were in the yard, my conclusion is absolutely "NO" and the coyote made that decision.  Whether sick or on the hunt, the coyote made itself a threat instead of being fleeing prey.

When the coyote changed its mind and decided to flee, should the OP have been able to call off the dogs?  Maybe. 

Should the dogs have been called off at that point?  In my opinion, "NO".  Such a bold, dangerous, and injuried animal needed to be destroyed.  To make the death more humane if this happens again, I suggest that the OP have a gun handy (and learn how to use it).

I don't think the OP did anything wrong. Her dogs did what they were supposed to do and like many good dogs have gone back to being couch potatos once the threat is gone. We have coyotes around here.  A few make it to the freeway to meet destiny with a 40 ton rig doing 70 mph. Some people, especially those that live farther out, keep a scoped .243 handy to take care of coyotes that won't go away. It's nothing against coyotes. It's survival of the fittest, still.

AuroraLove....I just wanted to let you know I feel for you.  I can't imagine how you are feeling right now.  I can only imagine how scared you must have been. 

I think if I'd been in that situation I'd probably still be having nightmares.  I'm not saying that b/c I think anything wrong happened, I just know how I'd feel....scared that it happened, sad about the coyote, and probably awed by the abilities of the dogs.  I could never be a hunter and seeing dogs take on something like that would probably haunt me for awhile.  But that doesn't mean it's wrong, it just means it's not for me, I don't have the right personality or something for it.

{{{{Hugs}}}} for you and some extra pats for Rory and Primo.  Hoping for good X-ray results.

It's not a nice feeling when you find it hard not to hate a beautiful, wild animal - and all animals are beautiful in their own way. Rabid foxes, poisonous snakes, scary spiders, and crazy smart birds that follow me to nests to eat the babies.... I've been there and hated it.

I have also rescued wild animals our domestic pets are killing. Typically, they bite and scratch or they die in your hands. I haven't encountered anything dangerous enough to seriously harm me, yet (the dogs are a different matter), but I'd probably be in there getting bitten and dragging the dogs off anyway. But hey, that's me the zoologist and wildlife rescue wannabe. I at least vaguely know somewhere deep in my brain what I'm doing. And I get bitten anyway. I can't blame anyone for staying clear. They possess better sense than me.

Nonetheless, being the wildlife fiend I am, I can understand Kelliope's disgust, and share it on some level as well. The same way I was disgusted when Pyry nearly killed that baby blue-tongue a couple of weeks ago and when I rescued it blood poured out of its mouth and I thought I was going to have to kill it. I just don't like unnecessary animal deaths, and death by dog teeth is far from a nice way to go. I personally would go to pretty huge lengths to avoid such a thing, but again, that's me.

AL, this isn't a judgement on you or your dogs, just me expressing my feelings on dogs and wildlife. Dogs will be dogs and coyotes - even the trespassing, dangerous ones - are coyotes and have a right to live like everything else (except Huntsman spiders, fleas, internal parasites, and cockroaches, in my books ). It's a crying shame it happened, but Pyry kills lizards, rodents, rabbits, and birds if he can get them, and I still love him. It just makes me feel like crap, even though he isn't even my dog.

DPU

I was able to successfully call off 3 Great Danes, a Hound, a retriever mix, and a Pittie mix. 

But not everyone has dogs as well trained as yours, Dave.  In fact, no one I know has dogs as well trained as yours.  Sometimes, you make me wonder if even you have dogs as well trained as yours.  ;)