Coyote Attack

    • Gold Top Dog

    sorry but the reason the indians lost their land.... i should say ONE of the reasons... was they could not unite among themselves which was the invaders greatest advantage.. playing one tribe against the other.. i wouldnt compare animals to people, even if they are indians Big Smile  

     now back to being on topic... i am a huge fan of coyotes because of their ability to adapt. often times i feel if i were an animal i would be a coyote because i've had to adapt whether i wanted to or not. i think its ok to like coyotes and respect them but still want to keep them at a healthy distance. now if Old Man Coyote wants to close that gap then he'll do it at his own peril.... at least where me and my own are concerned.

    i'm  with Dg..... if a yote comes in my yard then he's puppy chow because i have life stock and children to protect. my prevention isnt a good recall but a good sound "siccem!" i know my dogs will come back when i tell them to. but in situations of wild/feral predators we're standing beside each other keeping an eye on toddlers and baby goats. its pretty wild where i life..... even if the local gov. wants to deny it... i cant begin to express the awe and primal fear i had when the sun was blocked out by the shadow of a BALD EAGLE flying over my house a few weeks ago..... i didnt know whether to grab my kids or my camera.... i kept repeating "eagles dont hurt people! they're harmless!" while still feeling nervous until it was gone. my poor ducks wouldnt come out from under the grape vine!

    • Gold Top Dog

    Ok, I am the first dog owner to admit that my dogs are not always watched over......how can that be....hmmmm, I am the person who has spent tons of money( including DH) on serious fencing ......6' chain link and 6' wooden privacy fence.....there are several decks to get comfy on with roofs.....and a doggie door.....all my dogs have access to outside 24/7, until the weather turns bad.....so, if there was a bad situation I would have to adjust based on the situation at hand........

    • Gold Top Dog

    Snownose, I like your sig.  It says what I think....a civilized approach is needed here.

    • Gold Top Dog

    sorry but the reason the indians lost their land.... i should say ONE of the reasons... was they could not unite among themselves which was the invaders greatest advantage.. playing one tribe against the other..

    No, the reason they lost their land was that the whites were oh-so-willing to DO such a thing to get the land.  Lack of unity is just lack of unity, but stealing is what was perpetrated on all those nations by the whites, who should have been ashamed of their selfish arrogance, land grabbing, and lack of tolerance for the native way of life that existed in a land that they invaded.  Blaming the loss of land on the natives is like blaming a rape victim for her attack.  Even if many nations united, could they have mounted a war that would win against the modern weapons financed by the United States government?  I will concede, however, that the government is still in the business of dividing native people (and part native people) against one another.  But, back to the topic at hand...

    I do not see coyotes as evil.  They are just predators in the ecosystem.  It's my job to be wary and try to protect my family and my dogs from harm. but that does not extend to wanton killing.  Certainly, in any situation where there is a direct threat, I would act.  But, if there is no immediate threat, then frightening the animal off is enough for me.  What people often don't realize is that when you kill a coyote, you may actually be opening up the territory for MORE family groups to take up residence.  So, in most cases, it may be more prudent to simply act in ways which deter them coming too close to human habitation, rather than trying to eliminate them.
     

     

     


     

    • Gold Top Dog

    spiritdogs

    No, the reason they lost their land was that the whites were oh-so-willing to DO such a thing to get the land.  Lack of unity is just lack of unity, but stealing is what was perpetrated on all those nations by the whites, who should have been ashamed of their selfish arrogance, land grabbing, and lack of tolerance for the native way of life that existed in a land that they invaded.  Blaming the loss of land on the natives is like blaming a rape victim for her attack.  Even if many nations united, could they have mounted a war that would win against the modern weapons financed by the United States government?  I will concede, however, that the government is still in the business of dividing native people (and part native people) against one another.  But, back to the topic at hand...

    I do not see coyotes as evil.  They are just predators in the ecosystem.  It's my job to be wary and try to protect my family and my dogs from harm. but that does not extend to wanton killing.  Certainly, in any situation where there is a direct threat, I would act.  But, if there is no immediate threat, then frightening the animal off is enough for me.  What people often don't realize is that when you kill a coyote, you may actually be opening up the territory for MORE family groups to take up residence.  So, in most cases, it may be more prudent to simply act in ways which deter them coming too close to human habitation, rather than trying to eliminate them.

     

     

    Well said Anne.  Both parts. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    One last moderator request to STAY ON TOPIC...

    Very simple...remain on topic which is not Native peoples, bows and arrows, or dog training. TAKE IT TO ANOTHER THREAD. Further off topic and responses to off topics are subject to edit.

    • Gold Top Dog

    i just want to please say this.  this woman posted a thread about her puppies protecting her and themselves and their property and posted pictures of her poor hurt babies and this turned into a huge debate... i seriously don't see how some of you can't just support her and wish nothing but the best for her babies... instead of preaching on mother nature...

    man.... Indifferent

    aurora - girl!! you got my PM and please keep us posted on your babies... so glad to hear the good news and please keep us updated and of course - i am sending more love from bailey and nelly!!!!! lots and lots of it...

    us bully moms stick together Stick out tongue

    • Gold Top Dog

    amen!

    sorry, i didnt see this earlier. i think i would have done the exact same thing.

    good to hear your dogs are recovering. wish you all the best and hope you dont get any more coyotes. how scary!

    • Gold Top Dog

     well my witty come back has been officially snuffed but so be it, however i did specify it was only one of the reasons.. like it or not Big Smile ......

    i've already said it several times but i'll say it again: i'm happy ALs dogs are doing better - mild embarrassments aside - and i hope those pesky coyotes stay out of her yard in the future!!

    • Gold Top Dog

    I, too, am glad your pups seem to be well on their way to recovery.  I have a co-worker who let his french bulldog out-only to hear it screaming a minute later.  He ran out, but it was too late.  A pack of coyotes were running off with the remains of his dog, with two males challenging his efforts to get to his pup.  He was too late and still has nightmares over it.

    • Gold Top Dog

    AuroraLove, When do you expect to get the results of the rabies test?

    • Gold Top Dog

    Wow!  I am glad Rory and Primo are ok.  I have always admired Rory from afar, I hope she gets to feeling better. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    dgriego
    corvus
    I'm all for trying to help wildlife live alongside us. You won't be helping much if you feed them and they come to rely on you, but equally, shrugging and saying "it was in my yard and it needs to learn to respect me and my dogs" doesn't help much either, especially when the thing has just died a traumatic and unnecessary death.
      It is not about the coyote respecting me or my dogs it is about him respecting mankind as a whole and our domestic animals as a whole.Is it not worthwhile for the coyote to respect man and to fear him? Had this respect and fear been instilled into the coyotes would some of this have been avoided? You sympathize with the coyote that is ripped apart by dogs, is there also room for sympathy for the child who is attacked by coyotes?http://www.varmintal.com/attac.htmhttp://tchester.org/sgm/lists/coyote_attacks.html

     

    See, that's exactly what bothers me. Yes, there is room for sympathy for the kids as well as the coyotes, as well as the dogs. I have all the room for all the sympathy in the world. In a hopeless situation where there is no possibility for resolution, I do the best I can to minimise damage in my neck of the woods.

    In the Top End where crocs turn up in people's swimming pools during heavy rain, there are a list of things everyone gets taught about sharing an environment with an apex predator that can and will kill an adult human and eat them, let alone domestic pets. Stick by those rules and you're unlikely to have any problems. They still pull a hundred crocs out of Darwin harbour every year, and they all end up as leather and burgers, but live and let live. They target the big ones because you can't have crocodiles that large hanging out in capital cities. They have dingos eating their pets up there, too. Same thing. You take precautions if you care enough. Doesn't mean you have to throw rocks at every crocodile or dingo you see. You just have to be sensible and accept that they live there too. Oddly enough, they don't do a thing about the dingoes. Guess they have their hands full with the crocs.

    My point is, live and let live. Like I said before, it's not like I haven't had conflicting emotions about animals before. But that doesn't mean I have to pick a side and declare war. Coyotes do what coyotes do. Just like crocs do what crocs do. We humans are intelligent and compassionate enough to understand that and accept it, but we so rarely do. We just want our safe bubble where nothing threatens. I am so not interested in hearing all the stories about how evil and cunning and dangeous coyotes are. The coyotes aren't the problem. They've always been that way and who can blame them? It's what they do. If you want to live in the desert, you gotta accept the associated dangers. Just like when I lived in the Top End for a few months, I stayed out of the water, covered up when the mosquitos were out, and took responsibility for my hydration. And when I lived in Mexico for a few months, we took care not to attract bears and kept out of the way of the rabid foxes.

    I can't know what will happen to an animal after I let it go on its way. All I can do is guard its safety while it's in my world and hope it doesn't come to grief at some point. When it comes down to it, I could never bring myself to make a violent action towards an animal unless an attack was underway. It's a slippery slope, and it does things to people that I don't like. I've seen it happen and I loathe it. Hating a wild species for being good at living is wrong and that's what my moral compass tells me. End of story. I won't deliberately set out to run over feral species on the road, and I'm sickened by the way people think it's okay to torture a cane toad because we're all taught they're very bad. I consider paint balls and rock salt torture. Sorry.

    ETA, AL, this tirade has nothing to do with your situation. It sucks what happened, but you did what you could and that was more than some would have. I've had animals die in my hands and felt responsible in the past. It's not an easy thing to deal with. I know other people that take it harder than I do and are blue for weeks. These things happen. Fact is, it's easier to love your dogs after they kill a wild animal than to love the wild animal after it kills your dog. I'm glad you weren't faced with the latter scenario! 

    • Gold Top Dog

    corvus
    Hating a wild species for being good at living is wrong and that's what my moral compass tells me. End of story.

     

     Never said I hated them, in fact I think I said that I like and respect them, I enjoy their song at night and I enjoy seeing them in their home, I just draw the line at allowing them to be comfortable in mine.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Sera_J
    I'm surprised that this thread has turned into such a discussion on what she did wrong.

    Really?  I'm not surprised at all.  This forum is full of negativity.  Thank goodness there is somewhat of a balance; in that there are many with positive and neutral things to say and offer.

    AL, what a sweet picture of you and your babies.  You are a great model of a Pittie owner.  Sending you lots of healing vibes....you'll get through this just fine.

    Someone said that they had concern about future behaviors towards dogs as a result of this experience.  I agree with that and you might want to make some arrangements for "booster" socialization.  Play dates with existing friends, maybe.  More desensitizng...you know what I mean?