Rattlesnakes! Close call...

kelliope

 had the heebie jeebies the whole time - like when you think there's something under your bed so you leap onto it. Or maybe that's just me... 

 Well when it comes to rattlesnakes is one of the nicest things about them is they will often warn you via rattle before attempting a bite.  I can see why you would be worried with your little chi's.  They are the size of rattlesnakes prey items and a bite would probably take them down very quick.  I've never heard of rattlesnake vaccine but I would be worried about side effects.  Perhaps you could do a little aversion training with them about avoiding snakes?  I've seen wildlife groups before when trying to prep animals they plan to release try to train them to fear certain dangerous creatures such as snakes.  Maybe you could even get a rattlesnake tail rattle and train them to avoid that sound and immediatly come to you.  Most importantly I would do a little rattlesnake research on what to do to avoid and do when hiking in rattlesnake territory.

 Overall, I would say try not to freak yourself out too much.  Keep in mind that this was the first wild rattlesnake you've ever seen.  It also did exactly what it was meant to do and you and your dogs got away safely.
 

I was on the trail this morning and my dog dove after a lizard and I thought, we're coming up on rattlesnake season and I'll have to be careful soon.  Thanks for knocking it into my head.

If it makes you feel any better, I'd reckon that you'd have time to get your dog to the vet if one got bitten by a rattlesnake. Snake bites are really variable. The most common snake in my part of the world is the Eastern Brown, which is the second most deadly land snake on Earth. To make it worse, they are nervy and unpredictable. Supposedly, a brown snake bite can kill an adult human in 30 minutes. However, in practice, I've heard of a lot of cases where people have been bitten and not got medical treatment for several hours. And I know of dogs that have been bitten and have not been treated until an hour or more after getting bitten and still come through, a couple of thousand dollars and a week in hospital later. From what I know of rattlesnakes, the venom is not a neurotoxin like that of Australian snakes, and it works by breaking down tissue. So it looks revolting and terrible, but it's not as dangerous as a strong neurotoxin, which stops the animal from breathing. As far as I know, it doesn't work as quickly as a strong neurotoxin, either.

Also, a snake can bite and not envenomate. That means your dog can get chomped on, but not poisoned. Some species hardly ever envenomate, some do a good job of it. Over here, the brown snakes often bite so fast they don't deliver a lot of venom. Their strategy is to hit fast, then let go and stay clear. They have incredibly effective venom and don't need to deliver a large dose. On the other hand, tiger snakes take a bit more provocation to bite, but when they do they often give you enough venom to require 5 vials of antivenom.

Finally, you'd be surprised how slow a snake can be if they haven't been sitting in the sun for the last few hours. You can judge how warm a rattlesnake is by how fast it rattles. If you have the presence of mind. I have seen snakes striking repeatedly at dogs and the dogs cheerfully dancing out of the way. Even the time I saw my mother's dog riling up a tiger snake that we found sunning itself, the snake reared up and tried to strike but missed the dog. I got him away by running away from him. The snake was very peeved.

When it comes down to it, my advice is the more you know about the snakes in your area the better. As a zoologist in a country full of very poisonous snakes, knowlege is power. Know your snakes, know how to treat a bite. I keep an elastic bandage on me for treating snake bites whenever I go into the field, no matter the season. I know to avoid turning over rocks or logs (unless I'm actually looking for snakes). Over here, though, spring is when you see the snakes, and you see them out on paths sunning themselves. If given a chance, they usually get out of your way. I have been known to stamp my way through likely snake spots. I'm also blessed with a dog inherently nervous about snakes. She won't go near them. You're lucky your snakes give you warning!

Oh, and incidentally, I've only seen one wild rattlesnake, and it was VERY warm. When it rattled, it sounded more like an extremely loud insect buzz than a rattle. You can bet I let that one alone, even though I'm hopelessly curious about snakes and always go oggling them and such. Wish I had such a good way to judge how warm and cross our snakes were.

Oh my goodness Kelliope, I myself got the heebie jeebies when I read your post.  That must have been the most frightening thing ever...especially since you have been thinking about coming across one.  Scary!

We don't have rattlesnakes in my neck of the woods (that I know of).  We have copperheads, corals and cottonmouths (which are nasty, aggressive snakes).  We've had experiences with each of these and more in my semi-rural neighborhood.  I can't tell you how many times my Buddy has killed copperheads.  I keep Benedryl on hand at all times just for the occassion.  As long as he doesn't get bitten on the chest, neck or tongue,  I give him his Benedryl, clean the bite area and send him on his way.  I do watch it for infection however.

You might really want to look into snake aversion training...I'm sure you can find a trainer in your area who offers it.  Might be worthwhile.

Wow, what an experience for you...that was too close for comfort.

What is weird is that my dogs are both TERRIFIED of snakes naturally.  We came across a dead one in the road one day and from way back they were spooking like horses!  They wouldn't go up to it at all.  Same thing when we came across another dead one on a trail one day.  But she didn't even see this one, nor did I.  Since we were in a bathroom my guess is (as gross as it is) that there were lots of smells and she didn't smell it or see it.  I know I didn't until I heard the chhh, chhh, chhh.

I am reading all I can about these critters and have a call in to my vet about the vaccine.  My understanding is that dogs that survive multiple bites often become immune to the venom, so I am guessing the vaccine works in a similar fashion.

It's good that your dogs are scared of them. IME, snakes have quite a strong, musky smell. Enough that you could tell if a cotton bag had had a snake in it recently if it had been clean beforehand.  

I don't know much about snake aversion training. Most dogs I know of that have been bitten by snakes didn't know they were there. I have known dogs that think snakes look like a lot of fun to play with, though. In those cases, I think a good recall or leave it is what you really need. Penny has only come across a snake on her own once, and she stood back and alarm barked at the wee little thing until I came out and let her come inside. It's very uncommon even at home on a large, snake-friendly block to find one in the yard or near the house. They generally don't like human activity around them. Snakes like rubble and debris on the ground they can hide under, especially things like iron sheets that warm up real quick. Without those shelters around, snakes have got nowhere to hide out for the large amounts of their time in which they are doing precisely nothing. 

ugh. I hate rattlesnakes! At least they are loud. I would have never though it would be so loud until I heard it myself.

There is one trail around here that I wont even walk anymore because it is so full of them. Whats worse is Salem wants to go after them. I know a lot of the time when they bite they wont release venum, but I still don't want to take any chances.

You might want to tell someone at the park about the one in the bathroom if you haven't already so they can get it out before anyone gets hurt.

i think the length of time it takes for death to occur depends greatly on how much the victim panics..... people have been reported to die from non-venomous snakes simply by scaring themselves to death.

i've done a great deal of reading on reptiles over the years but one thing i remember is there is a lot of psychology involved. one author of a book (Crompton i think) noted in one chapter the power of suggestion. supposedly in some third world country they took a condemned man from prison (as a test subject) told him his death sentence was to be by bleeding to death. they blind folded him, then scratched his neck with something dull and then poured warm water down his neck - and he died. so its no wonder at all, to Crompton or to me, that someone could die in a matter of seconds when bitten by any kind of snake, especially a poisonous one!!

i would be more concerned about small dogs and snake bites.... but i have also heard of chihuahuas surviving being bitten several times. Kaydee had a close call two years ago when we first moved out here. she was barking like she was angry at something while everyone was outside - i looked in her direction but didnt see anything... told her to hush and lie down.. nope. she insisted. finally i decided to go see what she was on about. she was barking at the ground so i figured she either had found a turtle, rat, possum, or maybe an army of ants had stolen her snack (its happened before and the dogs barked the same way!) when i got there i saw a HUGE annoyed rattler coiled up next to my husband's workshop. obviously it had come to our property because we had baby chickens and other small animals and eggs...... this one turned out to be six feet and very well fed!

one last thing - did you notify anyone of the snake being in the bathroom?  

I read about a Chi living after being bitten by a snake, but mine is only 3 lbs!  I asked my horse vet (who also shows dogs) and she didn't think she would live long enough to make it to the car if the snake really bit her with venom.

 I did look for a ranger, but couldn't find one, so I told two people in the parking lot.  I know it was bad, but it was super hot, I couldn't leave the dogs in the car to find a ranger and I just wanted to get OUT of there!  The snake wasn't trapped in the bathroom (the walls start about 2.5 feet off the ground) and my guess is he didn't hang around long.