dogs that don't require a leash

As per the thread title - Dogs that don't require a Leash.

There are dogs (although few) that actually don't require a leash. I have seen them in my own neighbourhood. One gal I have known for years always walked her standard poodle on leash until it developed a very serious problem with it's neck that required extensive and expensive surgery. After the surgery she restricted her dog walks to off leash areas and worked extremely hard training her dog to walk off leash with the same, if not more control than if she were on leash. When she was confident in her dog, she started walking her in public parks (still away from traffic) where leashes were required. Unless you were walking right beside this lady you would swear her dog was leashed. It walked in a perfect heel 100% of the time. When the owner stopped the dog immediately sat. It was quite amazing to watch. Nothing distracted this dog. Kids, other dogs, squirrels - nothing! After about 2 years she incorporated street walking. She has never had a problem with her dog or complaints from anyone she's encountered. To be honest most people don't even realize there is no leash. The only real danger she faces is the chance of being find by the authorities. This is a risk she accepts and is willing to take - according to her.

Similarly, when we first moved into this neighbourhood about 25 yrs ago before leash laws, there was an elderly gentleman that lived around the corner from us but on the same block. He owned a lovely Golden who in dog years appeared to be the same age as her owner - old! Every morning around 10 o'clock, the gentleman would open his front door to let his dog out for her daily walk. Slowly and calmly the dear old thing would circle the block all by herself. People on the street would wait for her. Some gave her treats or pets, while others just watched her make her rounds. The owner always waited on the front steps for her to return, gave her ears and good rub and they both went back inside. 

So I guess you might say that both of these owners had a "me first, screw the rest of the world" attitude, but I personally have no problem with their dogs being off leash nor does anyone who actually has had contact with them even though they are breaking the law.

mudpuppy

they have dozens of leashed-dogs areas they can go to

And that is exactly what I'd calmly tell her.  That the area is DESIGNATED for OFF-LEASH dogs.  Then I'd tell her that there are many leash required areas she could take her dog to if she'd like, but you'd appreciate her not spoiling the off-leash areas for those that are using it as it was intended.

 However, please bear in mind that the exact same thing happens in reverse far more often.  People go to leash only areas only to have their dog rushed by an out of control off leash dog with an idiot owner who thinks the rules don't apply to them.

Use the areas as they were designated to be used.  Then no one should have a problem.

 Sorry denise m, but that argument doesn't really work - the dog with the neck problem?  The owner could easily tie a string to the dog if it remained in heel.  Then technically the dog would be "leashed".  And the guy who lets his dog walk the block by itself?  Well, there are many people who don't appreciate someone's dog crapping in their front yard.  The guy and his dog are lucky he doesn't have  a vengeful neighbor.

Bottom line is that I'm sure most dog owners do not really have a problem with unleashed dogs within their owners control.  I know I really don't.  But as I said before, it's the people thumbing their nose at the rules or those that THINK their dog is within their control, when in fact the dog is rude and totally out of control, that are ruining it for the rest of us who are courteous and try to get along with society.

But now that I've posted, I'm sure the whole thread will turn around into how I'm wrong and unleashed and disregard for the rules is the way to go.

kelliope

mudpuppy

they have dozens of leashed-dogs areas they can go to

And that is exactly what I'd calmly tell her.  That the area is DESIGNATED for OFF-LEASH dogs.  Then I'd tell her that there are many leash required areas she could take her dog to if she'd like, but you'd appreciate her not spoiling the off-leash areas for those that are using it as it was intended.

 However, please bear in mind that the exact same thing happens in reverse far more often.  People go to leash only areas only to have their dog rushed by an out of control off leash dog with an idiot owner who thinks the rules don't apply to them.

 there are many people who don't appreciate someone's dog crapping in their front yard.  The guy and his dog are lucky he doesn't have  a vengeful neighbor.

Bottom line is that I'm sure most dog owners do not really have a problem with unleashed dogs within their owners control.  I know I really don't.  But as I said before, it's the people thumbing their nose at the rules or those that THINK their dog is within their control, when in fact the dog is rude and totally out of control, that are ruining it for the rest of us who are courteous and try to get along with society.

 

 

1. yep i would have to tell her to go where she and her leash reactive dog belong.... or better yet find another park.

a man i know just had to pay a vet bill to sew up his staffy's eye because a woman with three offleash westies attacked. she gathered up her dogs and gave him a dirty look and denied her dogs meant any harm what so ever. after she left he discovered his dog was bleeding.

if it had been the other way around his dog would have been labeled pit bull, quarantined, then put to sleep for being vicious, then the owner would have been fined billions of dollars for owning a dangerous out of control animal. now thats just not fair is it?

 

2. nope and my dad, brother, uncles, and inlaws are those people. my dad wouldnt have a problem with "dealing" with a troublesome dog. he loves dogs... that is... he loves his OWN dogs. but everyone elses dog can go to hell in his mind. and my sisters uncle has shot dogs with pellets or 22 rounds because they just STEPPED on his lawn. he's afraid one day some big stray will eat his little llahso apso.... why doesnt that jerk just fence his yard in? jeez.. the nerve!

and no i dont have a problem with an offleash dog WITH its owner - or without- as long as that dog behaves and stays away. i would rather get in trouble for kicking the crap out of a charging dog than have MY dog get into trouble for 1. being a bulldog 2. being a bulldog that got into a fight 3. probably mortally wounding an overzealous "friendly" dog that hasnt learned how to properly greet other animals. i have a zone around myself and my dogs that people and other animals do not enter... and that zone is the length of my leash or the reach of my foot. i dont mind calm dogs approaching with wagging tails... neither do the bullies... but we DO mind charging, running, fixated,  stiff tailed dogs that feel a need to assert their authority.

 

THANK GOD we live in the country and i have access to acres and acres of wilderness. we dont have these problems anymore!!
 

Glenda, I agree very much about the "screw the world" attitude. How people feel is important to me. If I am walking my leashed dogs, and someone on the sidewalk or path looks uncomfortable with dogs, I make sure to give them plenty of room. If visitors come to my house who are afraid of dogs, the dogs are crated or out in the yard. None of this has anything to do with the law. It is about respect and consideration.
 

kelliope

And by basically thumbing your nose at the laws put into effect to protect other creatures, you are in fact causing the rest of us to be banned from bringing our well-behaved (and leashed if required) dogs.

 

I disagree that I'm thumbing my nose. But seriously - you never ever, ever break any laws? Jaywalking, speeding, slowly rolling at a stop sign? Riding a bike and not following all the rules of the road? I am a pretty law-abiding citizen. I'm not an anarchist, a criminal, or a rebel. I almost never have my dogs off lead, and I could easily live without ever taking them off lead improperly. I have had frequent problems with out of control off leash dogs in leash-only areas. I understand the problems that unleashed dogs cause, and I avoid certain parks at certain times because of unleashed and out of control dogs. My husband gets to hear me ranting and raving. :P

And I am still going to say that IF a person has an exceptionally well trained dog, who bothers no one and causes no problems, I do not care if he or she walks that dog without a leash. Frankly, those people are rare. As far as I'm concerned, if your dog is under control, the law is between you and Mr. Police Officer.

DumDog

and my sisters uncle has shot dogs with pellets or 22 rounds because they just STEPPED on his lawn. he's afraid one day some big stray will eat his little llahso apso.... why doesnt that jerk just fence his yard in? jeez.. the nerve!

 

 

Isnt your sisters uncle your uncle too? LOL

 

If i had big strays entering my yard you could bet your life that i would put up a fence to protect my dogs!If other dogs can get in then whats stopping their dogs getting out? This is  a mute point with me anyway,as firstly i would never live in a house without a fenced yard,and i would never own dogs if i didnt have fences.  Shooting dogs is an utterly reprehensible,unforgivable act IMO,you see it regularly on animal cops,These poor innocent dogs with stupid irresponsible owners who let them roam loose,they get shot by a gun happy troll because they inadvertently wandered into their "unfenced" yard and then wander off to die alone and in pain.

Dumdog this is the last question of yours i am going to answer,as i feel my posts are riling you up just as yours are doing to me... And to carry on tit for tat is just completely pointless. So in answer to your question of breeds i own..Bullmastiff's.

When my sons were both really little, we lived in an apartment that was sort of basement....about four steps down to my level. As I was standing in the hallway one day chatting with a neighbor, his wife came in with their "trained guard dog" gsd, who flew down the stairs and attacked me. Badly. I've had plastic surgery on that shoulder and you can still find the scars. This dog was leashed. For a very long time, I was very afraid of gsds, or any large dog. For months, until we were able to move out of that apartment, I put my sons out on the patio and then lifted them up to the ground and had them wait while I got up the stairs to them, so as not to chance that dog getting to them. I was quite literally terrified of that dog and feared that he would kill my children. So having had that experience, I do understand people being afraid of dogs, and no matter the reason I won't let my dogs frighten people. That means that I give them wide berth on trails or streets and that I don't let them off leash unless I'm very sure that we won't encounter people. Yes, of course my dogs get some off lead time every day, but even on their 50 foot drag lines they get a ton of exercise, and if that's my goal, well then, I'm accomplishing what I set out to accomplish. Even when OFF lead, my dogs rarely take off at a full run. They do the back and forth trot and while some are more confident than others, basically, they don't like to get too far from me. And since I don't run, they would rather not really truly run either. It IS about respect and consideration.

 Just out of curiosity can you explain/describe how you use the long drag lines? Do you actually hold the lines or do the dogs drag them with the length allowing you to grab them when need be. I've only seen these lines being dragged where I go. I know if I had Kobi on a 50ft lead I would not be able to hold him if he decided to take off. I'd be water skiing on grass I'm afraid.

Gosh,  I did reply to this earlier and don't know why it didn't post.

When we leave the RV the dogs have about 10-15 feet of line.  As we get further away and turn the corner towards the far back of the park, I gradually feed out more line.  By the time we get to the back of the park, they've got all 50+ feet and once we hit the trails, I let it drop and drag  Coming back it's just the reverse.

When I pick up or shorten a line, I let them know "short line" or "I'm holding the line now" and the second they feel the least bit of resistance on the line, they stop and come running back to me.

Every one of my dogs could indeed drag me all over.  They don't.  They've learned that really good things happen to puppers with good leash manners.

This morning, just as we were coming up over a hill to the paths, I let Thor go.  He saw the pheasant before I did and took off after it.  I didn't even need to shout, just called out "Thor, leave it" and he froze mid-step.  We haven't seen any wildlife all winter, so I was really pleased to see that he's remembered his lessons so well without the chance to practice!

mudpuppy

I do see Edie's point, though- let's say you have gone to a deserted field for the past twenty years and played off-leash fetch with your dogs, bothering no one. And one day you show up and there is, inexplicably, a Leashed Dogs Only sign. What what you do? Go dump your big dogs at a shelter because you can't exercise them anymore? attempt to win the lottery so you can buy property? or guess what most people would probably do- ignore the sign.

 

Or, you could be a little creative, do a little leg work, and find another place to take your dogs.  Surely it is not the only open field in the world.  

Perception is reality.  Your dog may be the best behaved dog with a 110% recall, but someone else using that space does not necessarily know that.  There are many people who are very unnerved by large dogs, that is just a fact of owning them.  Heck, I have people look suspiciously at Jack and walk waaayyy around us when he is on leash at a heel, and he is a 60 lb chocolate lab.  Such people don't see a well trained, off leash large dog--they see a lady with "HUGE" dogs that she just lets "RUN WILD" and "someone is going to get hurt one of these days."  

So, if you continue to have you unleashed dog in an area where you are asked to leash, and people see that, eventually someone is going to complain enough and the area will prohibit dogs all together.  In the end, people who insist on consistently breaking leash laws, regardless of how well trained their dog is, are very often the excuse a town council needs to ban dogs from all public parks.  If you don't believe me do some research--this is happening more and more often around the country.

To me it's not an issue of following the rules, it's an issue of the negative effect that deliberate rule breaking has on the rest of us who like to use public parks and spaces.
  

sillysally

Such people don't see a well trained, off leash large dog--they see a lady with "HUGE" dogs that she just lets "RUN WILD" and "someone is going to get hurt one of these days."  

 

 

Seriously... when Emma's bouncing by my side (which she does, when she's excited), people see her as "wild" or "hyper".  I've had a good few occasions where people were afraid of her. One woman asked to pet her, then balked when Emma was released from her heel position, and moved toward her, tail wagging, to say "hi!".

 

I tend to forget that not everybody is a dog person. I love ALL dogs, and I am not afraid of any dog (they tease at work that I'd trim a lion's nails, and tell him to hush when he snarled at me). I forget that some people are afraid of ALL dogs. Some people think that dogs are dirty, or carry diseases. Some people just don't particularly care for them. Bouncing, happy dogs probably look unruly to anybody who doesn't understand how dogs normally act.  

 

I think it's really easy, for those of us who adore all dogs, to forget that other people don't. Dogs are truly scary to some people (my mom is really afraid of dogs), regardless of the size, shape, or behavior of the dog. Seeing a leash makes them feel safer, so in public, we use a leash.

And that is the whole crux of the matter.  Respect and consideration for others, not the attitude that their being afraid is not my problem.

Edie

DumDog

and my sisters uncle has shot dogs with pellets or 22 rounds because they just STEPPED on his lawn. he's afraid one day some big stray will eat his little lhaso apso.... why doesnt that jerk just fence his yard in? jeez.. the nerve!

 

 

Isnt your sisters uncle your uncle too? LOL

 

 

 

nope we're half sisters and if you knew the guy you wouldnt be surprised about his not wanting a fence. he's a giant caveman type in his fifties, never been married and owns one small lhasa apso that is somewhere around thirteen years old and is blind as a bat. besides that the man is lazy as the day is long.

the dogs i own and the location we live in are a good match. we have a lot of wild life and farm animals out here. my bullies keep my ducks and their nests safe from "varmints". but the people across the street dont like my dogs because they dont walk their dogs on leashes nor do they have a fence around their property. at one time they owned a min pin that trespassed onto my land, barking and biting my dogs, who ran her down and tackled her - they didnt hurt anything but her feelings thankfully and taught her a lesson she never forgot... - since then i have more than just an i-fence around my place. if i didnt have kids then i would stick with just that. but even with the i-fence AND regular wire fence it doesnt keep small dogs out. the min pin across the street got into some kind of poison (she was an outside dog) and died so she was replaced a few months ago by a poodle. this dog stays in the house but escapes constantly when they open the door. where does she head? into my yard...... fortunately my bullies stay out back so she isnt too tempted to join them. it still gives me heart palpitations every time i see that barking cotton ball outside. my dogs arent vicious but they are protective and territorial and she looks like a possum. the only thing these people have done different with this dog - besides being in the house - is they DO leash their poodle. the min pin never saw a leash in her life...... i was surprised she made it to adulthood being so small and loose all the time. especially with the coyote population out here.

 

 

anyway as i've said before: i love walking my dogs without a leash because its fun to watch them bounce around and sniff through the brush, climb up hills, jump ditches etc.. but that sorta thing isnt something everyone can do if they live in the city... which is obvious. my advice would be make friends with a farmer or land owner in the country. in fact, i would invite anyone to bring their dogs out here where i live (bigger well behaved breeds due to coyotes) to walk or run with their dogs down the logging roads or in the national forests. i even know of a "hidden" beach and creek where i take my dogs to swim and act the fool..

this was taken in mid summer..... i mean come on... a beach in FLORIDA with no people on it in the middle of summer? thats a rare treasure  

and this is just a short drive from my house... walking distance in fact....