I got attacked tonight, I'm soooo shaken up!

I think she'll be around tomorrow and will come find me.  It's going to be warm tomorrow so I'll wear a t-shirt, but luckily all of the bad bruising is on the underside of my arm so it won't gross people out unless I lift up my arm.  I just want to show her that I'm not terrified of the dogs and that I only tried to contact her a zillion times because we were worried about someone else handling the dog.  My husband is going to take out the dogs I want and I'll just play in the runs.  We have a chocolate lab in mind who is a bad walker, but he loves fetch and loves to splash around in the kiddie pool, so I can do that comfortably and not have to worry about being alone or having to control the dog on a lead.  I just took a handful of pain killers which will help.  I didn't take any until now b/c I wanted my body to tell me which areas were hurt so I know what to avoid.

I think the new volunteer coordintor is more freaked than me, b/c she sent me e-mails trying to setup a meeting with the behaviorist because she wants to know how people are supposed to react when that happens.  They never really taught us what to do, just what not to do (run, tug away from the dog, hit or yell at the dog and excite it more - all of which I remembered not to do).  Honestly, short of me being 200 pounds heavier, carrying a control stick, or the dog wearing an e-collar I'm not sure what anyone could have really done to stop the attack on their own terms.

If I see Wally back in the adoption area tomorrow, I will be more than slightly perturbed...

Let me try a different tack.
 
My viewpoint may be different because of my dog. He is Husky in temperment, metabolism, and some physiology. He plays hard. There are a few times when I've gotten a scrape on the finger or the hand because we both zigged at the same time. His mouth would be open because he's breathing and it's just an accidental contact.
 
With your foster, if your not ready to throw in the towel, then I would suggest muzzling when necessary until this behavior can be changed. It's a lot of work but the gist of it will be to make it more rewarding to note bite and play nice, than any other choice. Still, I would assume that this dog should be in a one-pet home with someone capable of management of these problems and that the home contain no children.

Liesje-
 
WOW!  You are quite amazing.  Really.  The only advice I can give is to get some Vitamen E caplets and puncture them and rub them on the bruises.  Also, go to the health food store and get some arnica.  It may be a little late for the arnica, but it is good to have on hand for sore joints, over exerting yourself, etc.  I use the arnica on myself after agility trials and I've also used it on my basenjis when they seem sore.  I have the sublingual, which is really fun to do with a dog.  But there is also an arnica cream.

[font=verdana]

There are a few times when I've gotten a scrape on the finger or the hand because we both zigged at the same time. ... With your foster, if your not ready to throw in the towel, then I would suggest muzzling when necessary until this behavior can be changed.

[/font]
Ron2, did you post on the right thread?  This was an attack by a shelter dog that was being walked by a volunteer.  If the volunteer had not been wearing gloves and two layers of clothing, she would have been badly hurt.  No shelter director in his/her right mind would allow this dog to be adopted.

My advice to you:
 
If I were you, I would INSIST on filling out a report and on seeing a doctor.  With back/neck trauma, problems can sometimes be a bit slow to show up.  If you have to see a doctor several weeks down the road, with no bite report or doctor checking your injuries while they are still visible, the shelter's insurance will probably fight helping you.  If ever you need physiotherapy, you'll need the shelter's insurance to pay for it.  Get it checked ASAP, even if you think you don't need it.  If nothing else, a medical report will mean that these serious bites have been recorded and cannot be downplayed as "playful nips" or something awful like that down the road. 
 
I can't help but wonder what the shelter is thinking when they're telling you not to fill out a report.  Do they have any idea how serious your injuries are?  Is it because they don't want it in the dog's record?  It MUST be in the dog's record.  If I adopted a dog, only to find out that it had attacked (regardless of motivation) a shelter worker, I would be absolutely enraged.  This dog could injure or kill someone.  It would be dishonest, immoral and reprehensible of the shelter to let this go.  I don't know what the laws are like where you are, but it's probably also illegal.
 
I'm so sorry that this happened to you.  You are an extremely brave and quick-thinking person and I'm pretty sure that I would have suffered more serious injuries in your position.  It is NOT your fault.  Think: this could just as easily have happened for the first time when the dog was playing in the backyard with an 8-year-old wearing nothing but a bathing suit.  While I'm so sorry that you've been hurt and frightened, and I can only imagine how awful you must feel right now, the fact that it happened to you may very well have saved a child. 

I am very sorry to hear this. I can only imagine how scary that must have been. I got bitten once (not attacked, but bitten because of my own stupidity, breaking up a doggie rumble) and it did not feel nice. It was only one bite, and by a fairly small dog (a frenchie) but it did hurt. I am sorry for you, as my experience does not even compare.

I think, though, that you were very noble in keeping your fear to yourself for the sake of the volunteers, and the good of the shelter because of them, but it also wouldn't have hurt for them to understand the kinds of things that go on, and to really grasp the plight of shelter animals and workers.

I hope everything turns out well for you.

I think the new volunteer coordintor is more freaked than me, b/c she sent me e-mails trying to setup a meeting with the behaviorist because she wants to know how people are supposed to react when that happens. ...

If I see Wally back in the adoption area tomorrow, I will be more than slightly perturbed...

I hope that "more than slightly perturbed" means "mad as hell".  Suggest to the volunteer coordinator that any sort of questionable behavior (including illness) means that
(1) a "Temporarily unavailable for adoption" sign is immediately put on the dog's kennel,
(2) the kennel is locked with keys only available to shelter personnel, and
(2) the person involved makes a short report in a permanent log.
 
That sign shouldn't spook visitors and allows time for the problem (whatever it is) to be dealt with without any chance of someone getting hurt.  Volunteers can be taught to say that the sign probably means that the vet needs to look at the dog for some reason and that they should stay away from the dog. 

'Nother Update -

When back this morning for my usual shift.  I said I was only going to play in the pens and take the little guys, but I got Stitch, a lab/Dane mix out for a walk because he's such a great walker.  He walks pretty slow and is happy on a traffic lead so he's not a problem to control.  I walked a few dogs with my husband (rottweiler, chocolate lab, blue doberman) and walked a little Yorkie b/c I've never even handled a dog that small before.

Wally was in his cage, but the adoption sign was gone and his papers said "special instructions" meaning you can't do anything with him without asking.  The behaviorist was not there so I'm not sure what exactly she's doing with him.

The old volunteer coordinator (who now does a different job) came out and asked if we were OK.  She said they are having huge problems with the larger dogs play biting people, probably because they are all high energy and have to be in their cells (I mean kennels) all day.

My back feels a lot better today.  Honestly, I can't 100% blame that on the dog attack since I was playing tug and some other chase games with a lab/Dane mix that day so it could have been sore from the workout in general.  The bruises look nasty, but I think they are starting to heel b/c they kind of itch.  My arm isn't as sore any more and right now I feel better than the first gymnastics workout of a new season.[]

Janet, all the kennels are locked front and back and only staff and volunteers have keys.  They are unlocked after hours in case of a fire.  If someone were to come in during a fire, they need to be able to get all the dogs out without having to unlock two locks on every kennel.

I'm meeting with the behaviorist Monday evening and I'll show her exactly what happened.  If she thinks that sort of "play biting" is acceptable, then that's their problem and the liability is on them.  I'm not a professional handler or trainer so it's not really my call.  If someone stops and asks me about him, I'll tell them the truth and say he bit me over and over and not just my hands or ankles either.

Let me try a different tack.

My viewpoint may be different because of my dog. He is Husky in temperment, metabolism, and some physiology. He plays hard. There are a few times when I've gotten a scrape on the finger or the hand because we both zigged at the same time. His mouth would be open because he's breathing and it's just an accidental contact.

With your foster, if your not ready to throw in the towel, then I would suggest muzzling when necessary until this behavior can be changed. It's a lot of work but the gist of it will be to make it more rewarding to note bite and play nice, than any other choice. Still, I would assume that this dog should be in a one-pet home with someone capable of management of these problems and that the home contain no children.

I don't foster any dogs, this is a shelter dog at the shelter.  We're not talking about a scrape of the finger or hand either.  I get those every single time I'm there from playing hard with the energetic dogs.  There's always scrapes, bruises, and punctures all over my hands and lower arms.  IMO, a dog lunging from behind and biting into my shoulder is a bit different than an accidental bite from a dog missing his toy.  Unfortunately, the shelter does not muzzle dogs.  Either they are acceptable for adoption or they're not.  There's just too many of them and that's the way they operate.

What if the attach herniated a muscle?  You know, where the muscle is torn away for the tissue or whatever holding it to the bone.  That's pretty serious and requires surgery.  Fill out the paper work, please.  I have an aunt that feels the same way you do about doctors, too expensive.  She got in a minor accident and let the person that hit her go without police reports or taking down insurance.  She thought it was just a fender bender and her car was junk anyways.  The next day her back hurt so bad.  She had a herniated disk in her back and no health insurance.  To this day they are so finacially unstable all because of this minor accident.  My father had to buy them a new car (not really new, but it worked).  They are in their late 40's and never had a finacial problem before.  That's how bad off they are all because she didn't take down insurance info.

I'm more and more looking forward to this talk with the behaviorist.  It seems like they all decided it was a "play bite" before even asking me to show them what he did.  I don't need to use words to describe it, I can simply show them exactly what he did to me before they decide.  If they want to know what it felt like, it felt like when someone really strong grabs your arm and twists his hands in opposite directions while someone else hitting you with a bat at the same time.  They were like "yeah, I think he has the same problems as Buttercup..." and that's what hit a nerve.  I've walked and played with Buttercup several times and this was NOTHING like Buttercup.  Buttercup does play bite, I'd be the first to say so.  She nips people's hands.  Since I wear gloves, she's actually bit my hand hard and taken my gloves off (then she won't give it back).  She also circles you around and around when you're in the dog run.  She pulls hard on her lead (one of the worse pullers I've walked) and gets really excited about other dogs.  Wally was not circling me nor was he nipping at my hands.  With the "play bite" dogs, it seems it usually escalates from circling and nipping hands/lower arms to more rambunctous charges and lunges, but Wally went from being on a decent walk to a blitz attack from behind.  Then they were like "We want to have you guys try Gentle Leaders because we think that really helps."  I didn't respond to that, but in my head I thought "OK, then you might as well put e-collars on them too b/c that's the only thing I can think of that would have allowed me to defend myself in that situation."  I don't know, it's like I have a really hard time articulating it and describing it to people, but it just felt different.  If I was scared of dogs, inexperienced, or had never dealt with play biting before, this incident would have totally shut me down for good.  Just the number of times he lunged and the length of time it went on makes me really wonder what was going through his head.  In my experience, the rough players and play biters generally give you a hit and then kinda back off and wait for your reaction and if you don't get excited or invite the play, they hit again.  Wally was on top of me the entire time and the only times he backed off were maybe two moments where I thought I was gaining control of the lead, trying to keep his head away from me, but then he would flail and whip his head for a few seconds and strike again and whatever part of me was closest.  If a dog of mine did what he did to a close friend or child, I'd really have to think long and hard about the liability of keeping it around.

Look, dogs can be too rambunctious and "play bite" way too hard, they can be "kennel crazy" and either shut down completely or spaz out altogether.  Bottom line is that you may be dealing with a "save them all" mentality, or Wally may have been someone's favorite, or he may have even been an ok dog when he arrived.  He could also be suffering from organic brain dysfunction, hypothyroidism, be crazed from too much time at the shelter, or even more daring the longer he is there.  Without seeing, it's hard to make a "written in stone" determination.  But, if the behaviorist's opinion is different from yours, you could suggest that she walk the dog for a week to see if a difference in handlers makes a difference, or if she notices something that you don't.  If they think this dog is safe, they need to put their money where their mouths are.  If not, they need to attempt rehab, or euth. JMHO   But, as you say, it would be unfair to adopt him out, even after training & rehab, without alerting his new family.  It's also quite possible that he did that to his last owner, which is what ended him up in the shelter in the first place.  Not everyone is honest when they turn dogs in - but this is why some of them should be.

Liesje- I'm sorry to hear that they've decided it was a play bite without even seeing your injuries. [&:] I just love it when people at animal shelters make excuses for dangerous dogs... [&o] I remember when I worked at the SPCA it was AMAZING the dogs they made excuses for. There was one named Jazzy that was VERY "iffy" in my opinion and I filled out a form with my concerns. I was extremely careful when handling the dog. Two days later, one of my new coworkers bent done in front of the dog and ended up with a disfiguring face bite... oh yeah, the dog was in the adoption section even after several of us had voiced our concerns. I can't even tell you how many more situations there were like that. Often the dogs that I had concerns about would be returned after biting their new owners. [:-]

So yeah, this really strikes a nerve with me and it's the main reason that I can't work in that field anymore. Public safety should come first IMO and there are WAY too many dogs with stable temperaments dying because of a lack of homes. [] This may sound callous, but I think the dog that did this to you Liesje should be immediately put to sleep. Sure, he might be able to be rehabilitated, but the shelter space and resources that go to helping one dog with aggression that may be fixable could help other dogs that aren't a public safety risk.

These kind of issues are also one of the reasons that I won't be adopting from a shelter or rescue anytime soon. I volunteered for Shar Pei rescue a few years ago and had a really bad experience with a dog I transported for them. They told me that he "rides well in the car" and was a good dog. So, he did NOT ride well in the car- he ripped my seat with his clawing and whined the entire hour or so trip. Then once we got to the place where we were meeting the rescue people, he was pulling on the leash really badly. This dog had been through obedience training and knew "sit", so when I told him "sit" and he didn't, I tried to place him into a sit and he lunged trying to bite me! So when the rescue director got there and I told her my concerns she smiled and said, "awww, Buddy you didn't want to listen"... like it was adorable. I couldn't believe it! I never volunteered for them again because I couldn't feel good about helping them to adopt out aggressive dogs. Anyway, like I said, I've had LOTS of experiences with rescue and shelter people making excuses for aggressive animals. I don't think people should have to walk on eggshells to be around an animal. At that point they're more of a pest than a pet.

Well sorry to to go on this little rant. I really do have strong feelings on this subject.

If a dog of mine did what he did to a close friend or child, I'd really have to think long and hard about the liability of keeping it around.

 
Exactly, can you imagine if he had tried that "play bite" on a child or elderly relative?  I shudder to think.  Anne is right, even if the dog is "just" being playful or has a medical-related problem (I've heard where some bites are siezure-related; google spring rage) or is aggressive, this needs to be addressed.  And frankly I'm not in the "Let's save them all" camp.  There are just way too many good dogs that need to be saved to spend lots of time and money on dogs with big problems.  If there weren't enough dogs for the number of homes out there or if this dog had an owner comitted to him, I might feel differently.  But euthanizing several nice dogs in the time/money span spent on a big problem dog doesn't make any sense to me. 
 
My guess is what was different about Wally's reaction was his intent.  McConnell talks about a hard stare when she talks about aggressive dogs.  I could tell when a dog was playful versus serious, but could never quite put it into words the difference many times.  McConnell does that.  Anne might know which book it was in, I'm thinking For the Love of a Dog.  Reading that may help you formulate the difference between him and Buttercup. 

1. In your place I would trust my instincts. You seem experienced enough to tell the difference between a play bite and displaced agression.

2. With or without the bite inhibition this dog showed, what you describe sounds to me like displaced agression.  I had a dog that showed this behavior - Jem Finch, the borzoi/azawakh I got from the shelter. His behavior escalated from a similar situation I found myself with him (I learned he was dog agressive when he spazzed out on a walk after a dog barked at him from behind a fence and proceeded to bite the two other dogs I was walking with him and me - no wounds, but that same frenzied biting you describe), to climbing a fence to try and kill my neighbor's pug, and ultimately to attacking his groomer (this time drawing blood) before I had to destroy him. 

3. I echo the sentiments of other posters here. Rescue is not for the soft hearted. There are too many stable temperament unwanted dogs out there looking for homes to waste time and resources trying  to fix one because someone doesn't have the heart or the stomach to be in rescue. 

4. Ultimately, as far as I am concerned, a rescue's reputation has to be as close to impeccable as it can be simply because we are asking people to take dogs into their homes with little or no background. They have to trust us when we say this is a good dog, this is a stable dog, this dog is not dangerous to humans. Otherwise we do everyone a disservice.

JMO YMMV
Paula

edit to add: sorry; this post says response to Agjilibasenji. It was meant to be a resposne to the OP, but I had just read agile, so I guess I hit 'reply'. Sorry.