Did You Ever Make a Mistake and Buy a Mill Dog?

Yep, sure did.  My most recent dog too.  It's weird, I knew that puppy mills existed and that some pet stores were bad, but I didn't get that it was ALL of them.  Basically I figured if the dogs weren't in horrid conditions at the store (I've seen some awful ones) it was ok.  I knew there were breeders, but I thought that you went to a breeder to get a show dog.  I didn't know until recently (w/in the last year) that you could get pet dogs from 'real' breeders.  I knew you could get a mutt from the shelter or from the paper (been down that road too) but I just thought if you wanted a purebred dog for a pet you got it from a breed rescue or a store.

So we were in this pet store.  We used to go to it pretty often to play with the puppies.  We walked in and I saw Mystic and I told DH we had to leave b/c I knew I would want that dog.  He insisted that we play with it....after all we'd played with a bunch of other puppies we loved and had been able to leave empty handed.  And we did this time too, but we talked about her the whole way home (and named her) and then for another few hours while we worked in the yard.  So we called them back asked them to hold her, called the groomers to schedule her for a bath, and called the vet to schedule her appointment.

Everything seemed great at first....then I noticed that she seemed to walk funny.  I pointed it out to a few other people but no one else really saw it, so I let it go for awhile, but it nagged at me.  Then one day she was limping, well that was it, called the vet the next day and got her an appointment.  The vet felt her over and said she felt fine but wanted to do X-rays to be sure.  X-rays came back and I found out that my 1 yr old Akita had hip dysplasia.  I was crushed...and broke, that appointment was $200 dollars.  Now we have an appointment down at the VA vet school which is going to be between $250-350 and if surgery is necessary that's gonna be $3500.  Not to mention the cost of the joint supplements she'll be on forever.  I called the store back to see if there was any way I could get some help from them, since it's a genetic thing and basically they sold me a 'sick' pup.  No dice....they have 30 day warrenty and that's it.

I've deffinately learned.  Next dog we get, if it's not from a rescue or shelter, is coming from a breeder.  One who has done health tests to make sure I have the best chance at getting a dog w/out issues.

Yes.

I bought a pup from a BYB, in my grief after euthanizing Ivan. It had been a few months, and I was utterly heartbroken. A woman had a fluffy adorable black lab puppy at the mall. I stopped to pet the fluff bundle, and of course she wanted to sell the last pup ASAP. I couldn't tear myself away from the sweet puppy, and ended up going home with her.

My husband was pissed, Sasha was not amused, and I quickly realized it was not the right time, the right way, or the right dog. We took her back the next morning.

I am vehemently against BYB's and puppymills. I lost a friendship over that puppy, because a friend of mine was cruel in her displeasure that I'd gotten a BYB puppy.  Getting that puppy was stupid, and not like me - but it was a good learning experience because if *I* can have a moment of weakness, given how strong my beliefs are, I have no place to judge. It also taught me the importance of being kind to people even when they make decisions you dislike.

I'm sort of glad I did that stupid thing, because it has helped me with humility. I know better, and I did that! How much more "oops" does it get?  

Thank you for posting this information & links. I'm going to deff post these links on my website to help educate people. :o)

Spirit, thank you for those links!  I adopted Harry came from the local Humane Society, and I will most likely adopt from there again when we're ready to get another dog.  However, my younger brother insists that he wants a purebred, and has been looking into breeders in his area.  I have talked to him about breed rescues, and he's open to the idea.  But, I want to send him these links so that if he does decide to go the breeder route, that he is prepared and asks the right questions.  You are right about the fancy websites!  I've been helping him search for a breeder, so I've seen them.  It's interesting how so many of them are so fancy, yet really don't give you much information.  They make me very skeptical.  These links are great for helping to find the right breeder.

The thirty day guarantee thing is not uncommon, but for some Internet breeders all you would get is 72 hours - just barely enough time for you to go unload it off the airplane it was shipped on.  Reputable breeders take their dogs back for life.   Pet stores bank on the fact that once you become attached to a puppy you won't bring it back (since the likelihood is that the dog would be instantly euthanized - only cutesie puppies sell very well).

The more people realize how expensive this can get, the more they won't hesitate to pay a reputable breeder and wait for a healthy puppy- and, guess what?  Reputable breeders often charge less for their healthy, genetically sound puppies than the pet stores do!  I got an Aussie with NO hip dysplasia, NO epilepsy, NO eye problems, and great drive (which is what I was looking for) for $750.   And, the most talented therapy dog I own was a shelter puppy.  She does have a slipped hock, but it hasn't caused her one iota of trouble and she's done agility, obedience, tricks, and tracking - at the age of seven. 

I'm so glad people are gutsy enough to post - keep it up.  Let's do what we can to stop others from taking a hit from these "bunchers" and puppy millers. 

No, but when I was younger I had a few guinea pigs from the pet department at Meijer and my housemate got a kitten from a pet store.  My Kenya is a re-home (NOT from a BYB/puppy mill/pet store) and Coke is a mutt that was born in foster care and returned to the rescue when his originally family had health problems.  We got him from the rescue.  There are specific German Shepherd dogs and lines I covet puppies from, but in reality I will most likely always go to a German Shepherd rescue first, or the German Shepherd forum (tons of people help pull and transport dogs from shelters).

As for my criteria of a responsible breeder....among other things a "responsible breeder" MUST: title their dogs in conformation (not necessarily AKC, for GSDs I prefer SV) AND have the right sport/work titles, must have health certificates such as OFA hip & elbow and CERF for eyes, must screen all applicants and pick the dog for me, preferably require I meet them and pick up the dog myself, must be working and titling their bitches not just the males, must work show and title their OWN dogs not just buy imports already titled, must have a clear and specific goal for their breeding program, must be able to tell me the pros AND cons of all of their dogs and why they choose to breed the dog, must not be breeding multiple breeds, must require spay/neuter and limited registration for pet owners, MUST hold first right of refusal and MUST use it (if I find out a dog from a breeder has ended up in a shelter or rescue, they were contacted and did not want the dog back, that breeder goes on my Black list!).

Better list of my thoughts:

http://thebarkingdog.dutchbingo.net/breeder.htm#ethicalbreeder 

To be honest, I had heard of puppymills, but never of back yard breeders until I had come to this site.  To me, puppymills and brokers were the one's to steer clear of.  We got Lola at 8 weeks from a BYB, we thought, because it isn't a puppy mill, it should be fine, right?  Wrong, so very very very wrong.

Lola reached 8 months old, she had all her shots, all her check ups, everything was going smoothly, until one Sunday evening when we noticed she had this lazy, lethargic look in her eyes.  Just a look.  We took her to the emergency vet that evening, and they noticed nothign wrong with her, except a little lump on the upper inside of one of her back legs.  We took her home, and the next morning into her regular vet to have it looked at.  On the way into the vet her back end collapsed.  The vet thought it might be from the lump, so they did emergency surgery on her.  They told us there are two scenarios after the surgery, if she can stand, then good.  If not, then we would have to take her to the vet hospital 2 hours away. 

After the surgery, she couldn't stand, they tried so much, so we had to take her (this is monday afternoon).  The people at Guelph animal hospital were waiting for her with a gurney, they wheeled her in, they told us after filling out paperwork to go home, they would keep her over night to run tests.  Fine.  My mother didn't want to leave, but they told us she wouldn't calm down if my mother stayed.  We went home.  They ran numerous tests monday afternoon and evening, but couldn't find anything wrong.  They ran MRIs, nothing.  They had a neurologist working on her, nothing. 

The next morning we were on the phone with the hospital all the time.  They ran so many tests but could find nothing wrong with her.  However, we were told that the paralysis in her back end was making it's way upwards.  All of Tuesday we were calling, and they still couldn't determine what the problem was.  By Tuesday night, the neurologist called and told us the paralysis has spread all the way up, and that it will strangle her eventually.  She also could no longer feel pain, which was a bad sign.  They told us we should probably make the decision to come and say goodbye.  We did not want her to suffer, so we made the drive up to see her.  I regret it horribly.  One look at her and i was on the floor of the hospital in tears.  I regret going.

The neurologist at the hospital sent us a very nice card, saying she passed peacefully, and they even made a clay paw print of hers for us which was really sweet and wrote "LOLA" on the top.  And both the vet hospital and our vet made a donation in Lola's name to the human society and hospital.  The neurologist asked to do a post mortem, we figured if it could potentially help another dog, then yes.  They found it was galloping spinal cancer, and we were told it wasn't hereidtary. 

We were still on contact with the people we got her from (they are a very very nice family) and they had another litter of pups.  My mother and father ended up gatting two of them. (we still hadn't found out that this could have been a very bad thing).  Anyway, We all waited with fear as their 8 month mark came and gone, and everything still seems to be going very well with these two.

Sorry for my rambling, I know it is a long story.  But that's my experience with a BYB pup.

This is Lola:

Yes indeed.  My folks had a male Peke from a mill.  He NEVER learned not to soil in the house.  He had my folks convinced that he was dumb-but not me.   He never learned to socialize and tolerate dogs outside of the family. 

 A friend of mine bought her mom a dog as a gift from a pet store. The dog had lots of health problems in the beginning but nothing life threatening really. The funny thing is, I just got an email from her today. That puggle that she bought is now 44 lbs and the vet thinks that it is actually part basset hound. I couldn't help but smile...nothing like spending $1200 for a mutt!

Mill no...BYB yes.

spiritdogs

I thought this might be a good place for people who have had bad experiences because they purchased puppies from pet stores, backyard breeders, greedy designer dog "breeders", or Internet puppy mills, to chat and share their experiences in the hope of preventing others from making the same mistake.  Many of my students have had these situations, and I'm appalled at the veterinary expenses, not to mention the heartbreak, many of them have been subjected to simply because they were not educated about this issue.  So, in the interest of education, I would like to have a safe place on the forum for people to warn others about the dangers. 

 Also, even once you are educated about puppy mills and such, how do you know whether the breeder you talk to is a responsible breeder?  Many people have fancy websites, and are very convincing...

     As a matter of fact, I have :(  My second Beagle was purchased from a pet store. It was about a month after my first Beag died, and I was beyond myself ... There were no Beagle breeders I knew of in the area, and at the time, had no idea how to go about searching for a reputable breeder, so we went to a pet store. The pup is now 7 going on 8yrs & has ideopathic epilepsy and intervertebral disc disease. Plus an unreliable temperament at times, but that's mostly due to the epilepsy.

     More recently, I purchased a pup from a breeder who had all the "earmarks" of a reputable breeder but in actuality was nothing more than a puppy mill. We'd just lost a 3yo bitch to disc disease, and as a result had to cull a promising pup out of her :(  Was looking to start over and turned to a Canadian breeder who has an outstanding reputation for field bred hounds. They belong to numerous field trial clubs, have most of their own hounds titled, and probably has hundreds of FC hounds to their credit. Well, it turned out I spent upwards of $1000 on a bitch I had high hopes for trialing in LPO, to bring in some outstanding bloodlines into the whelping box - and the pup had a grade 3 heart murmur :(  Now, I want to make it clear that ALL breeders will produce pups with congenital or genetic defects no matter how fastidiously they work to avoid them. But theis breeder showed me with her actions she didn't care that my pup was ill - it was a commodity to her - and I later had people come out of the woodwork telling me not only did they get a pup with the same problem, we were tracing it back to the same hound, let's call him FC "LJ", and the breeder would tell each & every one of us that "this is the first time we eve had this problem". BTW, health certs were alwso switched to let a sick pup pass thru customs ... I'm still out my money, dealing with this breeder was a nightmare, the whole situation was devestating & almost made me get out of the breed. Almost ...

     The reason I don't really care for those "Your Breeder Is Reputable If ..." websites are that they are too broad, they make it seem liek finding a good or bad breeder seem like black or white. When in fact finding a good breeder is probably 80% grey area. I know breeders who show, health test, then lease out their bitches time & again, and let their animals just go to pot along the way. Personally know well respected breeders who are successful in the show ring & field who consistantly excuse health or temperament problems.

     My experience is to find a breeder who does somethign with their dogs and take it from there. They don't have to be titling everything in their kennel that moves, but just be involved in some sort of activity that gives them a better perspective on what a well bred insert your breed here is. the first question to ask this breeder is what are the health/other problems you've encountered in your line. If they respond with something along the lines of "Oh, our dogs are healthy, we don't have any health problems in our lines!" RUN, OMG, RUN!!! Be polite, say thank you for your time, I would like to continue to research breeders - and scratch them off your list!!! The only reason a breeder would make this statement is that they are either outright lying to you or lying to themselves. If they've been breeding for any length of time, they have encountered something, even in the healthiest of lines. That, IMHO, is the single best way to determine who is/isn't reputable. The only question that matters. It gives one vivid insight to the ethics of the breeder, their true reasons for breeding, etc. You also want to ask why the specific breeding pair was mated, what were they trying to achieve with the litter - if the answer is "cute puppies" .... OMG, once more , RUN.

 Growing up all our dogs came from BYB as did all the dogs in the neighborhood. I suppose we were just lucky. The dogs all lived long healthy lives. Mind you the BYB in our area really weren't in it for the money. People would think you were crazy to spend more than $20 for a dog. The BYB would breed their dogs in order to add new dogs to their 'hunters'. After they picked out the ones they wanted to keep the rest were sold for next to nothing or given away. Sigh! Life seemed so simple then.

Not a mill, but I think I bought a dog from a BYB although it was so long ago that I don't think anyone had a clue what a puppy mill or a byb was.  I was just out of high school and bought a little doxie for $10 through a newspaper ad - supposedly a purebred and supposedly the papers would come in the mail.  The dog turned out to be a total canine head case, though I loved him dearly and he lived to be 12 years old.  The vet who examined him said he did appear to be purebred, but for litter after litter pups had been bred back to the mother so that by the time I got Pretzel the dogs were pretty much ruined.

Joyce

I did...a BYB. Got a German Shepherd from a lady who wouldn't even let us meet the parents. The pups were all kept in kennels in her backyard. We believe Sadie had never been out of the kennel when we got her at 3 months of age. She was afraid of everything. But we wanted a puppy and at the time our local shelter never had puppies (people were able to get rid of them by advertising.

We knew we were in trouble when we could hear Sadie's hips clicking when she was months old. Spayed at 6 months of age we had her hips x-rayed and the left ball joint was already gone while the right one was there but not in great shape. Upon confronting the "breeder" one day she denied any of her dogs had hip dysplasia. I met people years later who had also bought pups from her and they ALL had HD!!!!

And the genetic issues kept on coming. Somehow we managed to help Sadie see 12 years of age and she passed 2-1/2 years ago.

Heartbreaking...I always said I'd be driving a Lexus if it weren't for her, but I'd rather have had her than any car.