The poor stay poor, the rich get rich.

whtsthfrequency

If you’re dirt poor why should you have a dog? Following your own logic, you are too poor to care for anything. So what prompted you to take on a dependent?

You are seriously comparing an 8lb dog to a human child? wow... that's far fetched.

First off lets all remember (for the record) this year I was a "dependent" on my BF & even in his TAXES he could claim me. I would in fact be on the streets or in my own car if it was not for him.

I am the deffinition of what happens after a Health Crisis. I lost my job (with no benefits at the time), lost my drive for absolutely anything, lost my savings account, went deeper into debt. To top it off my car died a month later so I had to take out another loan.... HI YES HELLO I survived...

and I'm still struggling but what you are all pretty much saying is that I will never get out of being "poor"???

....???

mrv, you are far more diplomatic than the average bear.

Pom, I don't think you should pity people.  Perhaps some empathy is in order, though.

Comparing a dog to a child isn't that far-fetched. Before you were here, most i-doggers remember when Pirate was VERY sick. He almost died. You know how much his vet bills are? Three THOUSAND dollars. I'm paying it, all by myself. The entire week, and for MONTHS afterwards where he had to take medicine FOUR times a day (and guess how much money those medicines cost?) , I struggled. And yes, while my BF loves me and was a shoulder to cry on, he couldn't help me.

And you want to call something YOU were responsible for a HEATH CRISIS!?!?! Please. You seem so reluctant to empathize with others, but here you are looking for empathy yourself.

I seriously won't come back into this thread. I can't deal with people like you. Grow up a little, and then speak.

Pomeranian <3

HoundMusic

Pomeranian <3

If you are poor... like dirt dirt poor. You were either born into poverty, didn't get an education, or are pure lazy.

If you are rich... like really really rich. You either interited it, got a great education, or are extremely motivated.

     I agree with this statement wholeheartedly, and just for the record, I was born into a family that is slightly above the poverty level. My mother's yearly median income was always 20,000 or under. Average paycheck - $350 per week. My income was always less than that because of lack of college education and some health problems ... and no, I have no health insurance, either. Let me tell you, though, our situation improved by leaps and bounds when we began embracing the mentality that one attracts wealth or poverty to oneself based upon their own actions. We learned it in the 4th grade, it's called "cause & effect". I know from firsthand experience it's easier to fall into depression and with that comes a certain laziness that does keep one in poverty. It's so easy to blame the economy, or our govenrment, when it's us who control our destiny. I know many families living at or below the poverty level, good people, but the fact is that they are lazy, uneducated and have no desire to become motivated or broaden the depth of their knowledge. 
     Once I turned my thinking around, and hence, my behavior, my situation improved, greatly. I now have goals, which I know with hard work & perseverence I WILL attain. One needen't be born rich in the USA to attract wealth. I am convinced this is the greatest country in the world despite my ongoing financial hardships, because it favors the small business owner and allows the indivigual to attain wealth in ways taht are not possible elsewhere in the world. I want no help from the government, I need to rely on myself and stop blaming my problems on outside forces I have no control over - the simple fact is that low income people do have control over their income. I've chosen to try and get a small business going, and come closer to this every day :) I may have been born into poverty, but had no intenstions of staying there. And believe me, it's taken grit, tenecity, blood, sweat, tears, and pure old fashioned hard work to get there. Some people don't want to be bothered in taking the steps required to make their situation better. It's so much easier to take the lazy way out.  

THANK YOU! I have EXTREME respect for people like you and my father.

I applaud anyone who has drive and determination, but I think the point that myself and others are trying to make is that even with the best of intentions, drive and determination, life can sometimes hand you something unexpected. Not so long ago there was a story in the paper about a young mother (early 30s) who had terminal cervical cancer. She was in her last few months of living and he husband had had to quit his job to care for her (I believe he was a carpenter). The story was about her son selling lemonade on the corner to make some money so they could keep their house. Sometimes bad stuff happens to good people.

cakana

Sometimes bad stuff happens to good people.

Sometimes, it does, but I don't think that is the point that is trying to be made here.  The point, as I see it, and not saying that I agree, but the point is, that the vast majority of people living in poverty are simply too sorry to get themselves out of it.

I think that when we are looking at others we should consider that things happen.  Like my aunt, her husband was cheating on her and got a divorce, right after that my cousin had a hemorrhage in her brain and lost half of it.  So my aunt's life was totally messed up.  My grandmother helped support her through that time.  That was good.  However, it is 15 years later and my grandmother is still supporting my aunt, who is a perfectly capable person.  Her children are in high school and the oldest has moved out.  However, she is always in poverty because of how she manages her money.  While my very wealthy aunt is waiting until moving come to the dollar theater and buying clothing from garage sales, the poor one goes to the expensive theater and is always going out buying nice new clothing.  She has the time and support to go to college, already has a degree, but because my grandmother will pay for whatever she does she sits on her rear and feels sorry for herself.  So she is stuck being a whiny person saying she can't do anything and that she is poor and everyone needs to feel sorry for her.   At this point is when people need to say "Get over it!" 

Her whining is like a person going; "The good basketball players just keep getting better! It is not fair!  I want to win a game sometime."

"Ok, why don't you go and practice, they get better because they practice." 

"My icecream just taste too good.  I think we should put lead in their shoes so I can play with them and win." 

 

 Whenever we are looking at ourselves we should be hard on ourselves, I think. 

No excuses.  I am poor because I have chosen a certain lifestyle that has not be conducive with making money.  My TV is too good, my bed to soft.  Does that mean I am not happy?  No.  I made certain lifestyle changes that may have made me poorer, but have made me happy.  I chose the dog, or the child, over making or saving more money.  However, I am not going to whine about the rich making all this money just because I chose not to.  It is my choice.  Yes, some crappy things happened, but the rich were not the cause of them, nor can they be the solution.  The government can not be solution.  The government isn't going to magically make all the bad things go away.  My rich relatives aren't going to be the solution.  If I want to make money, I have to change.  I have to be my own solution.  Now, I may be happy in my situation.  I really only need a certain amount to live and I don't want to put in the extra work to change.  So I will be me and not bug the people who did make those changes for their money. No. I don't wish to be rich.  I shall live my quiet life and be happy.

Nothing in life is free.  If I am not paying for my wealth with my time and my sweat blood and tears, then I am paying for it with my emotions, my self dignity, my freedom.  I wish not to give anyone my freedom so if I want wealth, I'll go for it.  I'll read all the self help books I can, apply for all the scholarships I can, and eat ramen noodles until I can afford something better.  I will work my rear end off until I can finally relax in my wealth. I realize that I will fail and fail again, but someday, I shall succeed.  And even if I don't, I will have the satisfaction of knowing I tried.  I did not get it from others, it was me.  Did you notice I can, not the government can, not my rich relatives can but I can.  That is how we need to live our lives. Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you are right.

 
However, when we are looking at other we should remember there are many reasons why a person could be poor.  We need to have compassion, and always be willing to give a hand up.  But we need to be wary less our hand up becomes a hand out.   

Interesting thread. First off, please describe "poor people".

1) Are you poor if you can't get a new IPOD? Or that great big HUGE t.v? The latest fashions? Dinner and going out each weekend?

2) Are you poor if your living off government assistance and having a baby every year to get more?

3) Are you poor if your a small farmer and you have land, but the market around you continues to eat away at your livelihood? It's a family tradition and you actually enjoy it. This is the only way of life you have ever known. You will have NO retirement, just the land.

4) Are you poor if you worked your whole life in an era gone by, you have no retirement, you live on Medicare, you get "this much" a month and that is it. But the cost of food, medication, and utilities keep eating away at your budget?

#1 No, your not poor, your a whiny brat that needs to grow up and move on. If you want it, go and dang well work for it.

#2 No, and if you have anymore children we are taking money away, got that? (I wish)

#3 Yes, because of the no retirement. The land cannot be sold to an outside source, it is owned by "the family". But to a great degree alot of these people don't even know about some of the things # 1 is wanting, they have never had it so they don't need it. This is the type of poor people that eating dinner out is for really special occasions.

#4 Yes, sad and true. Our elderly, who made it easier for alot of us to have the things we did, suffer do to the cost of living. I personally think that once you hit your retirement you should get all meds for FREE.

But that is in my perfect world.

 

You are seriously comparing an 8lb dog to a human child? wow... that's far fetched

I can't seem to resize my font, so sorry this is big.

Not when the dog comes down with hip dysplasia (and yes, small breeds can have it), or a congenitally luxated patella, and that's thousands of dollars worth of surgery. Not to mention if it gets hit by a car, gets a resistant bacti infection....if you "can't even afford rent", how do you expect to buy this treatment for him? Food ? Vaccination? Basic veterinary care?

However, even when you are "poor/dirt poor" the majority of the time there is, somewhere, way to make things work. There . It may be incredibly difficult, and not everyone is strong enough, that is true...but categorizing saying all poor people shouldn't have kids because obviously they either don't want to or can't find this way? If you need to work two jobs, get on a payment plan, get into an assistance program, etc....You're making it work for your dog even though you are dirt poor. Who is to say someone else who is poor cannot raise children and doesn't deserve them?

 

I was born into a family below the poverty line, we did not have running water or a bathroom that flushed until I was 14. I wore hand me downs all through school and Christmas was the only time we received anything new and it was never much.

 I have gotten out of that, with hard work. Anyone can. I have never taken goverment assistance and I am doing great. One kid in college and another who will also be able to receive higher education once he is old enough. I own three cars, a house with land and both my husband (who was born into a large poor family) are making good money.

 I get sick of the message sent that the poor are poor because the rich are rich and that those born into poverty cannot do anything but be poor. That is pure BS. If you are poor, get off your ass and work, work two jobs if you must, go without the frills and save until you can realize your dreams.

 I am not rich, but I have managed to achieve an upper middle class income, and my kids will be able to do even better based off the education they will be able to receive.

 People stay poor because they wallow in self pity taking hand outs from well meaning but clueless good persons and they never get the will to stand on their own and say I do not want to live like this and change things. That is the wondeful thing about America, the opportunity is there for anyone who will get off their butt and go after it.

I was homeless twice. It's not all it's cracked up to be. Couldn't avoid it. Had plenty of smarts, no creds, and no family support. Granted, anyone willing to work hard can achieve something.

But here's some math to think about. Look at the 10 percent flat tax. You make $10,000 a year and pay $1,000. You make 100,000 a year and pay 10,000. Which income bracket is easier to afford the flat tax? 10,000 a year is $833.33 a month. After you pay bills, how much is left over to save for the $1,000 tax? 100,000 a year is 8,333.33 a month. After bills you may have 3 grand left over to save for tax. The person who has to tighten the belt a notch has it tougher than the person who makes enough in a month and a half to pay the tax.

Yeah, I make some good money now. After 25 years in the trade and a couple of licenses. I'm not making top dollar though and that is an economy driven thing.

Wow, shock at the lack of compassion shown in this thread for the poor, but that aside...a very interesting topic for discussion.

Pom have you read the book Conversations with God?  It's on DVD also if want to rent it from NetFlix or your local video store.  A story about a guy who found himself going from fat city into poverty and he DID get out of it...but it certainly does highlight the stigma that surrounds the homeless and why they often can not break out of it, despite whatever ambitions they may have.  (What the author did with his life is another part of the story). 

Pomeranian <3

sl2crmeg

Ahem...and honestly I don't care. A rhetorical question for you, Pom (look it up if you don't know what it means) : Who *paid* for that abortion? Crap happens, and sometimes you just gotta pay the cards you're dealt. Not everyone has a daddy who makes as much money as yours.

*ahem* i am still currently paying for it lol Hate to break it to your jealousy but Daddy hasn't given me two cents since I was 19 years old... so you can take your speach else where

i work 40hrs a week and go to continuing education part time and can't afford to survive if i didn't have my bf

so guess what? i'm no rich person either BUD

 

How is living off your BF different from living off your Dad? You just admitted that if you were on your own you'd be poor. Have you examined why - are you living beyond your means, did you fail to plan ahead, or are you simply unmotivated?

Not trying to give you a hard time, I just think that mrv and the others are right, you have a very limited perspective on the world based on a pretty comfortable upbringing.
 

Pomeranian <3

First off lets all remember (for the record) this year I was a "dependent" on my BF & even in his TAXES he could claim me. I would in fact be on the streets or in my own car if it was not for him.

I am the deffinition of what happens after a Health Crisis. I lost my job (with no benefits at the time), lost my drive for absolutely anything, lost my savings account, went deeper into debt. To top it off my car died a month later so I had to take out another loan.... HI YES HELLO I survived...

and I'm still struggling but what you are all pretty much saying is that I will never get out of being "poor"???

....???

 

Don't you see that you've just proved other people's points for them? You had financial problems, some of which you created, some of which you didn't, and your solution to survive was to attach yourself to a man who earns enough money to support you. Not by cutting back and living within your means, and not by working harder. But that's what you expect other people to do in your shoes.

While finding a well off BF may be a viable solution for a young attractive single woman, it's not for everyone. I'm sure you love your BF, and maybe you were already with him before all this, I have no idea, but in the meantime you're still living a reasonably comfortable life provided by him, so you're not really poor (as in 3 of the 4 scenarios Truley describes - great post BTW!) and you're not exactly pulling yourself up by your bootstrings either.

Let me clarify & update a bit here...

Was I being blunt & possibly insensitive? Yes I'll admit that.

What I will never agree with is "The Poor Stay Poor, The Rich Get Rich" *ENNHHH/BUZZ* Wrong!

So I'm done with college, throughout those years plus recently I've incurred a lot of medical & cc debt. So all though I have a wonderful career now, I'm still strapped for money (for the lifestyle that I would like).

Do I consider myself (personally) poor? Yes extremely. Like I said if it was not for my boyfriend's income last year I would have been screwed; I lost my job, went in and out of the hospital, my car died, my father and I had a falling out... ya life threw me a curve ball.

Starting today I am looking for a SECOND job part-time evening & weekend. (20 something hours a week) So therefore I reclaim my point that ALL poor people do not just stay poor. I could sit back and do nothing but no; I want to feel comfortable and independent so I'm doing whatever it takes to do that.

Are there situations that leave people unemployed/broke/etc? Yes, I've been through it personally. But guess what? I survived, and I'm getting back up on my feet, and moving on. Life is a struggle/fight sometimes (I will admit that) but I feel like there is plenty of opportunity for the poor to not stay poor.

Are there rare cases where that may not be the case? Yeah probably but I'm not talking about rare cases, I'm talking about the "masses" the "norm." If you want success go out there and get it. I for one know I do, so I'm going to do it.

When I see this thread I keep thinking of "The rich get richer, the poor get prison". It's a book I had to read for a class in college. Has anyone else read it?

Pom, if you are looking for books to read check that one out too. I believe you mentioned in another thread you like to read things like this.