breeding moratorium

I'm going assume we are talking about people wanting a purebred dog right?
 
To use Steve's point....hope he doesn't mind?
 
No...because if they did not breed...someone looking for something specific, for a specific purpose, is not going to go to a shelter. They'd not rescue a dog instead...and a dog would still be put down for lack of a home.
 
Pet owners only wanting a pet that looks a certain way? Some...IF they could find a small puppy in the shelter if that's what they want...IF they could find the right color and pesonality as what they want, have a health guarantee on the dog and a healthy history....yes I think they might get one from a shelter. But then a mixed breed dog might be put down in it's place....mixed breed dogs still make up the highest percentage of dogs put down at most outlets I believe.
 
Many....they'd probably import what the wanted or travel to find it.
 
Any number of things could happen upon a breeding moratorium. From great...to scary. I'd certainly hope that during that time, folks would be banking eggs and sperm from nice examples of the breed, so that when the moratorium was lifted...they'd have not lost everything.

I do not think it is the wrong thing for those people to breed dogs that are health tested and are titled.  It is not their fault that there are labs in the shelters. 
It is the fault of backyard breeders and people who do not do enough research before getting a specific breed.
I myself have had two dogs which were possible shelter candidates because people got in over their heads.  I cannot save them all but I can give one a home at a time. 
The breed of dog should fit someone's lifestyle and not be a fashion statement or status thing.  Too many people get a dog then get upset because it acts like the breed was intended...yet they do not exercise or do what needs to be done to keep the dog happy.  Many people who are in this category would be better off with a stuffed dog.

Gina makes a valid point about looking for something specific.  I would not have been likely to find the particular working lines I sought if I had adopted my Aussie from a shelter.  (Although, I have certainly rescued more than my share of great dogs from shelters. Among them, Sioux in the photo below - a perfect girl by anyone's measure.) I think they are unethical if they fail to require proof of spay/neuter from clients who purchase pet pups on a spay/neuter contract.  What is also unethical are the breeders who refuse to take their pups back for the life of the dog if the purchaser can't care for them.  Then the dog would not be in a shelter - the breeder would be caring for it and, presumably, finding it a new home... So, before we assume that sport or show breeders are unethical, time to look more closely at the Internet puppy mills, IMO.

exactly. Sticking with the lab example, my area is over-run with BYB and puppymill labs. Giant non-retrieving hyperactive dumb as posts bad hips bad elbows often aggressive monsters. If we stop breeding the real labs, the healthy ones with proper lab type, while we wait to place all the excess labs in homes,  the breed would be totally and permanently ruined. Someone has to continue to maintain the breed. They aren't like cars that you can stick in storage for forty years.
If you just want a pet lab, you can find a suitable one in a shelter. If you want a lab for hunting, you'd be far more likely to be happy with your dog if you buy from a reputable breeder.  I don't think breeders who only put conformation championships on their dogs are reputable. I want more than that. I want clear proof the dog is an excellent representative of the breed. Which of course varies by breed.

ORIGINAL: mudpuppy

"And actually now that I am thinking about it why do these good breeders keep breeding  if there are already too many unwanted dogs? "

As requested, I'm starting a new thread to discuss this topic.  Picking a breed as an example, could be any breed. Are reputable breeders being unethical by breeding their labs (conformation, field, obedience titles plus actually do real hunting with them, fully health tested) when there are thousands of labs sitting in shelters now?

 
 
I think all breeders should realize that they could be taking away a home from a potential shelter dog by purposefully breeding.  There are some people who go to so-called reputable breeders for very specific purposes, but some of them go to reputable breeders for dogs that are only going to be pets.  Can that breeder, in that specifi situation, say that he or she did not take a home away from a shelter dog?  If that breeder is truly concerned about over-population, then I would hope he or she would at least try to steer a person to a shelter dog first.
 

I think it is a valid point of concern, but I don't believe it's unethical for reputable breeders to continue breeding.  Three reasons:

1) As others said, if they stopped breeding, then good genes would go from rare to nonexistant. 

2) Respectable breeders aren't the ones breeding the dogs that typically end up in shelters.  The breeders I've looked into all require contracts so that owners surrender the dog back to them if for some reason they have to give it up.

3) It seems that respectable owners aren't overlooking shelter dogs an automatically going to breeders.  Respectable owners know what they are looking for and what is a good match for them.  If they do not find that in a shelter, why punish them?  I know what I am looking for and have been checking shelters and not coming close.  I have a breeder lined up, but instead I've gone to a rescue group and now have possibly found the right dog for me.  If it doesn't work out, I'll continue checking the shelters, but don't feel I should be guilted into not looking into a breeder.

Bad owners are the ones overlooking shelter dogs, going to bad breeders, and filling the population with bad dogs (genetically speaking).  Advocating for a moratorium on good breeding punishes GOOD people for what the bad ones are doing.  It's similar to my feelings regarding the spay/neuter bill in California.  Well-intentioned, but too idealistic and over simplified.

No, they're not unethical.  Neither of the show breeders I have gotten my dogs from has ever had one of their dogs in the shelter.  They have both taken back any of their dogs that needed homes.  Trey's breeder also made it her job to pull any shelties out of the local shelter and foster them herself and find them homes.  They never added to the shelter population because they took care of what they produced and then some.  If all breeders did that, no dogs would be in shelters.  Then you have Nikki's breeder who has never spoken to us again.  They don't know what happened to their dogs.  Luckily one of the four puppies is in a forever home, but who knows about the rest.  It's people that do that that are unethical in my opinion.  A breeder should always be responsible for their dogs.  After all, I know the papillon breeder still refers to every single dog she's bred as 'her dogs'. 

I think not allowing ethical breeders to breed will ruin the quality of the breeds and of dogs as a whole and that is something I do not want to see.

If that breeder is truly concerned about over-population, then I would hope he or she would at least try to steer a person to a shelter dog first.

 
we can all hope that happens...but while we hope...we shouldn't also assume,  it doesn't...if that makes sense?
IOW...giving slack and the benefit of the doubt to all and saving the tsk tsk tsk'ig for those that have actually done something to warrant it.
Gawd I'm not making sense today am I? lmao...

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles

If that breeder is truly concerned about over-population, then I would hope he or she would at least try to steer a person to a shelter dog first.

 
we can all hope that happens...but while we hope...we shouldn't also assume,  it doesn't...if that makes sense?
IOW...giving slack and the benefit of the doubt to all and saving the tsk tsk tsk'ig for those that have actually done something to warrant it.
Gawd I'm not making sense today am I? lmao...

 
Where are there any assumptions being made?

There are some people who go to so-called reputable breeders for very specific purposes, but some of them go to reputable breeders for dogs that are only going to be pets. Can that breeder, in that specifi situation, say that he or she did not take a home away from a shelter dog? If that breeder is truly concerned about over-population, then I would hope he or she would at least try to steer a person to a shelter dog first.

 
well, even with wonderful parents some of the litter are likely to not be "perfect" for the intended purpose, but would make excellent pets or excell in some other doggy endeavor. You can't fault breeders for wanting to find homes for the "pet quality" members of their litters as well as the "perfect" members.

ORIGINAL: mudpuppy

There are some people who go to so-called reputable breeders for very specific purposes, but some of them go to reputable breeders for dogs that are only going to be pets. Can that breeder, in that specifi situation, say that he or she did not take a home away from a shelter dog? If that breeder is truly concerned about over-population, then I would hope he or she would at least try to steer a person to a shelter dog first.

well, even with wonderful parents some of the litter are likely to not be "perfect" for the intended purpose, but would make excellent pets or excell in some other doggy endeavor. You can't fault breeders for wanting to find homes for the "pet quality" members of their litters as well as the "perfect" members.

 
I don't find them at fault for wanting a home for their pet quality dogs, but a person who just wants a pet can find one at a shelter.  That "pet quality" dog could be taking away a home from a shelter dog. 

Not really, a lot of people really value getting a puppy that is well bred even if it is just going to be a pet dog.  They want a puppy of a certain breed and they expect it to act and look like a certain breed.  They want to know it's healthy and comes from disease free stock.  You can't get all that from a shelter and a lot of people simply want to know as much as possible the background on their pet.  Plus if you think a certain breed fits your personality, then you want a dog that fits that breed.  This is probably going to sound snobby, but many of the rescued papillons or pet store papillons I have been around neither look anything like paps or act like them.  They have short hair, are 16 lbs, but most importantly many poorly bred papillons have really snippy temperaments which is not how the breed should be.  I know going to a good rescue, you can find a dog with a good temperament, but if I was dead set on getting a dog that is what the breed should be, I'd get a breeder's papillon.  I don't think it's wrong to have certain guidlines even just for a pet dog. 

ORIGINAL: Laurelin_429

Not really, a lot of people really value getting a puppy that is well bred even if it is just going to be a pet dog.  They want a puppy of a certain breed and they expect it to act and look like a certain breed.  They want to know it's healthy and comes from disease free stock.  You can't get all that from a shelter and a lot of people simply want to know as much as possible the background on their pet.  Plus if you think a certain breed fits your personality, then you want a dog that fits that breed.  This is probably going to sound snobby, but many of the rescued papillons or pet store papillons I have been around neither look anything like paps or act like them.  They have short hair, are 16 lbs, but most importantly many poorly bred papillons have really snippy temperaments which is not how the breed should be.  I know going to a good rescue, you can find a dog with a good temperament, but if I was dead set on getting a dog that is what the breed should be, I'd get a breeder's papillon.  I don't think it's wrong to have certain guidlines even just for a pet dog. 

 
 I'm not talking about people who are dead set on getting a dog from a breeder.  I'm addressing the segment of the population, as small as it may be, who are willing to buy from a reputable breeder or get a dog from a shelter.  I know that if I were ever going to buy a dog it would be from a "reputable" breeder, but I also know that I would be open to getting a shelter dog.  I don't have unlimited space for dogs in my home, so I know in my situation the dog from the breeder would be taking up a place in my home that would normally go to a shelter dog.

I will preface this by saying, I do not breed, have never bred, or will never breed dogs. I spend my free time rescuing animals...

Some people do want something specific like some people want a border collie to herd the sheep on their ranch, or they want a German shepherd to compete in Shutzhund (sp?), or they want a beagle to hunt with.

And a lot of people just want a puppy that is guaranteed to be healthy and comes from good lines. 

Most people who buy a dog from a reputable breeder don't want a dog from a shelter. So really they aren't taking homes away from rescue dogs. Yes, if there were only rescue dogs left and people didn't have a choice, they would have no choice but to not get a dog or adopt one but I really don't think that is fair. I wish more people would consider adoption but some breeds just don't end up in the shelters. It would be almost impossible for someone to find a rescued English Mastiff puppy, or a rescued Japanese Chin puppy.

I also know reputable breeders who are involved in rescue. Gina has been a blessing to us by finding us a wonderful beagle rescue around where I am, a group that has saved no telling how many beagles from euthanasia in the last 6 months….I also know a Dalmatian breeder who is *the* national contact for Dalmatians in shelters. She also runs her own rescue. There are quite a few other Dalmatian breeders who rescue as well. I also know an English bulldog breeder who rescues English bulldogs. She always has 3 or 4 rescues at her house.  I don't know many breeders, but the few I do know are involved in rescue.

Reputable breeders will take their dogs back if they end up in a shelter. Sadly the vast majority of pure bred dogs that end up in shelters are from poor quality breeders. I find nothing unethical about improving and bettering a breed. It's the BYBs and the puppy mills that need to be shut down and told they can not breed.