Visited breeder now ?

    • Gold Top Dog
    The bottom line is, if your gut is telling you already that something is fishy (and obviously it is since you posted these questions here) then listen to your gut! Something IS fishy with this woman. Keep searching. Don't buy a dog from this lady!
     
    Like everyone else said:
     
    1. She would have AKC registered papers for her own dog if her dog was registered. If she doesn't, she could get them if she wanted.
     
    2. If you can't see the sire and can't prove that he's even registered how do you really know what breed he is?
     
    3. If you want a certain color don't get talked into something else.
     
    4. Taking a pup from it's mother/litter at 6 weeks is asking for behavioral problems. Those extra 2 weeks are very important!!!
     
    5. If she was responsible she wouldn't be letting you see the pups at 2 weeks of age. There's too many risks involved. At this age, the mother should be spending as much time as she wants with her puppies in a quiet, calm environment without visitors.
     
    Don't buy a puppy from this lady!!
     
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    in many states is just plain illegal to either sell or give away a puppy or kitten before the age of 8 weeks. She just might be breaking a law. I'd check into that and see if the state she's located in can even let them go prior to 8 weeks of age.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I concur, keep looking for a different breeder.
     
    I thought it was important to expose young puppies to wide variety of people and experiences-- kids, men in hats, old people, cats, etc. ?   I thought breeders were supposed to invite all kinds of people over to handle their puppies. I've been a "puppy handler" invitee, just asked to leave footwear at the door and wash hands beforehand. I don't understand the comments about it being so dangerous. The pups should be protected by the mother's milk until they are weaned. It's the period between weaning and the vaccines "taking" that pups are in danger.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Lol mudpuppy...you can socialize young puppies without having strangers into your home. If someone "knows" you then if they choose to let you come over that's not really applicable to what I said...which was I do not allow people "I do not know well" to handle my puppies that young. In fact I do not allow people "I do not know well" (aside from repairmen that I have called and expect), into my home for ANY reason...do you?
     
    Puppies THAT young are easily overstimulated and strangers can also upset the dam as well...esp at only 2 weeks old! Their eyes aren't even able to focus well yet as they've just opened! People who show the pups that young...IMO they aren't helping the pups socialize they are simply letting some people who are interested see them...it's for the people...not the pups. Structured stresses like those in the Superpuppy programs are MORE than ample at that age and up to when they're on their feet, able to see, and express when they've had enough.
     
    If you have some sort of primative dog breed that is wary of people if not handled from 3 weeks on? One thing...but Beagles? Beagles do not need much help in that area...6-8 weeks is plenty of socialization time before they leave for home. It's also not like they live in a library or isolation cell, here either...noise commotion...other animals...people of both sexes and many colors live in my home and are in my extended family...lol.
    • Gold Top Dog
    At the shelter where I work there are volunteers called Puppy Petters.  They receive special training and only work with socializing the puppies.  A lot of the puppy petters are the younger girls, socializing puppies to be with kids.  The dog walk/obedience people like me are NEVER allowed in the puppy rooms, especially after we've handled the adults.  The puppies are behind glass so people can see them, but only the puppy petters handle them (and they have a procedure for cleaning themselves and wear scrubs).  That way, the pups get used to being handled and can see the people, but are in a sterile environment and only exposed to people that are trained.

    I swear, everytime I'm there at least 4 people ask me if they can go in the puppy room.  Read the signs, people...
    • Gold Top Dog
    oh, that makes sense rwbeagles. And I agree, two weeks is way too young for any socialization to "take" anyway.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Lol...hey if I know you well and you don't mind being possibly pooped or pee'd on LMAO...come on over! teehee!
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: Liesje

    At the shelter where I work there are volunteers called Puppy Petters.  They receive special training and only work with socializing the puppies. 

     
    Awww, what a wonderful assignment that would be!!!  It would be like free therapy![:)]
    • Gold Top Dog
    Hey, When I got my puppy I paid deposit then when flight was set I sent balance and I got paper work with mine and records of shots and so on. I didn't think you could handle puppys so young but Im not sure. I heard you can check breeders out through better business  b I just know I talked alot on phone with breeder asked alot of questions. So I guess use your gut feelings on it or I have been learning try to find one near you but I trust the breeder I went with. I have never had such a good puppy no whinning sleeps all night. Smart.
    • Puppy
    First of all I'm glad you found a breeder you could visit -- that is a good learning experience even if you learned there were some things that were not right!  You've gotten some great replies stating the problems people see in this particular situation.
     
    Here are my thoughts:
    When I have had a litter to show to people I have all the paperwork right out there for them to see when they arrive on both the bitch and the stud (I do not currently have a stud dog living here but when you deal with a reputable person you get copies of everything -- papers, certifications, titles, photos, etc.).  So I have AKC papers ready as well as all health clearances, pedigrees, etc. and when puppies go home each person gets a folder with all of that information to take home.
    So even if she doesn't have the sire she should have had that information for you to look at as well as photos of him and a number you could call to talk or to e-mail with his owner with questions.  You also didn't mention what the ages of the parents are -- if they are under age 2 they would not have OFA numbers for hips/elbows.
     
    If you have the AKC numbers of parents you can look up their elbow/hip/eye certifications on-line at [linkhttp://www.offa.org]www.offa.org[/link]  Also, dogs do not have to be purebred to be listed in the OFA data base.
     
    I have let people I know come see puppies that young and I do usually crate my other dogs because the people aren't there to see them -- they are there to see the mother and her pups.  However if they ask to see a particular dog I am happy to get them out for them to see (such as my recent litter where I also own aunt, grandmother, cousin so people wanted to see them).   My mother dogs are all very good about having the other dogs around them and their pups (see below photo) however not every bitch is okay with other adult dogs around their pups so that may be why the others were crated.
     
    As for holding 2 week old pups, I don't let others hold them at that age and if someone did come over to peek at them they would have to remove shoes at the door and wash hands with antibacterial soap.  They also would have to have changed clothes right before coming over if they have other dogs or had visited elsewhere (which I would have discouraged).  They might get to touch one briefly with me holding it.  However, from the time they are born I handle my puppies multiple times per day as well as do the neuro-sensory stimulation exercises with them.  Once pups are active then I let people sit on the floor and play with them.
    I NEVER let small children hold the pups -- they must sit on the floor with them, too easy to have one wiggle out of their arms and fall otherwise. I have some breeder friends who do not allow anyone to see the pups (outside of close friends) until they are 6 weeks old.  I feel comfortable with my policy and have never had a problem.
     
    I think you are on the right track trying to find someone reputable but my concern here all along is that someone breeding two purebreds together to create a mixed breed dog is likely not a reputable breeder (again, I would never sell any of my puppies knowing someone would be mating them with another breed eventually) making it hard to find someone who does OFAs, CERFs, keeps pups until 8 weeks, etc.  Those wishing to make money off the litter certainly don't want to keep the puppies any longer than necessary as they cost more to feed, for vet care and are much messier day by day after 6 weeks.  I would keep checking those shelters and be patient -- good things are worth waiting for!   When we decided to get a pug, we were on a waiting list for over a year for our first pug and 18 months for our second.  Why be in a hurry when you will have your new companion for 12 to 14 years?
    Deb
     
     
     

    • Gold Top Dog
    Wow, thanks for all the info., especially the pics of the certificates - brilliant idea.
     
    Bylabs2 your pups are so cute.  I love Goldens & labs, but my apt. doesn't allow big dogs. I love the breed so much that I volunteer for a Golden Retriever rescue.
     
    I'm not going with that lady, so many things just stuck out like: left over dog canned food sitting open on the table, empty water bowls in the dam's crate & a smell that didn't go away.
     
    I found these 2 breeders from a yahoo group who seem pretty good, a lot of members had cockapoos from them:
    [linkhttp://www.k9goodies.com/birdwalk/]http://www.k9goodies.com/birdwalk/[/link]
    [linkhttp://www.mulberryfarm.com/]http://www.mulberryfarm.com/[/link]  (this one is closer to me than the other, but those prices - ouch!!)
    • Gold Top Dog
    The second one you listed...erm. I'd go elsewhere...personally.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Hmmm, the second one breeder you listed has GORGEOUS Cockers and really nice looking Poodles. I don't think I've actually seen show quality dogs that other Cockapoo breeders are using. But they do have a lot of dogs! I counted 44 active breeding dogs. [&:] Basically, they're running a farm for profit, but that doesn't necessarily mean that their dogs aren't well taken care of and that you won't receive a quality, well raised puppy. It's a gray area that people have differing opinoins on... I would visit and see if their facilities are clean and go with your own gut feeling. There's no mention of health testing, so that's also your call.

    It looks like they feed a good food- Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul and that's always a plus for me. They don't send puppies to their new homes until 8 weeks, which is good. They do have restrictions also for who they'll sell a puppy to, which tells me that they do care where their puppies go.

    Okay, and the first breeder does OFA and CERF testing, which is always good. It also looks like they've been working towards developing the Cockapoo as an actual breed and working with a registry. Which IMO gives them a little more credibility. They also don't let pups go home until 8 weeks, so that's good and they also temperament test, which I think is a great tool for matching pups with the right owner.

    Honestly, they both seem better than the average Cockapoo breeder. I think you would probably have a good experience going with either one.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Just a suggestion. I am not sure of your zip code, or how close these places are, but here are some cocker spaniel x poodle mixes in shelters near you

    [linkhttp://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=8152635]http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=8152635[/link]

    [linkhttp://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=8153135]http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=8153135[/link] –oh, my gosh what a cute puppy! Is in NJ too!
     
    [linkhttp://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=8059957]http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=8059957[/link]
     
    [linkhttp://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=7637385]http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=7637385[/link] -doesnt have a picture
     
    [linkhttp://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=7753202]http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=7753202[/link]
     
    [linkhttp://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=7670116]http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=7670116[/link]
     
    [linkhttp://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=8214813]http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=8214813[/link]
     
    [linkhttp://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=8221493]http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=8221493[/link] -in NY not sure how far away that is.

    I would also suggest contacting www.poomixrescue.com .
     
    There is a group dedicated soley to saving Cockapoos: [linkhttp://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/cockapoorescue/]http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/cockapoorescue/[/link]

    If you do decide to go with a "breeder”, I would definitely choose one who is working toward the standard, as well as one who does the OFA testing.

    [linkhttp://www.k9goodies.com/birdwalk/]http://www.k9goodies.com/birdwalk/[/link] looks good but I don't like this "All our breeding stock is AKC registered or provable” I guess they would need to define "provable”. I DO like this "In regard to rearing and shipping, we ship at 8 weeks of age (sometimes later if we feel a certain individual is not socially ready to go).” I do wish they had a spay/neuter contract as well for the puppies they don't consider breeding worthy.

    Good luck to you.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I was getting really impressed with the first one, until I read this and had my enthusiasm dampened a bit:
    Puppies should be placed with you by the age of 8 weeks; after that pups staying over 8 weeks by buyer's choice will be assessed $50 per week board/continuing care charges;  this will include continued vaccinations and beginning house/crate training/socialization and general life experience.

    I don't like the idea of breeders trying to move their puppies quickly. And I think we agree that placing puppies should be done at 8 weeks or later, not "by" 8 weeks?

    Still, all things considered, it looks pretty good. I'd probably call and talk to them, and ask them sepecifically about the 8 weeks.

    The second one's website certainly wasn't as good, but they didn't seem terrible. I didn't see any information about health testing, though I could have just missed it. They had this to say about the puppy ages:

    All sold puppies are to be picked up by their 8 week birth date or the weekend immediately following their 8 week birth date, unless prior arrangements have been made with Mulberry Farm owners... Additional time that the puppy is here prior to pickup will be considered board and subsequently billed at $25.00 per day.