Annual Vaccination question...

     I give only the bare minimum with vaccines, as I have noticed signifigant differences in immune system strength and decline of overall health when too many vaccines are administered. With my pups, they get their first shots @ 6 weeks - usually a 5 in 1 combo shot. I advise my puppy buyers to then give the subsequent shots @ 8-9 weeks and then the absolute last one somewhere between 12-16 weeks. I feel very strongly that the puppy shots should not be repeated more than 3x for any reason, and have warned all my clients to fight their Vet tooth and nail on this NO MATTER WHAT. If I'm keeping back a pup, it gets the first and ONLY puppy shot with it's littermates @ 6 weeks, and nothing else thereafter. The next shot I will give is around one year old. A booster 5 in 1 and will seperate the Rabies shot by about 2 weeks. Will not do them all lumped together. After that, I may do a rabies shot every 3-5 years. My 7yr old myy got his last rabies shot last year, I won't give an older dog any vaccinations, period. In all honesty, I hunt with my Beagles and most of them have only 1-2 single Rabies shots in their lives. They do come in contact with wildlife that could potentially be infected with Rabies, but I know for a fact that immunity from vaccinations do last longer than 12 months, or 3 years, and the health problems overvaccinating can cause are tangible and very severe in some cases.  
     Case in point. I have an epileptic dog that is going on 8yrs and hasn't been vaccinated since early 2001. My dogs had a bout of corona 18 months ago, and this dog, who was one of the only ones vaccinated for corona several years before, remained immune.

    

 The new protocol is every 3 years,not every year. So i waited 3 years before vaccinating this time round,and only did it because there was an outbreak of parvo in my area and my vet made me feel guilty.

But next time i'm going to look into a titre test which tells you how much immunity they have left.Most everyone i know who titre's rarely have to revaccinate their dogs because they're still protected from their very first booster.

Alot of vets dont want to follow the 3 yearly protocol because vacc's aswell as routine spaying/neutering is their bread and butter... 

I've only ever vaccinated my pups at 8 weeks and then again at 12 weeks. 

My dog gets rabies and the distemper combo every three years, and that is it. I don't do Lyme or Lepto because I don't take her to endemic areas, and I don't do Bordatella because I don't board her (but if I had to, I would be required to get it) and don't go to dog parks (can't, she doesn't play well with others).

My cat gets rabies every three years and intranasal FVRCP every three years.

 While I think a lot of people get too upset about vaccines and circulate some faulty information. However, I do wholeheartedly agree that keeping them at a minimum is probably best. If there is no need for a vaccines, don't give it. However, definitely get the big ones (like rabies).

This (http://www.healthypet.com/library_view.aspx?ID=196&sid=1) website from the AAHA explains it pretty well.

Emma was getting only rabies, and only every three years. Now? I'm not sure. She had a pretty nasty reaction to her last rabies shot. I'm researching and trying to figure out which is worse, the consequences of not vaccinating or the risk of vaccinating. 

I follow the recommended guidelines set forth by the AAHA in 2006. There are some vaccines that are 1 year and some that are 3. I do not believe in not vaccinating dogs. 

All that my dogs are getting are the following: Annual Corona, Annual DA2PPv, and Annual Rabies (the 1 year shot, not the 3 year one, my Vet thinks that 3 year Rabies has many more side effects that the 1 year one). One of them had Lyme shots once, but we don't need it, since we live in NYC, it was when we just got him, and didn't know any better. Since I don't board them, there is not need for that shot (not sure what it's called, the one some of you had mentioned), and I groom and bath them myself, don't trust anyone with it :), so there is no danger of the need for that shot.
So now it's only the Annual Corona, Annual DA2PPv, and Annual Rabies (the 1 year shot). So what do you guys think I should do.  Titer, and then act accordingly? I think thats the best bet. Am I wrong?

I'm cool with 3 year distemper combos for cats and dogs, but rabies I have done annually for dogs.  There are incidents of rabies in this state and both of my dogs will chase prey, plus it is required for a dog license.  Having large dogs, and one a German Shepherd, the assumption is that my dogs are vicious and want to bite.  Neither of my dogs have ever bit a person or tried to bite, but the stigma is there so I do everything in my power to protect them and quickly prove that they are safe and not at risk for rabies.  They always wear their licenses in public and when I travel with Kenya I take her rabies certificate along.  Also since I rent, I have to do everything by the books.  I don't want to risk being evicted because of my dogs when the reason we live where we live is for them. 

My cats get three year rabies (or not at all).  The dogs also get Bordatella but only as needed for boarding. 

Corona is a puppy disease AND corona lives *in* parvovirus.  (It literally has a sympbiotic relationship with the virus itself and lives IN the virus.)  So a dog can't GET corona if it is properly vaccinated against parvo. 

Often you will find those people who find no fault in frequent vaccination have never had a truly seriously ill dog with something like an auto-immune disease.  That's no slap to those people -- it's simply a fact that once you've had first hand experience with what vaccines CAN do, you tend to get a bit militant against them.

It's more than just that it's 'hard' on the immune system.  it is, but the real objection to frequent vaccines is that it can lead to things like injection site sarcoma, vaccinosis and immune-mediated diseases.

At this point the "studies" have proven that once every 3 years is sufficient.  But those studies are ongoing and will likely eventually prove 3 years to even be too often. 

The 'kind' of vaccine is also important.  The "combo" shots are typically killed vaccines.  That's why they can give so many at once.  But they form a less long-lasting immunity first off -- as well as the fact that they truly stress the immune sytem wtih such a hefty barrage of disease cells in the vaccine.

I currently have an English cocker, Billy, who has survived IMHA.  Now that doesn't sound like much, but it was (and I"m pretty darned experienced) THE most heinous disease I've ever dealt with.  Typically buffy coat cockers just plain don't stand a chance.  Frankly, I've only heard of TWO ever surviving IMHA and my Billy is one of those (and I use all sorts of alternative medicine along with the western medicine to help protect his body from the disease process as well as the side-effects of the medicine).

So yeah, I'm one of "those people" who would tell you to titer until you *must* vaccinate.  Mine will never get a parvo or distemper again UNLESS they need it. Billy, flatly, will never ever get ANY vaccine ever again - it would literally be a death sentence to him.

In fact, this year we had a rabies titer done and sent to Kansas State (I think it's the only lab that DOES rabies titers).  Billy's titer was so astronomically high my vet was thrilled.  He wrote to my state/county and got a waiver so that Billy did not need to be vaccinated in order to get his license. 

Just my 2 cents.

My thinking with vaccines is if every 3 or more years is proven to be often enough, why do it yearly? If there's no benefit and possible harm, what the heck is the point?

At Cherokee's physical in November, we sent blood off for titers for parvo and distemper. The vet called me a couple days later and told me her titer values were the highest the lab could measure, meaning she doesn't need to be vaccinated for those diseases right now. Now, the titers cost me like $60, when the vaccines probably would have cost like $10. There's no guarantee that a high titer means they won't contract the disease, but guess what? There's no guarantees with vaccinating either. Cherokee's got skin problems galore, but for the first time in a few years, her skin was calm, and had been calm for a few months. Could I have been sure that vaccinating her would have triggered a skin issue? No, but since we have the ability to check her titers and see she's probably pretty darn immune to those diseases, why should I risk it?

Now, I did get her vaccinated for rabies, even though she probably would have titered high for that too and doesn't come into contact with wildlife much anyway, because it's the law and Cherokee ain't the most stable of dogs. Her skin flared within a week after vaccination. After months of calm, normal skin, I have trouble believing that was a coincidence.

Titering for rabies is NOT an 'option' usually and I'm glad you said that so I was prompted to make that clear.  THE ONLY REASON we titered for the rabies is simply because it is NOT an option **not ever** for Billy to take a vaccine.

But this makes the difference that he can do pet therapy and without being licensed I couldn't do that.  Thanks Chelsea.  I really didn't mean folks should titer for rabies -- it's simply the only possible thing with Billy.  I'm glad Cherokee was so high.  It likely will stay that way.

About how much does it cost to titer the vaccines? Casey is due for his coming up soon, very soon, I think. Casey goes to the dog park and beach regularly. He also comes to work with me occasionally (animal shelter) and goes to the shelter events. I bring home a wide variety of "critters" from work, from infant puppies to bunnies.

He has to get his rabies, or he can't keep coming to the events he goes to. I was going to do the three year, along with the three year license this year. But what about the others? He has previously been vaccinated with the coronavirus/distemper/parvo/adenovirus combo and bordatella- nasal.

PomMommy

All that my dogs are getting are the following: Annual Corona, Annual DA2PPv, and Annual Rabies (the 1 year shot, not the 3 year one, my Vet thinks that 3 year Rabies has many more side effects that the 1 year one).

Well, I think your vet is mainly concerned about selling you as many shots as possible. Especially when you state that the vet thinks the three year rabies vaccine has more side effects than the 1 year vax. If he meant that he prefers one brand over another, that may be valid. The truth is, the major vaccine companies sell both a one year rabies shot and a three year shot. And they are EXACTLY the same thing. So your vet is giving your dog three times as much rabies vaccine as he would with the three year shot.

My old roommate worked in a lab that made rabies vaccine. When they were short handed I worked there a few saturdays. Here's how it worked. After a batch of vaccine was made, then they looked at the orders and decided how to bottle it and which label it would get. If they had orders for one year vaccine then it got that label, if they needed three year vaccine then it got the three year label.

It also disturbs me that your vet recommends the Corona vaccine. Corona causes clinical disease only in puppies that are too young for vaccinations. Adult dogs just do not get sick from Corona.

This website has all sorts of great info. Scroll down a little bit and you will see what he has to say about Corona. Other pages on the site are very educational also. http://www.critteradvocacy.org/K9%20Recommendations.htm

HoundMusic

If I'm keeping back a pup, it gets the first and ONLY puppy shot with it's littermates @ 6 weeks, and nothing else thereafter. The next shot I will give is around one year old.     

Wow. That would really scare me. I am a firm believer in not over vaccinating, but a vaccine given at 6 weeks gives protection to only about 30% of the puppies. That means that 70% of puppies who receive only a six week vaccine are completely unprotected from parvo and distemper. Yes, there are some risk to vaccinations, but those risks look very small compared to the risks and possible death from catching those deadly diseases. All the scientist and vets who are advocating reducing vaccinations still state that the last vaccinations need to be given after the immune system is mature. This includes Dr Dodds, Dr Schultz, Dr Bob Rogers. If you want to give only one puppy vaccine, it really should be given at around 14 weeks.

This website has great information. You might want to brush up on your principles of immunology. http://www.critteradvocacy.org/K9%20Recommendations.htm 

I remember you talking before about your adult dog that had corona. How was that diagnosed? Was it sent out to a lab that has the equipment to make the diagnosis. According to the above website, a regular vet is not capable of accurately diagnosing corona. He also explains why the vaccine would not work, even if dogs were getting sick from corona. Here is what it says:

Canine corona virus is only a disease of puppies less than eight weeks of age (15- p20). It is a rare, self-limiting disease (i.e. dogs get well in 3 days without treatment)(3). Corona virus does not cause disease in adult dogs. Cornell University and Texas A&M University have only diagnosed one case each in the last 7 years. For a veterinarian to make a diagnosis of Corona Virus based on clinical signs is highly presumptive. Only electron microscopy of *** can verify the presence of canine corona virus. This is only done at places such as Texas A & M Diagnostic Laboratory, and they report no positive tests. The presence of the virus does not indicate it is the cause of disease. Dogs over 8 wks of age cannot and have not been experimentally induced to exhibit disease from corona virus. This is age related immunity.

Immunologists have reason to believe that the vaccine does not work. Mucosal secretory IgA antibodies would be necessary to protect a dog against this disease & an injectable vaccine will not provide this type of protection.(13, 19- p18, 21)  I see no justification for the use of corona virus vaccine.