Buying a pup online

ORIGINAL: Xerxes

I pulled up a pedigree of a GR dog they are currently breeding "Cody" whose dam does have "good hips" as per the OFA online database. Hooray. But, looking at the pedigree you can see her sire is also her grandsire----in other words her mother was bred to HER father. [linkhttp://www.snowypinesgoldens.com/cody/cody-pedigree.htm]http://www.snowypinesgoldens.com/cody/cody-pedigree.htm[/link] The dam's father/mate and mother were not on OFA.

While I am in no way trying to legitimize this particular site, linebreeding is a common practice in many lines of dogs.  It is a popular practice used to solidify specific traits within a line or kennel. 

[linkhttp://www.pharaoh-hound.com/litters/rebedie.htm]http://www.pharaoh-hound.com/litters/rebedie.htm[/link]

Those are my pups parents.  Notice that Xerxes sire, CH K'azar DBL Khanfederate is also his Dam's grandsire.  Also notice that Rebel, his sire, has the same maternal and paternal grandsire. 

Linebreeding is not a tool that is always suspect within a breeder's lines.  However it should always be considered when major genetic health issues are a cause for concern.

 
Yes, I agree that linebreeding in and of itself is NOT always cause for suspicion. I did not intend to cast aspersions on every breeder who linebreeds. It CAN be done by knowledgeable breeders with a specific goal in mind.
 
Peeking at your link I would hazard a guess ([sm=lol.gif] okay, more than a guess) that Xerxes's litter was the result of serious planning by the breeder. I would bet that each of his parents had some strength that the breeder wanted to build upon and their temperments, etc. were a good match. I couldn't help but notice the number of breed champions on the pedigree and that the CH sire/grandsire you mentioned has "multi BIS" after his name----which pretty much tells me that these breeders are paying attention to what they are doing.[]
 
In "Cody's" case I see a sire bred to daughter and no available hip or other health info. available on Cody's sire or dam at OFA. Cody's pedigree is also vacant of any dogs with a title. It does not seem that they have a trait they are trying to preserve or improve upon and they appear to be breeding dogs without doing routine health screenings as their kennel name does not show up once in OFA for goldens. (There is another breed with the same kennel name.)
 
I didn't realize the OP was familiar with Goldens until I just read a follow up post---but I agree that in photos these dogs do NOT look like they meet the breed standard. But since I am not an expert on goldens I could be way off base so I didn't mention it.
 
Good luck finding a pup locally.

ORIGINAL: brandy76

ORIGINAL: chewbecca

I don't know. I wouldn't do it.
That's just MY opinion, though.

I just don't see HOW one can guarantee the health of a mixed breed pup. I mean, if you see the pups online, the look of the pups cannot even be guaranteed. A reputable breeder doesn't NEED to sell the dogs online. A reputable breeder has a waiting list of people to buy their dogs.
How much is he charging for his pups? I know even with purebred pups that the health and temperament of dogs cannot be 100% guaranteed, but one has a better chance of guaranteeing that than those of two different breeds.

He's charging $750 plust $250 for shipping.  I understand that reputable breeders have waiting lists, but how would I find these reputable breeders w/o the internet?

Go to Petfinder and look up this mix.  You can find one MUCH cheaper and save a life!  I suspect you will be able to get a Cockapoo for about 250.00 TOPS.  This dog will be altered, UTD on vaccines and may well be started on potty training and basic obedience.If you want to still spend 1000.00, donate the balance to an animal rescue or shelter!

[linkhttp://www.poomixrescue.com/others.html#cockapoos]http://www.poomixrescue.com/others.html#cockapoos[/link]
 
Did you look here yet Brandy?

OMG! CUTE!!!
[linkhttp://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=8149950]http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=8149950[/link]

normally a good way to find breeders is to go to dog shows. But a mixed breed? I personally wouldn't be willing to pay even $10 for a deliberately bred pup from a breeder unless both parents had been screened for the common problems in the breeds and had at least passed a CGC test. If you can't find an acceptable up in rescue, your safest option, and I hate to say this, is to look in your local newspaper. At least then you can meet the parents and see how the litter was raised and see if the breeder seems at all concerned about the welfare of the dogs.

"He's in Iola, WI"

That is an area that has a lot of Amish (yes, there are Amish in WI) and an easy area to hide large scale dog breeding operations as it is a  rural/remote area.
I was not impressed with his web site -- cocker parents and poodle parents both looked to be poor conformation, poodles not even well groomed.  Run away from that one.........The price is appalling and it doesn't cost $250 to ship a puppy, especially that size, to NJ either (I've done it when I shipped a pup to a friend last year and it was about 1/2 that).  You could fly to WI and back with the pup on the plane under your seat for less!

I wish you luck in your search for the right puppy, you are getting lots of good advice here.

IMO, one bad experience with a shelter dog doesn't mean you will have the same problem.  It also drives home the point that mixes are not necessarily healthier that purebreds since your pup had both seizures and temperament issues. 

I would still check out the ones on petfinder, you can always say "no" if they aren't right for you after meeting them plus the people adopting them out are concerned about the correct match and won't try to place a pup/dog with you that isn't right for you. (You must know that since you help with Golden rescue.)

polarexpress, I just wanted to warn lurkers that linebreeding isn't a bad thing and provide a proper context for that.
 
With regard to linebreeding in unproven, untested dogs which are,primarily, a source of income, line breeding might produce results that solidify a particularly unwanted genetic trait or condition.

Hi Brady - I wanted to say HI and WELCOME and thank you for doing research first     I'm so sorry that you had a bad experience with your shelter dog, and I know the desire to raise a puppy.   The first shelter dog I brought home was a Border Collie mix.  She had been stray for goodness knows how long but she seemed very sweet and loving at the shelter.   The day after I got her home she noticed my dwarf rabbit - she saw DINNER !   I was scared to beans for my bunny and regretfully and with tears in my eyes brought her back.  A week later the shelter called ME and told me about a cocker who had just been brought in - Michelle was my "heart dog" and we had 10 wonderful loving years together (she was between 2 & 3 when I adopted her).     Michelle passed on, and I now share my life with Prancer - a poodle mix I got from a rescue organization.    She's only 8 months old and pretty smart - she was housebroken in just a couple of weeks and since she's "older" I haven't had to worry about inappropriate chewing and a slew of other "young puppy" issues.  
You've gotten alot of great info so far and you're on the right track by going through the cockapoo orgs to find a breeder.   Keep checking petfinder - when a small breed comes in they tend to find homes quickly but while you're doing your breeder search you might just get lucky with Petfinder - and save a little dog at the same time.
All the best and don't go away from us cuz we're all going to want photos when you find the "one" that you'll be sharing your life with !

ORIGINAL: brandy76

He's charging $750 plust $250 for shipping.  I understand that reputable breeders have waiting lists, but how would I find these reputable breeders w/o the internet?

My purebred corgi came from a reputable breeder in Canada. She did NOT advertise the litter, and all the show quality pups were taken before they were even born. Shippo is one of the pet quality pups, and I found out about the litter through word-of-mouth. The parents were both show dogs and champions, both health tested and passed (and I checked myself by looking them up on the OFA website). Both the breeder and I screened the heck out of each other, both asking each other questions, etc.

Shippo is from two champions, is purebred, and was only $600 plus the $263 for the flight here, including the crate. He had his first shots and was microchipped and looked over by a vet before he came to me. He was kept till he was 12 weeks old - how long are those puppies on that website kept? I'm guessing till only 8 weeks.

I can see paying $600 for a PUREBRED dog from a REPUTABLE breeder, but I just can't see paying even MORE for a MIXED BREED dog from some BYB who advertises on a website known for attracting mostly BYBs, when you could get the same kind of dog from the same kind of breeding (crappy) from a shelter or rescue for HUNDREDS less, and save a life in the process.

[sm=2cents.gif]

Even though when Wisconsin isn't the first place anyone thinks of when they think of puppy mills I can tell you that the state is filled with them, many of them need to advertise over the internet because very few pet stores in the bigger cities sell puppies anymore.  I have met some of the cockapoos and other mixes being bred here and many of them are riddled in problems, both physical and mental.  I can't even begin to explain the variety of problems.
 
When I was young my family had a cocker spaniel with numerous problems, to this day I am the only one in my family to own another dog.  No one wants to go through what we went through again.  In fact we were told by 2 trainers to put him down before he was even a year old due to all the issues he had.  I only added that part to explain what happened to the cocker spaniels in years past because all the problems these dogs had are now being passed on to cockapoos.
 
I understand that you are looking for a smaller dog, and that you want a puppy, but if you are planning to buy one I would take a look at why a purebred might be a better choice as it would allow you to buy from a respectable breeder.
 
 

Brandy, I haven't read all the posts in this thread but I've read that you've had a bad experience with a rescue dog and that you live Bergen County. I was in the Bergen County shelter last weekend and I'm sure I saw a Cockapoo there.
 Maybe you would be interested in taking a look at him or her.
[linkhttp://www.co.bergen.nj.us/bcas/]http://www.co.bergen.nj.us/bcas/[/link] 
I've been looking for a dog and going through shelters and talking to breeders at dog shows about their dogs.
Honestly, I think it's a bad idea to buy a pup over the net. If I get a pup I want to meet the parents, at least the momma.
Good luck

Okay, I've got 2 things to add.

The first is that yes, shelter dogs can come with problem. My mom got a free Stafforshire from her vet as she was a found dog, found in a bad part of town that is prone to dog fighting. She was a sweet puppy, but came with a bladder problem that she has to take medication for or she'll pee all over the place. As she matured she became dog aggressive. You see, we got her as a puppy and she was fine with other dogs, but as she got older she was no longer fine with other dogs. Some people my mom has talked to, her vet and a trainer, think this is because of old memories resurfacing, we think she was used for bait or maybe they tried to train her to fight as she was afraid of bigger dogs when we first got her. So even having her from the time she was a puppy, she still has dog aggression problems. Now I have a shelter puppy and his temperment is awesome, he's got an attitude, but that's also because he's only 1. I'm having the normal puppy problems and though he's already been through puppy class and a basic obedience class, he still needs more and I just signed him up for one this afternoon. So not all puppies you get from shelters are going to be good adults.

My other point is, I disagree with good breeders not having to advertise. I had no luck whatsoever finding an Aussie breeder by word of mouth, as someone took it upon themselves to decide for me that an Aussie was not the right dog for me. This person even had the nerve to slander my name to her Aussie breeder friends who in turn slandered me to their friends. So you see, had I not been able to find a breeders website, I would have never gotten my Aussie. And she is a good breeder. She only bred my dogs mom twice and had her fixed after my dogs litter. She bred her other dog once and had her fixed after that litter. Now, 2 breeders I found in this state, I think are bad breeders. One turned me down without even talking to me based on what their breeder friend told them who had been told whatever he was told by the woman who didn't want me to have an Aussie. The next person turned me down because of these people. Now looking at them, I think they're bad breeders. The one bred a dog when she was just 2 years old. After their last litter they said they weren't going to have one for a while and all of a sudden they have one set up for this summer. The other one just bred one of their dogs and now their going to breed their other one to the same sire of the previous litter. And the first kennel is also going to use that sire. And to think, I was just reading about not overusing popular sires to keep the genetics diverse.

So you see why some of the time breeders having websites is a good idea? I'm glad I didn't get a puppy from that first breeder. I do want another Aussie some time in the future, seeing as I don't know any Aussie people, how am I going to find one if I can't find a breeders website? Yes, I know there are a lot of bad breeders on the internet, but there are good ones too. How else are those of us who want a certain breed of dog going to find one if we don't know anyone who has that breed?

I'm sorry, but I had to post my view on shelters and good breeders not having to advertise.

Shiva

There is nothing wrong with a breeder having a website.  Plenty of reputable breeders have websites, and those websites can be a way for otential puppy-buyers to find a reputable breeder. However, IMO, there is a big difference between a "breeder having a website" and a "breeder that sells puppies via the internet".  And if you spend enough time looking, you will see the difference.

ORIGINAL: Shiva

Okay, I've got 2 things to add.

The first is that yes, shelter dogs can come with problem. My mom got a free Stafforshire from her vet as she was a found dog, found in a bad part of town that is prone to dog fighting. She was a sweet puppy, but came with a bladder problem that she has to take medication for or she'll pee all over the place. As she matured she became dog aggressive. You see, we got her as a puppy and she was fine with other dogs, but as she got older she was no longer fine with other dogs. Some people my mom has talked to, her vet and a trainer, think this is because of old memories resurfacing, we think she was used for bait or maybe they tried to train her to fight as she was afraid of bigger dogs when we first got her. So even having her from the time she was a puppy, she still has dog aggression problems.

Actually, it's common for American pit bull terriers, American Staffordshire Terriers, and Staffordshire Bull Terriers (I believe Bull terriers might be included as well) to become dog aggressive as they mature into adult dogs. It's part of their genetic make up because unfortunately, way back when, people have bred the most dog aggressive dogs to the point that now it's genetic.

The breeder I got Tojo from has a website and a listing and an ad in the annual "Dogs in Canada" issue. The annual has a list of lots of breeders for all different breeds and a section just for ads from breeders called "breeder's showcase". Advertising isn't really the problem, and neither is having a website. Why, even our dear Gina has a website!

You have to be careful of who you buy from no matter how you hear about a breeder.