How long will the hybrid craze last?

I just wanted to add that we can't *really* say that dogs are more disease prone now than they used to be. Who was keeping record of how many dogs got parvo or hip dysplacia?

Especially for the lurkers, let's get some definitions straight.
 

ORIGINAL: mrv
Hybrids refer to a mix of species (ie wolf dog, coy dog, dingo dog). 

[linkhttp://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hybrid]http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hybrid[/link]
"hybrid - noun
1.  the offspring of two animals or plants of different breeds, varieties, species, or genera, esp. as produced through human manipulation for specific genetic characteristics."

ORIGINAL:  DumDog
ok no such thing as a hypoallergenic mammal, ESPECIALLY a dog...... that's not even close to living in reality.  

[linkhttp://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hypoallergenic]http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hypoallergenic[/link]
"hypoallergenic -adj
designed to reduce or minimize the possibility of an allergic response"
 
Note that the definition does not say eliminate the possibility of an allergic response.
 

ORIGINAL:  DumDog
Anyways "designer dogs" are not a fad... they've always existed."  

Well, if one really wants to be silly, a "designer dog" is any dog whose breeder deliberately breeds them.  That breeder has a "design" (define as "purpose") be it money, happiness, a new breed, a working dog, a pet, etc.
 
My definition of today's term "designer dog" is an animal who is the off-spring of two purebred dogs of different breeds where the mating (deliberate or not) had no purpose other than to produce puppies and to satisfy a biological urge.  The better breeders of such dogs
(1)  make sure that the arents are free of health problems,
(2)  through genetic evaluation make every effort to insure that no pup will inherit a hidden health problem (that is, two copies of a bad recessive gene - one from each parent),
(3)  only breed when they have a waiting list of screened applicants,
(4)  insist that the pups be neutered, and
(5)  carefully socialize their pups. 
The worst of these breeders are standard BYBers and puppymillers who do none of those things and may not actually be breeding purebred dogs.
 
Note: When you breed two purebred dogs, the pups will have a miscellaneous mixture of the characteristics of the parents.  When you breed two "designer dogs", you will get pups that have a mixture of the characteristics of the grandparents. 

Your comment about Paris Hilton adopting from a shelter got me thinking. I adopted my pup from a shelter. She's an adorable corgi/beagle mix. When I told my mom the mix she said, "How cute, she's a borgi!" I cringed. Not that my mom would go find a breeder to get a pup like mine, but that made me think that others might. I never tell strangers what her mix is...only that she's a mutt and that we got her from a great shelter. We paid $85 and that included her first round of shots, a voucher for her spay, and a voucher for as many hw treatments she needed until she got a negative test result. That usually gets them more interested in the shelter than her mix.

And a question. Her legs are very turned out, especially when she sits. Should I be concerned about that, or is it normal for a corgi mix?

I do believe that so much inbreeding has caused [emphasis added] a lot of health problems in dogs. You can't dispute that fact - well you can try but you are wasting your energy.

Well, I guess it is my energy to waste.
 
Inbreeding doesn't create bad genes that produce disease or deformity.  It doesn't create gene modifications that cause changes in appearance.  Nature does that.
 
Inbreeding just makes the gene pool smaller.  In a small gene pool that contains a bad recessive gene, a pup is more likely to get two copies of the gene (one from each parent) and to have the problem. 
 
However, inbreeding can allow the breeder to completely eliminate that gene from his/her gene pool.  The breeder can then outcross to other breeders that have done the same thing in order to help to reexpand the gene pool. 
 
Is gene manipulation easy?  No!  Do some breeders do it badly due to ignorance or carelessness.  Yes!  Do I personally understand the in's and out's of gene manipulation.  Nope!
 
Should inbreeding be used for anything other than the elimination of a bad gene?  That would be interesting to discuss in the breeding section.

ORIGINAL: meilani


Boston Terriers can and do free whelp. The reason a lot of them don't free whelp is due to uterine inertia and the fact that breeders aren't willing to risk the lives of the dam and ups to see if she can free whelp.

ORIGINAL: dumdog
 
But thats what i'm talking about. what the heck is uterine inertia? i've heard of infections of the uterus in dogs, no matter what breed, but never heard of this. just like a lot of the diseases you hear about today.. did they even really exist pre-1800s? (thats when dog shows and closed registries came about) i'm sure they existed, but i dont think they were as rampant as they are today.

 
Uterine Inertia is when the uterus doesn't contract in order to give birth. It can range from not contracting at all or stop contracting while in whelp. Did it exist back then? I'm sure it did. I don't think it's any more rampant now than it was back then. The difference between now and then is that veterinary technology has advanced to the point where there's a name for it, it's been studied and there's research and reports on it.
 

Like i said, natural selection weeded out the weaker animals. if they couldnt reproduce and give birth the way God intended then those animals didnt pass on their genes.

 
But the domesticated dog isn't a God made animal. It's a human made animal that was created by breeding for specific traits. If humans didn't intervene by stealing wolf cubs, taming wolves and raising wolves the domestic dog would've never exist. If dogs were to revert to being "wild", they'd be medium in size, be dun colored, have small prick ears and would have a tail that curls.
 

And who ever decided it was a bright idea to AI females that wouldnt stand for a male should be shot. Again i mention one of my cousins. she has to HOLD the female chihuahua to get her to breed with the male.. this is the one that has only had one puppy out of four breedings to survive.

 
Sounds like the bitch shouldn't have been bred at all. Considering I don't know your cousin and how responsible she is towards the breed, I really can't comment in depth on her situation.

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

How long will the hybrid craze last?

About as long as there are stupid people willing to pay $1500+ for a somethingdoodle or a whatsitpoo. [:'(]

Hee Hee Hee[]  Whatsitpoo...that's great.  I want a hamsterpoo - LOL.

ORIGINAL: TheSchmee

Your comment about Paris Hilton adopting from a shelter got me thinking. I adopted my pup from a shelter. She's an adorable corgi/beagle mix. When I told my mom the mix she said, "How cute, she's a borgi!" I cringed. Not that my mom would go find a breeder to get a pup like mine, but that made me think that others might. I never tell strangers what her mix is...only that she's a mutt and that we got her from a great shelter. We paid $85 and that included her first round of shots, a voucher for her spay, and a voucher for as many hw treatments she needed until she got a negative test result. That usually gets them more interested in the shelter than her mix.

And a question. Her legs are very turned out, especially when she sits. Should I be concerned about that, or is it normal for a corgi mix?

Yah, my relatives were talking about cute "designer dog names" at Christmas.  They are good people, who always adopt from a shelter, but they don't know the first thing about the influence of designer dogs on shelter dogs.  My cousins thought my dog was cute at my wedding, saw a shnoodle at a pet store and bought 2.  Grrrr.  I should have put in our wedding bulletin that he was a rescue.

I want a hamsterpoo
 
Lol....are they small and dark brown by any chance? LMAO...

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles

I want a hamsterpoo

Lol....are they small and dark brown by any chance? LMAO...

Yep, but they bite and habitually run around in circles.  They also need something to chew on otherwise they'll large incisor teeth will grow into their brain and kill them.

ORIGINAL: DumDog

WARNING: Long freakin rant ahead - Proceed with Caution

First let me say this is all my own opinion built upon my own research and personal experience with dogs..
Condemn me all you want for my own personal opinions, doesnt bother me much. But i prefer to be respected for having my own opinions just as i respect others for having theirs. I only say this because i have been to other forums that got NASTY because someone spoke their mind. Just like that girl who was happy to finally own a dog, i've seen other inocent people get ripped to pieces by  people who  wanted to be ugly.

ok no such thing as a hypoallergenic mammal, ESPECIALLY a dog...... that's not even close to living in reality.
If blind people with allergies need a dog that doesnt shed as much then why not just train a poodle to lead the blind? why mix it?
Also, all breeds are mutts. mutts are not a bad thing. in my mind, pure breds are a bad thing.... but truth be known, i hate the AKC and other clubs like it with a vehement passion because it has RUINED and STILL ruining many breeds.

Irish Setters, Irish Wolfhounds, English Bulldogs, Mastiffs, German Shepherds, Chihauhuas, Boston Terriers..... ok i dont want to type the whole bloody registry.... but those breeds are the most maligned when it comes to health issues.

The Irish Wolfhound was a breed that should have slipped gracefully into extinction. I'm sorry but i am realist. In their efforts to "preserve" this breed they ruined it AND tainted its blood with great dane and scottish deerhound. when they finally got their outcrossings to breed "true to type" they began the OTHER reason why i hate closed registries... they started breeding only to those dogs.. which ultimately is something we call INBREEDING!! These days most IWs are lucky to live past the age of five... they run the risk of bone cancer, bloat, hip/elbow/skin/eye problems, etc etc. I've seen hampsters outlive most IWs....

Boston Terriers, English Bulldogs,  Mastiffs and Chihuahuas are for the most part unable to give natural birth. Boston Terrier's are "America's First Registered Mutt" in my little ole humble opinion.... i love them, they're cute as can be, but they're still registered mutts that cant have natural birth. that is my only complaint about them as i dont really know much about the breed. but if modern science ever goes away then these breeds will be on the list for extinct breeds.

German Shepherds started out as a good idea.... wolf outcrossings with herding dogs.. clever, yes. A wolf's natural ability to control a herd with just one look, he's strong enough to take on a full grown ram head to head, he's also like most other german breeds, suited do almost any other job out there..... but Function  gave way to Fashion.... now he  has that hideous roached back, bad hips, bad temper(in the wrong hands, yes, but not always. i've seen some REALLY psychotic GSDs that even profesionals couldnt fix) and any other health problem that effects most other pure breds. People are finally getting a clue and the sloping hips arent as popular but the damage has been done.

Dont even get me started on the English Bulldog.... You wanna talk about DESIGNER DOGS?! [sm=soap%20box.gif]

Now, I might be over stepping my bounds here, you guys dont know me all that well yet, but i am one of those individuals that believes a dog needs a purpose in life. EVERY dog. When you get down to the bare metal of the issue you soon realise that a dog is just another tool invented by man to get a job done. Honestly people dont need dogs anymore because we are more advanced in a lot of things - though S&R is still pretty important and people have yet to come up with an arteficial sniffer... that i know of. But any job a dog does has already been replaced. We have home security systems with alarms and dispatchers that supposedly respond emediately, we have mace, tazers, and hand guns for personal protection, and most people dont need to hunt because we have supermarkets, and the livestock doesnt need herding anymore because everything is factory farmed. But people still want to keep the dog around as a companion. What REALLY makes me angry is people getting a dog, then another dog, and then another, and then they either kennel them or chain them up. they ignore them except to throw some food and water at them. yell at them when they bark, yell at them when they dig, yell at them when they get excited and jump on people, then they yell at them because someone broke into the house, the dog didnt bark, didnt protect anyone, and ran and hid until the ordeal was over. Why have a dog if you're going to treat it that way? People like that should not even bring a gold fish into their life, let alone a dog!
I like working dogs a lot, i own working dogs, and have always owned working dogs. mine dont have titles and champion bloodlines, but to me, my dogs are champs all by themselves. I know that even though Kaydee is down in her legs that she still can and WILL lay down her life to protect me and my family. I live in a very remote area filled with bears, wild hogs, feral dogs, coyotes, bob cats, and vagrants. I want a dog smart enough to know when to be protective and when to accept what i accept. I know there are several breeds or individual dogs out there that can do that, but so far the American Bulldog is the only CONSISTANT dog i have ever found. I own three... they're all the same. My grand parents owned several and they all were the same. They know their job and they do it. You havent lived until you've seen your dog do a head count to make sure all the kids are safe.

Also - No i dont like designer breeds.... not even a little bit. BUT I DO LIKE IMPROVING UNHEALTHY DOGS!!!
The purpose of a dog show/club/registry is to keep track of history. I dont like people slinging the term "Mutt" around like its an insult. I dont care if you a labradoodle or a cockadoodle... Does it have a purpose? Can it hunt birds better than its predessors? Is it healthy? Is it stable minded? I personally wouldnt care if the AKC fell apart tomorrow and every dog was allowed interbred with each other.
Before there were dog clubs and "fanciers" dogs had jobs. there was a certain amount of natural selection in those jobs. i know a lot about history, and i dont remember ever reading about pet over population in any of my history books.
Also, just because a dog is a certain breed doesnt mean it cant do ANY job. My grandad had an Airdale that could hunt racoons, pheasant, deer, squirrels, and track wounded game in the field, not to mention he was a beloved family member. My grandad also trained my grandmother's pet chihuahua to track and retrieve squirrels. He wasnt a breeder of dogs for a profit but when his dogs did have puppies he made sure they had jobs. To get a dog from that man was like recieving a luxery car.. didnt matter what breed or mix it was.


Anyways "designer dogs" are not a fad... they've always existed. thats why we have miniature poodles, miniature pinschers, miniature schnauzers, Alaskan Huskies, Dobermans, Bull Mastiffs, JTRs and other such popular mutts.
Yeah they have been breeding "true to type" for for several years,some of them hundreds, but they were still mutts that finally got themselves accepted into another dog club.
Honestly if my American Bulldogs ever end up in the AKC i dont think i'll ever own another dog again.... i'll just remember fondly how i used to have the perfect dog....
-end rant

Never have I read a post word by word and with such intensity!!!  I agree with just about everything that you have stated except the part in which you said that you didn't care if the AKC fell apart tomorrow.... 
 
I couldn't agree more with your statement on american bulldogs...they certainly have a predictable temperament in every way...from strong guarding instincts which I have to say I am estatic about to strong hunting instincts in which I often wish he was lacking in that dept. but as you said they sure are "consistent."[]  High and secure fencing keeps the nearby livestock safe and training ensures that for as long as I'm within eye sight he knows better than to misbehave but as they say when the cat's away....

Any dog can do any job if they have the right trainer and the mind for it. i mean, i've seen Papillions herding sheep on Animal Planet... why not? it might be dangerous for the dog however... but he was darn sure herding him some sheep!

I'd hate to see that poor Papillion hooked up with my dogs to a sled. And I doubt it would do much against someone breaking into your house. What about Police Dog work. I believe that statement is flawed at best. You wouldn't see my dogs ratting tunnels or guarding the house. I don't even think they could be trained to do police work. Possible search and rescue but even that is iffy. Crusher was born to run, plain and simple. Born to it, not trained to it. Nothing else would ever make him happy.

To mmtomason and your remarks-- I bought the dog because I wanted her, I love her and that's it.  I've never seen one like her in the dog pound and you can not even find a pekitese on the internet cause she is a mutt, I know that, I don't have to be told that.  To me she is gorgeous and the best friend I've ever had in my old age..

Also, as I said in my first post, this was my first dog and I didn't even know what a designer breed dog was, so why put me down like that?  My dog is now 7 years old, very healthy with no problems at all and I still stay in touch with the woman who bred them, she lives a few blocks away from me. 

Well said, Auburn![sm=wink2.gif]

Thanks rexandbaby. From April, my mutt, as I've been told so many times in here. [][]