Dogs need to eat

    • Gold Top Dog

    Dogs need to eat

    I need an education or if someone can reference a website to me.  Can anyone describe the time span and stages a dog goes through when food is not available plentifully.  I know this is not an easy subject to stomach (excuse the pun), but all the fosters that come to my home are in need of good meals.  The latest foster I have came to me pretty skinny but very active.  Others that have come and refuse to eat even though they are starving.  Others act normal.  I am interested to know so I can guage the severity and I have notice difference in temperment and behavior.
    Here is a link to my lastest foster.

    [linkhttp://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=298953]http://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=298953[/link] .  I chose this one because I don't think it is too graphic as the others. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    Well, my experience with Willow was that she was about 10 lbs underweight.  And, refused all but a few treats and some lunch meat and table foods like that for just about a month before she started eating her appropriate meals.  I think they get to a point where they aren't hungry anymore--I don't know what they is exactly but I think it happens.  And, then once in a new situation they need to adjust to that too so it takes some time for them to start eating normally. 
     
    Hope that helps some.[:)]
    • Gold Top Dog
    I don't think anything exists that is as concrete as you are wishing for.  At least not in my experience. 
     
    I too have had many come thru my doors who were in various stages of starving -- and all with very different responses to food.  I honestly think it has much to do with the dog's personal temperament, what sort of abuse/neglect went on  and the animal's own conclusions as to trust in this new situation.
     
    I had one dog who was a mere whisper but she had been abused emotionally mercilessly -- it had been someone's mission in life to just plain terrify Millie (my name for her -- I took her off the street).  This dog was literally 'gun shy' (I took her out of the ghetto) and any strong/loud/staccato sound would send her orbital and leave her trembling for hours. 
     
    It took me weeks to get her to trust me enough to eat and enjoy food.  Food had obviously been used as part of the terror campaign by humans -- food from your hand was NEVER to be trusted.  Kibble made noise -- it was scarey.  The idea of having to stand where others were (I don't allow 'stealing' from each other -- everyone pretty well puts their nose in their dish and eats and leaves everyone alone, and mealtime is quiet and peaceful) scared her and it took her days to eat much at all (and only then, I think, because it smelled so good). 
     
    Conversely, I had another dog who had been horribly starved.  She was a puppy (only 5 months old when we took her) and had been so failing to thrive (mostly from gross starvation) that the mere sight of food sent her into a panic.  If anyone even stepped TO the kitchen she would panic, cry and completly fall apart with the anticipation that she was gong to EAT.  She would gorge whatever she got and I had to hand-feed her to keep her eating slowly enough so she oculd digest it.
     
    And I have had them in all stages of in between.  But honestly when we take in these souls who have known such deprivation and abuse, I think food becomes this incredibly complex issue -- some of it may be 'stages' (where they become so unused to food that they almost can't process it -- that happens in humans who are anorexic and literally can't eat normally for a long time after beginning to eat again), but it think a good share of it is also mental and emotional. 
     
    In a normal state most dogs will become aggressive to get food (and kill if need be to feed themselves).  But not all have those alpha tendencies.  So I think you get this complicated ball of whatever trauma they've been thru -- was the dog simply feral and on its own in an area where there was no natural food source, or was it a victim of abuse by humans or other animals who wouldn't allow it to eat, etc.  Add to that their own personality  -- if they distrust humans it may be very difficult for them to allow themselves to take food from you, despite the fact that others in your care may have no such qualms about it. 
     
    Fear can be a powerful motivator.  It can drive a dog not to accept help despite it being freely offered.  Or it can also temp an animal to gorge now because it's afraid food will be withdrawn later. 
     
    I wish I had something more concrete to offer you.  Learning to crawl inside their brains and figure out what motivates them is a life-long study -- at least for me.
     
    As you unravel the mystery of Essie, please share it -- I truly think that what one of us learns can be incredible valuable to others.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Thanks Callie for sharing your experience.  You have made me think of other factors going on.  When I get a new dog I tend to treat the dog as if their birthday is the day they come to my home.  Whatever issues they come with from their past I look at as being unnecessary and gently treat them going forward. 
     
    I have had two fosters that refused to eat and they cause me the most worry.  It was always a gamble as to whether they choose to eat or not.  Lady a Field Pointer (my avatar) gave me the hardest time.  I had to be very creative to get food in her and eventually (months) she started eating normal.  Tessa, a Shepherd Boxer mix, taught me how to feed her.  She would only take small portions at a time and she would signal me when she would be ready for the next feeding.  All the other fosters are like Marvin (in my signature) or his original name was Starvin Marvin.  He had the great attitude and seem to say to me “if you feed me I will look good, if not, oh well”. 
     
    I guess I started this thread to get an understanding of how long it takes a dog to get to this state and how people can allow this to happen.  I don#%92t know if its takes 3 days with no food or a couple of weeks.  All of us experience our dogs not eating for a day and if it continues a second day, we take the dog to the vet.  How many days until our pets look like Essie.  In my past I had a Great Dane with megaesophagus and with this disease the dog slowly starves to death.  I have totally blocked this experience from my mind.  As I said, I am just wondering the what happens or whats the impact on the dog's body if the dog is not fed.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I think again it's going to depend on the circumstance a great deal.  In Pollyanna's case (the young 5 mos old female who was so starved) -- I think it was probably her whole life from 'memory'.  I know there was originally 3 siblings in this one home (not the parents -- somehow these idiots took THREE puppies).  Two were drowned (I think they were tied and it was back to the spring 2 years ago when we had SO much rain).  I don't know if they were too injured by the abuser to move out of the water or if they were somehow tethered and drowned but I know Polly was terrified of water and I was told by Animal Control (who confiscated Polly and she was the only survivor of the abuse) she had been left with the bodies of her sibs and saw them drown. 
     
    All this occurred over weeks.  I think hunger was simply a part of her life.  I think meals were few and far between.  I think her fear took longer than days - I think it simply evolved.  There was 'panic' when she was around food -- trying to scramble for it before it evaporated or was withdrawn. 
     
    Millie, on the other paw, I think she learned in fits and spurts because her responses to food were learned behaviors based on abuse.  When a hand holding food HITS you (closed fist we assumed eventually) it doesn't take you long to be wary of food extended.  You wait til the human leaves completely before you chance to eat.  If that means the food leaves so be it -- you eat the next time.
     
    An animal that is simply feral ... where food is scarce ... that takes a longer time because it's simply the scarcity of food that is the problem, rather than fear associated with it.
     
    I used to view it simply as a 'new start' when they came to us ... but eventually had to get more in tune with desensitizing them so they could approach normal behavior more fully and more rapidly.
     
    I do also tend to deal with timid ones rather than more alpha animals -- it just tends to be the weak, sick ones I wind up with.  That aspect of the animal's personality is also going to greatly affect their response to hunger because a more alpha animal will pursue food more aggressively.  Make sense?  I'm not 'guiding' here -- just trying to make my observations 'fit' into something that may be helpful (or not) to you.  No across the board generalizations.
    • Gold Top Dog
    This site explains clearly (to me) what happens at the beginning and gives some advice on  recovery feeding : [linkhttp://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/recovery.html]http://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/recovery.html[/link]
     
    This one is not about dogs but explains what happens as starvation progresses : [linkhttp://www.mhhe.com/biosci/ap/vdgconcepts/digestive/reading5.mhtml]http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/ap/vdgconcepts/digestive/reading5.mhtml[/link]
     
    Hope this helps.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Yes, thank you for the links.  Its all done within a week, it happens so fast but it takes so long to recover.
    • Gold Top Dog