Crating your dogs is a terrible thing???

Yeah... left to his own devices, Rascal would sleep 20 hours of the day and destroy stuff the other 4.

Maybe it's cruel/not nice/whatever to keep a dog in a crate while you're at work all day... but if you asked Rascal, he'd tell you it's cruel/not nice/whatever to leave the dog anywhere (except with you) while you're at work all day, and he will express his distress by shredding everything he can.

The dogs I grew up with never used crates. They never needed them. Rascal had never been crated when I got him. But experience has shown me that for his physical (and mental) well-being, a crate is the way to go when he has to be left alone. A nice big crate with lots of squishy, comfy blankets to curl up in to encourage sleeping instead of pacing/chewing/stressing.

All that said, the author of that article does have some good points:

Believe it or not, there is a humane alternative. It's called "taking proper care of your dog." Cesar Millan, TV's "Dog Whisperer," believes that exercise is one of dogs' most important needs, yet it is often ignored, or at least undersatisfied, by many if not most canine guardians. Dogs want to run and sniff and explore. They want to take several long walks every day, play games of fetch and frolic with other dogs in the dog park. Dogs who get to do these things are usually tired dogs, and tired dogs want to sleep while you're away at work, not "redecorate" the living room.

Dogs also need a potty break during the day - don't you? Sticking dogs in crates and making them "hold it" for eight hours or more isn't the solution - coming home from work at lunchtime, installing a doggie door or hiring a dog walker is.

I think we'd all argue that exercise and potty breaks are a good idea! I just think for many of us, we consider it as an addition to crate training, instead of a "humane alternative." I'm willing to bet the author of this article never had a neurotic, separation anxiety afflicted, mentally unbalanced dog. Crate-free can be great for good old mellow, reliable Rover, but not the best option for many dogs. 

he he he, send that woman a basenji puppy.  One like this one . . .

When I rescued my Basenji, Penny, she was very ill with mange, hookworms, roundworms, dehydration, and malnutrition. While I had great hopes that she would heal into a happy, healthy dog, the first few weeks were rough. She was hairless and skittish, and she spewed diarrhea all over my living room the first moment after I brought her home. Cleaning cost: $250.

She was very weak and could barely eat, so I thought, foolishly, “What harm could this sick Basenji do if I left her alone for 20 minutes?” I had heard the tales of separation-anxiety and destruction but assumed that she was too ill to cause any damage. I had planned to crate her, but I felt so sorry for the sick thing, asleep on the couch in the sun, that I left her alone.

That weak, sick, bald, timid little creature (who could even climb stairs at this point) summarily and completely destroyed the room where I left her. Here is the list: She removed all the molding around every window; removed the baseboards on every wall; gutted a sofa; trashed the screens on every window; annihilated the mini-blinds on every window; removed the screen door from its hinges and somehow mangled it into an almost-unrecognizable hunk of twisted metal; severed three Ficus tree trunks; tore up the carpet in all four corners; destroyed eight throw pillows; removed and shredded the cane seats of two chairs; toppled six potted plants and dragged potting soil throughout the room; and capsized and broke a glass-topped coffee table. Repair and replacement cost: $1,200. 

This was while she weighed barely 15 pounds and had to be spoon-fed.  The morals of my story: 

1. Do not ever underestimate the destructive power of your Basenji;
2. For the love of God, crate your Basenji;
3. Do not assume that your Basenji will “get over” any initial separation-anxiety (last year I left her alone for 10 minutes and I replaced $400 worth of mini-blinds).

If you can respect these constraints (which will vary from Basenji to Basenji, of course), you can live in harmony with your beast . . . but you must never forget that these animals never forget that you are human. :)

 the above taken from the BRAT webpage for educational purposes

http://www.basenjirescue.org/REALITY STORIES/Ugly.htm

What REALLY bugs me about the anti-crating people is that they always assume one of two explanations: we are too lazy to properly train/exercise our dogs and/or our dogs have separation anxiety and we are too lazy to deal with it.  For a lot of people, crating has nothing to do with either of those problems.  My dogs are crate trained because I cannot guarantee that there will never be a time when someone will come over who is afraid of dogs, or we will have to travel with the dogs, or the dogs might have to travel on a plane, or the dogs are entered in a show (wire crating is required)....For me, crating is not about what *I* am willing to deal with, but what could happen in circumstances beyond *my* control.  Tomorrow I'm going to a rally and obedience match in East Lansing.  Kenya LOVES these things so why should I deny her the chances to show and perform simply because someone else thinks ALL crates are inhumane and probably has never even been to or competed in a show where crating is required for the safety of everyone? Two weeks ago we had to travel.  I had a choice between taking Kenya along and keeping her gated or crated in a room while my infant nephew was awake (other times she was allowed out, went hiking on trails, played games in the yard, went on long walks around the neighborhood) or boarding her in a kennel where she would be kept in a tiny cement cell for 8 straight days with no exercise and little human contact.  Keeping her in a crate for an hour or two at a time while the baby was awake seemed like the obvious choice to me.  Again, that had nothing to do with separation anxiety or destructiveness (neither are an issue for us), simply circumstances that were beyond my control.  I'm glad she is crate trained and rested quietly in her crate, taking turns being out (baby/dog) rather than me having to leave her at the boarding kennel for the holiday *shudder*.

My view on crating is that it's a training tool, specifically for the puppy stage, to aid in house training and also for the safety of the dog and your house during the destructive phase. I don't see putting a puppy in a crate as being any different than putting a baby in a crib or playpen when you can't watch them. It's also something that a normal dog should grow out of though. Another use may be for a dog with severe seperation anxiety who otherwise might end up at the pound over and over again, or of course travel or recovering from an illness. I do use crates, and now that my dogs are one year old, we are in the process of phasing them out. They have been uncrated at night since six months and I am starting to leave them out, either in the kitchen or bedroom, for short times, errands and whatnot. I am lucky though in that I work part time and there is only one day per week that DH and I are both gone. For people who are gone all day, there are alternatives I like better, like baby gates, dog rooms, doggy daycare, dog walkers.....etc.

I do think there is such a thing as over crating. I think that a 10 hour day in the crate, followed by 8 hours at night is too much. I think even a 10 hour day, every day, without a break, is too much. Heck, I think as a society we work too much and are away from our families too much, and I think our dogs and our kids and us as adults don't get enough free time. We've got hyper dogs, hyper kids, we're stressed out....I think everyone needs more time out of crates, classrooms, and cubicles, and more runs in the park.....but that's just me.

 So yeah, to sum that up, crates are best used in moderation.

Okay, yeah, I've bitten my tongue long enough as well. 

PETA isn't all bad. I do think that some of their efforts are extreme, however, they have done and continue to do a lot of good for the animal world.  IMO that cannot be discounted.  Not all PETA supporters are gung ho crazy fools.  I do support PETA - and I am not a crazy fool.  This is one woman's viewpoint and I do agree with some of her observations, but not all.  I don't agree with a dog being crated for hours and hours on end with no potty breaks and no room to move around - only let out long enough to go potty and then right back in the crate and basically ignored. IMO that is no way to live.  I wouldn't want a life like that.  It's a highly debatable topic and we are all entitled to our opinions.

 i refuse to support an organistion that thinks its their purpose to do away with animal companions and force that opinion on.. THE WORLD.. fine.. if they think its wrong to eat meat and own a pet.. good on them. they dont have to do either of those things. but they are pushing BSL, they are pushing shelters to euth perfectly healthy animals, and they are pushing people around for their personal beliefs and preferences. Sorry Sunshine.. PETA does not support you.

DumDog

PETA does not support you.

Here are a few other things.

I've been a vegetarian for 16 years, have been an animal lover my entire life, and do not reject out of hand the idea that animals have some kind of rights, which a lot of people think automatically makes me a supporter of PETA.

And they would be wrong because I am most emphatically not.  

Beyond all the things they are against that I do not totally reject (pet ownership, zoological parks, humane farming for eggs and dairy), my main issue is this: They make me and people like me look very very bad. I actually want them off of my team because they make everyone else hate my entire team, which is unfair but I can understand why people do have a kneejerk reaction the minute I say "Oh, well, I"m a vegetarian" if the only other people they've heard talking about being vegetarian are also people who condemn all pet ownership, support BSL, and act like there are only black and white in issues that are actually replete with shades of gray. I hate that in the same breath as saying I'm a vegetarian and the rights of animals concern me I have to also give this little speech about how no really, I'm not crazy, I'm not an extremist, I'm not a terrorist, I'm not a member of PETA or any such organization, and I am perfectly capable of thinking for myself and seeing all sides of nuanced issues. And I blame PETA for that very much.

 HL, i gotta admit i used to be one of those "kneejerk" people when i heard the word "vegetarian" lol it wasnt until i joined this forum - and a few other individuals i've met in the past - that put an end to that..

i've learned that someones diet is a choice and sometimes a temporary choice. my sister, God bless her, swore off eating pork when she dissected a pig fetus in biology class..... not all meat... just pork! wouldnt touch the stuff..... until my dad bar b qued a rack of ribs a month later...she was all over those things like red paint on a fur coat!!

i believe in moderations.... in all things.. diet and training methods.. i dont want to eat JUST meat or JUST veggies and i dont want to lock my dogs ALL the time... again what would be the point of having a dog?  

I realize this is an issue that is never going to be resolved where 100% of people agree (is there any issue like that? )  But why must people (not here, but people like that author) put down others, or try to make them feel badly, for disagreeing?  There are several reasons people us crates.  And I agree it shouldn't be 24/7.  We use crates for everyone but Blaze and I'd love to be able to get rid of them entirely...but its not gonna happen.  I have an all female pack and one of them is an Akita.  Akita's are known to be aggressive toward other dogs of the same sex.  We've only ever had one issue but it would be totally irresponsible of me to leave them out together when no one is home to make sure everything is ok.  And maybe one day I'll have a place with enough doors to be able to leave her in a separate room when we are gone and everyone can be out, but right now I don't and I'm just trying to do the best I can to keep everyone safe.  Crates, like anything can be misused, but they also can be  useful.  Just my 2 cents thrown in for what it's worth.

ETA: I'm sure PETA has done SOME good things for animals and was probably even started with good intentions, but the craziness they've done has overshadowed that, I think. 

My I am talkative this evening!

The only reason Kord is crated is because at 16 weeks old he proved that leaving him alone for even 10 min unsupervised could lead to destruction. Thankfully the only things I had to replace was a 5lb bag of flour and the filter on my vacuum. It gave me a place to put him should I need to do something that did not require hyper active German shepherd puppy supervision, I know such things are unheard of but...

Kord is 17months old now, and the only time his crate door is shut is when we go out, out in the yard to work or out for adult human time, again things that do not require hyper active  German shepherd teenager supervision......... the longest he was crated. Back in May for about 6 hours while my husband collected me from the hospital where I had to spend the night due to an infection.

I know there are people out there that do abuse it, but overall the people who do use crates are responsible and in the interest of their dogs safety. Heck the boy starts the evening off on the bed and then goes and sleeps in his crate, I find him snoozing in there more than anywhere else in the house.

Give me a break.

One thing that I am seeing in these posts is the idea of "I crate but only .....".  People there is no reason to apologize or have to give any reasons for your decision.  It's your dog and no one repeat no one has any right or business to question your decision.  Has the pressure from the anti's who don't want you to do this or that so much that you have to justify your answer for if it has then they are winning.

In fact my answer to the crating question is yes I have and it's none of anyone's business as to the specifics.

Timsdat, your so right. But it is so fun to share funny stories of why we do indeed crate And it makes that PITA ...no wait, it's PETA...yeah that person, look like a fool.

I still have the pictures of Kord's flour caper, they amuse me and remind of what a monster he was at first, and how much he has grown, and how fun he can be, and why I love puppies. The one of him with flour all over his face and the pleading look, still make me melt.

Just like my new signature below. The hambone!

I think the thing that bothers me in articles like this is that there is no consideration for the pros and cons of the topic at hand.  I do believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I feel that you come off sounding closed minded if you generalize without even considering alternative methods.  The article just kind of makes me sad, as I don't like ignorance or closed minded-ness.  I fully believe that if you're going to take such a strong stance on a topic, at least have ALL sides of the issue stated before you declare your opinion.  Had she done that, she would have made a more sound argument for her non-crate opinion.

And having said that, I'll just say that my opinion of crates is the total opposite of hers.

Sunshinegirl

Okay, yeah, I've bitten my tongue long enough as well. 

PETA isn't all bad. 

Really?  But hey, don't take my word for it, here are some quotes from big shots in PETA---

"Even if animal research resulted in a cure for AIDS, we'd be against it." -- Ingrid Newkirk, President, PETA 

"To those people who say, `My father is alive because of animal experimentation,' I say `Yeah, well, good for you. This dog died so your father could live.' Sorry, but I am just not behind that kind of trade off." -- Bill Maher, PETA celebrity spokesman.

On the consequences of stopping animal research: "Don't get the diseases in the first place, schmo." -- PETA's David Mathews

"Arson, property destruction, burglary and theft are 'acceptable crimes' when used for the animal cause." -- Alex Pacheco, Director, PETA.

"Andrew Cunanan, because he got Versace to stop doing fur." -- PETA's David Mathews reply to Genre magazine's request for "Men We Love"

"Six million Jews died in concentration camps, but six billion broiler chickens will die this year in slaughter houses." -- Ingrid Newkirk, PETA's President, The Washington Post

"It would be really great if all these fast-food outlets, slaughter houses, these laboratories and the banks who fund them exploded tomorrow --" Peta Spokesperson Bruce Friedrich.

"If people had companion animals in their homes, those animals would have to be refugees from the animal shelters and the streets. You would have a protective relationship with them just as you would with an orphaned child. But as the surplus of cats and dogs (artificially engineered by centuries of forced breeding) declined, eventually companion animals would be phased out, and we would return to a more symbiotic relationship - enjoyment at a distance" -- Ingrid Newkirk, PETA's President, quoted in The Harper's Forum Book, Jack Hitt, ed., 1989, p.223.

"I am not only uninterested in having children. I am opposed to having children. Having a purebred human baby is like having a purebred dog; it is nothing but vanity, human vanity." --Ingrid Newkirk

 "We feel animals have the same rights as a retarded human child." -Alex Pacheco (PETA)

“There is no hidden agenda. If anybody wonders about -- what’s this with all these reforms -- you can hear us clearly. Our goal is total animal liberation. [emphasis added]” -- Ingrid Newkirk

 "In response to Animal Liberation Front violence in the Pacific Northwest:  "We cannot condemn the Animal Liberation Front...they act courageously, risking their freedom and their careers to stop the terror inflicted every day on animals in the labs. [ALF's activities] comprise an important part of today's animal protection movement." --PETA statement

 “Pet ownership is an absolutely abysmal situation brought about by human manipulation.” --Ingrid Newkirk