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    • Gold Top Dog

    rwbeagles
    un pitty looking a pitty

    I was coming home from the gun range a couple of weeks ago and saw a sign to a dog show at a park near there.  I had to stop in to see what was going on.  It was a APBT club fun show.  What I saw going on is another story but I saw APBT's of so many sizes and types it sure seems like there is no specific typiness to to APBT.  There was dogs from as small as the staffy bulls to as large as Am. bull dogs.  With this seemly great variety in the look of a APBT how could you expect anyone to be able to pick them out of a lineup.

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    timsdat

    I got it right on the first try but so what.  Pit Bull isn't a breed an APBT is.  There are a number of breeds that are of the pit bull type.  Do you really expect people to be breed experts in identifying these dog.  After all it has been noted that many of these breeds have common backgrounds and look similar.  Instead of worrying about the exact identification of the dog breed you (collectively) should really be worried about all the severe bites that are occurring and the reasons behind them.  People need to be working at reducing the problems that are occurring that lead to these attacks instead of playing guess the breed games or guess what,  the breed or breeds that you love so much will be legislated out of existence. 

     

    Wow.  Hit a nerve, did I?

    I did that to see, and show how OFTEN other breeds are mistaken for APBTs.

    The only "pit bull" is the American Pit Bull Terrier. NOT Staffordshire Bull Terriers (Staffy's), NOT American Staffordshire Terriers (AmStaffs), NOT American Bullys. These are NOT "pit bulls." They may have a resemblence, but they aren't APBT's.

    The ones that you see when you type in "pit bull" in your search engine, and up comes a website that has massively sized dogs that look like hippos, are NOT "pit bulls." Usually these backyard breeders will promise you that when your "pit bull" grows up, he/she will weigh 90+ pounds, along with the promise that the head circumferance will also be enormous. That, folks, is NOT a "pit bull." THAT is an American Bully with some APBT in it's background. I know the standard for APBT for females is 30-50 lbs. The male is btween 35-60 lbs.

    So, when people that are NOT knowledgable about the breed and think "pit bull" they picture the images in THAT game. Which is a LOT of the reason why the APBT is in danger.

    Most people don't know that "pit bull" is a slang term.  They think "pit bull" IS a breed.

    I could go on and on about this, but I won't.

    "Instead of worrying about the exact identification of the dog breed you (collectively) should really be worried about all the severe bites that are occurring and the reasons behind them."

    Shouldn't that be an entirely different post? 

     

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    timsdat
    With this seemly great variety in the look of a APBT how could you expect anyone to be able to pick them out of a lineup.

      assuming these so called breeders kept to the standard.. but if they were so kind as to do that then we would never have had man biting  pit bulls to start with.

    its true with a lot of bull breeds (AKC included) there is a lot of outcrossing to other breeds going on for what ever purpose. a lot of these larger "pit bulls" have American Bulldog in their heritage... and THAT increases the potential to bite anyone or thing... because thats what American Bulldogs are designed to do... guard and protect.. and likewise you get American Bulldogs that are crossed with pitbulls and that creates more DA than is allowed..

    and dont get me started on selective breeding and actually CULLING the dangerous and less stable minded dogs.... they arent breeding with a purpose. its all based on looks. they want a beefier meaner bullier looking dog.... so yes, in the end you have a very large, very unpredictable, hard to stop maniac in the home of a naive tough guy wannabe..

    pit bulls have ALWAYS been a little sporadic in their looks.... look at their history and photographs and paintings you can see that as old as this breed is... there has never been just ONE type. its only recently that people have started attempting to breed to a written standard... it looks like its doing more damage than good however...  

    • Gold Top Dog

    I think that you're preaching to the choir regarding pit bulls and reputations. Most folks that visit forums like this give most pits the benefit of the doubt.  

    • Gold Top Dog

    there are still quite a few doubting Thomas's here... lest we forget Bob.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Jewlieee

    I think that you're preaching to the choir regarding pit bulls and reputations. Most folks that visit forums like this give most pits the benefit of the doubt.  

     

     

    So do I!  Can I request a hymn?  Stick out tongue

    • Gold Top Dog

    DumDog

    there are still quite a few doubting Thomas's here... lest we forget Bob.

     

     

    Who are they? 

    • Gold Top Dog

     Now that would be tellin! and kinda rude.... they show up every now and then, especially when someone reports a dog bite case involving a bully breed.

    • Gold Top Dog

    The only "pit bull" is the American Pit Bull Terrier. NOT Staffordshire Bull Terriers (Staffy's), NOT American Staffordshire Terriers (AmStaffs), NOT American Bullys. These are NOT "pit bulls." They may have a resemblence, but they aren't APBT's.

    Eh...it's nit-picky, but that's not really true. American Bullys are NOT pit bulls, you're right. Amstaffs and Staffy Bulls ARE pit bulls though, along with the APBT. "Pit Bull" is a general term encompassing those three breeds, and it can mean any of them.

     

    The ones that you see when you type in "pit bull" in your search engine, and up comes a website that has massively sized dogs that look like hippos, are NOT "pit bulls." Usually these backyard breeders will promise you that when your "pit bull" grows up, he/she will weigh 90+ pounds, along with the promise that the head circumferance will also be enormous. That, folks, is NOT a "pit bull." THAT is an American Bully with some APBT in it's background. I know the standard for APBT for females is 30-50 lbs. The male is btween 35-60 lbs.

    This is very true, people do have strange concepts of what size a TRUE APBT should be (we're talking APBT here, not Amstaffs, which are larger, and Staffy bulls which are smaller) and most of that can be blamed on American Bully breeders. Until recently, American Bully breeders just straight up called them APBTs. It took a lot of pressure from APBT people to get them to admit what they were- mutts, with APBT backgrounds- and they came up with the name "American bully" for them. Sadly, thugs dragging around their overweight American Bullys on chains are the general image the public has of a "pit bull." Whenever I take Culley out in public, people ask me what's "wrong" with him. Nothing is "wrong" with him- he's the proper size for an APBT, but people are so used to overbred hippo dogs that that's what they expect when they see a pit bull.

     

    This is an American Bully:

    I think it's apparent that that dog is not a purebred anything. It is mixed with English Bulldog, American Bulldog, Mastiff, and who knows what else. APBTs are overall very healthy dogs. American Bullys have all of the health problems of poorly bred english Bulldogs, and then some. They are completely non-athletic, can't work, are generally pretty dim, and a lot of them are human aggressive.

    And THIS is "UAG2 UCD UWPCH CH "PR" Matrix Morpheus Finds the One CGC TC OFA

    Morpheus is the 7th UKC ABPT to earn SuperDog status, and the 16th Superdog of any breed. He is what an APBT is supposed to be. How anyone can confuse the genetic mess above with something as amazing as a true APBT is beyond me.

    Instead of worrying about the exact identification of the dog breed you (collectively) should really be worried about all the severe bites that are occurring and the reasons behind them."

    Seriously? What kind of statement is that? What exactly would you have us do? Responsible pit bull owners make sure their dogs are never in situations where a bite COULD happen. Further, I want to make this very clear, a true, well bred pit bull would never, ever, under any circumstances, bite a human. The original fighting pit bulls were bred to have such strong bite inhibition that their owner could jump into the pit with two fighting dogs, and pry the jaws of one dog off of another with their bare hands without being bitten. This was actually proven to me the other day, and it was pretty amazing. Butter and Culley play very rough, and sometimes it escalates. Usually once they start to get too rough I crate them both until they have a chance to cool down.

    The other day, it escalated before I had a chance to calm them down. Culley pissed off Butter, and Butter chomped down on Culley's throat and would not let go. There was no blood, Butter just chomped and then went limp. Culley was choking and couldn't get away. Say what you want about what a bad idea it is to get in the middle of a dog fight- but Butter does springpole and we work on him letting me put my hands in his mouth and get him off of things no matter how focused he is. So, I treated this exactly as if he were playing springpole- I grabbed the top part of his jaw in one hand, the bottom part of his jaw in the other, and pryed them apart. I then told him "leave it" and he instantly sat, as if he were waiting for a chance to have another go at his springpole. It was all a game to him, and he NEVER redirected the bite onto me. Butter is only HALF pit bull, but it's a good half. I now know that if a fight ever occurs- and they DO occur, with six male dogs, no matter how vigilant you are- play just gets too rough and you're not always going to be quick enough to break it up- I can get in the middle of it and stop it without being injured myself. That is how proper pit bulls behave. 

    A pit bull that bites a human is a cur and should be culled, period, no questions asked. In my opinion, any pit bull that bites a human should be euthanized, and all dogs that even show signs of human aggression should be carefully evaluated and euthanized if necessary. But to say that we, as responsible pit bull owners, should "do something" about bites...well, OUR dogs are not the ones biting people. We can't exactly go out and force every irresponsible pit bull owner to now be responsible owners. IMO, there should be carefull screeing before ownership of ANY dog is allowed, and harsher penalties for the owners of dogs that bite. That, unfortunately, is unlikely to happen...it is far easier just to pass unenforceable legislation against breeds than it is to promote responsible ownership.



     

    • Gold Top Dog

     I failed MISERABLY!!! However all the pups on that page looked wonderful! So who cares! I love bully breeds. Haven't met a bad one yet.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Ratsicles
    We can't exactly go out and force every irresponsible pit bull owner to now be responsible owners. IMO, there should be carefull screeing before ownership of ANY dog is allowed, and harsher penalties for the owners of dogs that bite. That, unfortunately, is unlikely to happen...it is far easier just to pass unenforceable legislation against breeds than it is to promote responsible ownership.

    but how did they pass that legislation in the first place? we CAN stop irresponsible owners but WE have to get to the polls and politicians before the freaked out scaredy cats do.

    I dont think Steve meant JUST pit bull owners, but ALL responsible dog owners as the collective.

     

    The only thing that test has proven is that BSL is right... you CANT tell them apart so ban them all, and anything that looks like a pit bull, just to be safe.... oh that works so well in other things, doesnt it?  Prohibition ring a bell? moonshine stills?

    • Gold Top Dog

    we CAN stop irresponsible owners but WE have to get to the polls and politicians before the freaked out scaredy cats do.

    We can stop BSL that way, true. Voting isn't going to stop irresponsible owners, though. The only way to do that is to either convince irresponsible owners to become responsible owners (not likely on a large scale) or to ban irresponsible owners from owning dogs. The second one is more do-able, but again, politicians tend to always blame the dog before the owners, so that's also unlikely. All we can do is try to educate- educate the owners, and educate the politicians. And I think you'll find that responsible pit bull owners DO try to do that- we write letters, we hold events, we speak at city council meetings when BSL comes up. We vote. When we go out with our dogs, there are no normal, quiet walks- every moment is spent explaining "no my dog doesn't bite, no he isn't mean, no I don't want to breed him with your dog, no I don't fight him and I don't plan to, and this is why those things are bad."

    We make sure our dogs are perfectly behaved in public, we don't take them to dog parks in order to prevent fights and to keep them from becoming statistics, we make sure they don't do any of the things that a normal dog would be excused for doing, all to make sure that they don't promote a negative image of pit bulls EVER, to anyone. We do all of the education we can. We spend a lot of time not enjoying our dogs, but defending them instead. That goes along with being a responsible pit bull owner.

     We speak out, we are responsible, and we try to help other people be responsible as well and let politicians know that not all pit bull owners are thugs and rednecks, and try to get them to understand that there are alternatives to BSL.

    Sometimes, we just want to enjoy our dogs. Unfortunately, we understand that being lucky enough to own such an awesome breed comes at a price. What else are we supposed to do, honestly?

    • Gold Top Dog

    Yeah, people do think JRT are Pit Bulls. It's happened to Emma, on multiple occasions. People like to play "Guess Emma's breed", for some reason. Pit Bull often comes up in these guessing games, as well as ACD, Pointer, or Brittany. Emma weighs in at 18 lbs. I don't know where these people learned their breeds from.... The general public is VERY bad at IDing dogs. A lot of people don't even know what breed their OWN dog is (though they paid money for a purebred dog, they can't name the breed). Everything that bites MUST be a Pit Bull.

    • Gold Top Dog

    i'm with you Brit, my dogs, since they are big butt ugly Johnson types, are accused of being pit bulls.. or American BullyHmm  so, yes its a bone of contention with me when someone gets the breed wrong.

    the only other thing to do with educating the public is to take it to the schools and start working on the next generation. kids are.. what? 80% of the victims in dog bites? why NOT go to the source and teach them how to behave around dogs WHILE we teach them about drugs, alcohol and violence? heck... the AKC could sanction some teachers to tour around their region to visit schools, couldnt they? i think they should do more than just a commercial on Saturday mornings considering the fact that EVERY breed is effected by BSL.

     

    Jennie, i can see how some might see pit bull in a JRT. i think JRTs had a hand in creating the pit bull.. or some types of terrier did. but isnt the dogs history they're considering... they're only looking at the compact body, tight short coat, and spunky attitude.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Hey!  So did I!  It was close though, since I wasn't sure what an American Pit Bull looks like, I know there's different types, but it was my second choice, so ... hey, not too bad!  At least I didn't think so!  lol