I NEED help ASAP! Long (klkerr)

    • Gold Top Dog

    I NEED help ASAP! Long (klkerr)

    We already have a 1 1/2 year old beagle who is such a great dog.  We went to a local pet adoption event yesterday and saw an adorable beagle (about 10 months old).  We had been talking for a while about adopting another dog and he seemed like the perfect dog for us.  He is super sweet, extremely calm for such a young dog and loves everyone.  Already housetrained, crate trained.  We went home and got our dog and had them meet on neutral territory.  They got along great!  We were thrilled!  We had found the perfect dog!  Well, we found out after we got home and tried to leave to get something to eat, that he has SEVERE separation anxiety.  I am devastated Crying 

    I could tell right away that he was a velco dog, which I could handle.  My other beagle is very indepedent and not much of a cuddler.  Anyway, we have been letting Otis (beagle number 1) have free roam of the house for a few months now with no problems.  We were going to crate Jackson (beagle number 2) and leave Otis out.  We decided to shut the bedroom door that the crate is in so Otis could not go in there.  Anyway, as soon as we got out of the house, we could hear him going CRAZY!!  He is ten time louder than any beagle I have ever heard and our neighbors are very close.  I had done everything right, didn't make a big deal of leaving, gave him a stuffed kong, left the TV on, had a blanket over the crate, etc.  He was frantically trying to break out of the crate and I really thought he was going to injure himself.  We waited as long as we could to see if he would calm down at all.  We finally had to go in because I was seriously concerned about him hurting himself.  We thought that maybe he just hated the crate so we tried leaving him out with Otis and it was just as bad.  He as still going crazy and trying to get out of the house.  We also tried today to put him in there for a few short intervals while we were home and in the other room and he was exactly the same.

    I already knew a lot about sep anx and did more research last night.  I am really at a loss right now.  We both work full time and would never have gotten a dog with sep anx and probably would have not gotten one not crate trained, although I would definitely work on the crate training if needed.  We both have to work tomorrow and don't know what to do.  I also feel bad for Otis because it is stressful for him to be there with Jackson.  Normally he just sleeps all day.  We take Otis to daycare three days a week and were going to take both of them two days a week.  What do we do on the other days?  What do we do when we leave on the weekends?  We can't afford daycare everyday and that still does not solve the problem of the weekends.  Do we take them to daycare on separate days so Otis doesn't have to be here when he is going crazy?  I NEVER thought I would say this (and please don't flame) but I honestly have thought about taking him back to the rescue.  But everytime I look at him, I just start crying.  I feel like why make him stay here with us when he is going to be miserable everytime we leave and make Otis miserable.  He is such a sweet boy and I just want him to be happy.  I think he would be so much better off with a SAHM or someone who is retired.  I am open to any suggestions.  Forgot to add that I have a DAP diffuser plugged in right outside the crate.  Thanks

    • Bronze

    What happens if you leave him loose with your other dog?  I had a beagle mix that was great when loose with my other dog but would do anything to get out of a crate.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Sounds like you may need to crate train him, if you want to leave him in a crate.

    Start off putting him in there to eat his dinner, leave the door open. Then a super yummy treat.  When crate training my adult dogs (they would need to be transported in their crates) I did this by ONLY feeding them treats in their crates.  Then by shutting the door, opening it again. Shutting it, leaving it shut for a 10 sec. and building up to walking out of the room and then coming back in.  Whatever happens he needs to know you ARE coming back, but only let him out when he's quiet. If you let him out when he's howling, he'll think that the howling is what the 'key' to that trick is.

    Also, as a side, who knows what his association is with crates, it may have been the "bad place" for him in his other home. Or perhaps he spent 10+ hrs a day in one.  So, you're gonna have to start over if you want to leave him in there. That is if he's even been trained to it. I also think letting Otis IN the room maybe a good idea.  If he does have SA it may help him to see him instead of being shut up completely by himself.

    But, I'd try a 15 min. test run to see if you could leave him in the house, free with Otis.

    If not, crate train, start at the very, very, very beginning.

    Good luck, I hope it works out and I think it will :)
     

    • Gold Top Dog

    Ok -- first off, calm down (I'm not scolding -- but you're upset, he's upset, and it all changes the 'air' and a dog can SMELL that).

    Realize he's had a lot of trauma in his young life, and likely separation anxiety was what got him bounced to begin with.  Shame on that rescue for not knowing this and letting you know.

    HOWEVER -- You absolutely must take this slow, and it's already gotten off on a bad foot. 

    Crate-training has to happen in small increments -- and it has to happen while you build confidence.  he's probably terrified that he's going to be left again,  Beagles are kind of pack animals to the upper degree -- and crating him in a room AWAY from the other one is not not not not not gonna happen. 

    Get TWO crates -- put them side by side (and I tend to like a wire crate so they can literally feel like they are in the same 'den', hear heartbeats, etc.).  Then you crate train both at the SAME time.  You feed in there, give treats in there, all while leaving the door OPEN.  This has to go in super super SMALL tiny increments. 

    I can hear you "We don't have that luxury -- we both have to go to work TOMOROW"

    You have a decision to make -- you will have to make some changes and keep them together (probably in a small, prepared room) and maybe even take BOTH to doggie day care at least Monday, and maybe at least the newbie all week while you crate train AT HOME, and work on this intensely over the next week or so ...

    OR -- take him back to the rescue and let them re-home him. 

    But honestly you can make this work if you work on it hard and make some concessions. 

    It will mean changes for both dogs -- there is nothing cruel about crating the established dog next to the newbie -- they'll keep each other company, and altho it will be a change, it's not a bad thing at all.

    We humans get this thing about thinking they have to 'be free'.  They don't. Dogs are den animals.  Some do fine loose in the house, some don't.  It is just too much worry and too much 'stimulation' for many.  But -- to the end of helping the newbie get established and everbuddy being happy, you can do it. 

    But -- you don't really 'leave' them at first.  You don't even shut the door at first.  Particularly since he's probably got a major crate-anxiety going as well.  You simply make ALL GOOD THINGS happen in that crate.  Food. treats.  Even company.  Putting them in the crates, and then either sitting there with a book or magazine or watching TV -- so you are 'there' while they are in the crate. No big deal. 

    Gradually you shut the door while you ARE there.  Never open the door when there is whining.  Use the established dog's pre-disposition to be 'ok' with stuff while you are there to praise as an example to the newbie.

    Your first 'leaving' should be something like "Guys I gotta get something from the kitchen -- I'll be right back.  shh now."

    You get up, you dash out into the hall and RACE BACK IN before any barking starts.  You gotta set them up to succeed here.  that means you have to orchestrate success sometimes - so you can 'reward' something before trouble begins.  "Wow, what'd I do right?"  You really want to leave them with the idea that they did NOTHING and got praised. 

    Because frankly -- that's exactly what you WANT.  *nothing*!!!!

    I realize that doggie daycare extra days may be way more than you wanted to spend -- ask them .. maybe they'll cut you a deal or let you stretch out payments.  If you are good customers they should work with you -- particularly in the interests of helping establish a new dog. 

    But above all -- please try and be calm -- this little guy has had a TON of changes just this weekend.  He's got baggage -- most dogs do.  He got scared and then YOU got upset and ... that made him MORE scared.  And when humans get scared they give you away!!!!

    Make sense??  Good luck.

    • Gold Top Dog

     Callie, that was really awesome advice. I really have nothing to add, you were spot-on.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Sorry, I don't have any good advice beyond what has already been said, but I wonder, was he in foster care with the rescue?  You said that he was "crate trained and housebroken."  It seems odd they would tell you that and yet not know that he had such separation anxiety.  That's a real bummer they advertised him as already being crate trained.  I can understand your frustration.  I also work full time and my DH is in school, plus works, so when we picked our dogs we had VERY strict criteria.  We actually had to pass on a dog we wanted soooooo badly, but he was not fully crate trained and also had severe SA.  Luckily, a friend of mine adopted him b/c her husband is now retired and has time to stay home and work with the dog.  But yeah...I feel bad you are being placed in the position of possibly having to return him.  I wonder if they really didn't know he had this problem or for some reason didn't say so.... 

    • Gold Top Dog
    Just a thought, but if you were planning on taking both dogs 2 times a week, that's comparable to 4 times a week with one dog, isn't it? So, if Otis is okay at home, can you pinch pennies a bit and take your new dog 5 times a week. I know that won't solve the problem on weekends, but for now you might just have to sacrifice your weekends, to work with him. I know that it can be terribly frustrating but if it is at all possible for you to do it, I think I'd give him some time. You just got him and all is new. You said that you just got home and then left to go and get something to eat....well the poor guy was probably very frightened. He's just a young fellow and all is very new. He may do a complete turn around, once he feels secure. He may truly not have separation anxiety, it may just be because he is young, confused and anxious and insecure. Once he feels secure, he may not be a problem at all. That may be why they said he was crate trained. Maybe they weren't giving out false information at all. If he was comfortable in his foster home, he may have been doing very well with them leaving him in his crate.
    • Gold Top Dog

    My husband just spoke with the rescue and the lady said that he did act like that for the first few days but once he got in a routine, he was fine in the crate.  We are going to start from scratch on crate training and see what we can do.  If we are not able to make any head way, I hate to say it, but I think we are not the family for him.  We are really, really going to try though.  Thanks everyone for you help.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Please keep in mind, you have only had him a short time, he is still adjusting. It may in fact, NOT be seperation anxiety, but a fear of being abandoned again. Seperation anxiety CAN be worked with, but it takes time. I sugest getting the book, I'll Be Home Soon.
    I have a foster right now with BAD seperation anxiety. He does better when left with my own dog. If I am going to be gone for more than 4 hours, he is crated with his bones, toys, and kong. I never say goodbye, and I make all coming and goings low key. No attention when I get home, until he has gone outside to potty. Alter your routine, so he does not know your cues for leaving. Leave your purse and keys where he cannot see you grab them to leave. little things, like putting on your shoes can be signs to your dog that you are leaving. I give Jeagar Rescue Remedy to calm him nerves, and it has helped. DAP and Rescue Remedy do not work for all dogs, you have to find one that works for you. It's VERY frustrating at first, but it CAN be worked with. I have had Jeagar about a month now, and he is NOT cured, but he is BETTER.

    • Gold Top Dog

    He needs to settle in to the house and once he understands that this is his house (you have to remember he is uncertain ) he may be just fine. I have often seen dogs that are frantic not to let you out of their sight when you first bring them in, that settle down just fine with time.

    • Gold Top Dog

     Nothing to add, but a big Good Luck to you.  I hope everything works out.