Physical Punishment for Kids.....

You raised a good point I was trying to make. I respect my mother more, not because she or one of the step-fathers dished out more corporal punishment but be cause the punishment was swift and the day progressed on from there. And not every spanking was like the forty lashes. If it was a minor offense and I could holler soon enough, that was the end of it and I could go on with the day. How do you handle a kid that can handle pain? You have to be an example, for one. And provide the rules and be consistent.

Dumdog,  if a kid is standing in the road or touvhing the oven, of course time is of the essnce, you need to get them to safety NOW.  That doesn't stop you from explaining once they are safe.  If they respect you, then yeah I think a serious talking to will do it and no smack necessary.  How to earn a kids respect.... see my earlier post.  And I think that most intelligent adults can tell the difference between a genuine need for information which shouldn't be ignored and pandering to a bratty kid.  I am not saying kids should never have consequeces... just that the consequence need not be a smack.

My step brothers were smacked with a wooden spoon, we weren't.  We were better behaved though.  Why?  We had a ton more respect for our parents than they did.  That's key, for me:Respect.  And that does not have to involve smacking.  I will be very sad if I am unable to build sufficient respect with William without smacking.

I think that for some people, not spaking works, but for others it is bad not to spank them because every other method will not work and you need something that will shock them into obeying.

I also think that spanking is not a miracle solution.  There are other things involved in parenting aside from punishing for bad things.  Kids need to have a relationship with their parents that goes beyond the parents being jail keepers. But this goes for all methods of punishment.  Kids do need to be able to ask questions, but when a parent says "enough" it should be enough.  They should also learn that their are times when it is ok to ask questions and other times when they need to shut up an obey.  In public, shut up and obey, when they get home the parents can explain why.  I can't tell you how many times parents have said 'do this' and I thought they were nuts, until they explained why at home, but if we were to take the time right then it would have really messed things up.

 What I hate, is to see parents that go "if you do that then mommy won't love you anymore"  Talk about distress.  Parents should never say that they won't love their child.  The very thought makes me shudder.

Chuffy, you are acting like because you weren't spanked and your step brothers were, you have more respect for you parents then they do for theirs.  I am guessing their are some other things that go along with it and spanking/not spanking is not the sole reason they have less respect for their parents.

I was spanked and I have a lot of respect for my parents.  We were also very well behaved children.  My parents are also my friends and our family is very close and will talk about absolutely anything.  This is with three teenagers and one 20 year old, we can get in to some pretty weird topics.  Give me a topic and we have talked about it.  If we haven't I will bring it up tonight at devotions and we will talk about it.  My parents are the best.  Although I may disagree with them at times, I can not think of any person I would want to trade places with as far as parents go.   Ask my younger siblings that are supposed to be in the 'rebellious' teen stage and they will say the same thing.
 
There is much more to respect than the method of punishment.  I sincerely hope that you will be able to keep your child's respect without spanking him.  But please, if nothing else works, consider spanking.  It will not ruin your child if you do it correctly.  Not giving him punishment that works will.


 

Aina

  Kids need to have a relationship with their parents that goes beyond the parents being jail keepers. But this goes for all methods of punishment.  Kids do need to be able to ask questions, but when a parent says "enough" it should be enough.  They should also learn that their are times when it is ok to ask questions and other times when they need to shut up an obey.  In public, shut up and obey, when they get home the parents can explain why.  I can't tell you how many times parents have said 'do this' and I thought they were nuts, until they explained why at home, but if we were to take the time right then it would have really messed things up.

EXACTLY!! All of that paragraph!! you got it!!

for example with just shut up and do it... only from an adult perspective:

we were having dinner at my dads a while back.. my dad was grilling meat outside with my husband while i was inside cooking with my dads girl friend. Suddenly the door burst open and my husband says "I need a plate right now!" My dads girlfriend asked why three different times, just standing there waiting for the explanation.. i got the plate for him.... meanwhile food was going up in smoke... thanks girl friend...
my dad was impressed that my husband didnt panic over four feet of flames bursting from the grill ( i have NO idea what they were doing outside when that happened) but while my dad was panicking and trying to rescue the meat Allen was getting a dish to put the meat on....  My dad is an ex Marine that was in active duty in Viet Nam... he knows how to take orders in a split second without questioning the guy in charge.. he was rather snarky with his girlfriend because she couldnt fulfill a simple request such as "i need a plate now" ..

i dont want my kids to be like that ..ever.. as kids or adults.. Sure i want them to think for themselvs, but i want MORE for them to trust me and their dad or grandmother and grandad.. to TRUST that we are looking out for their best interest and safety.. no means no. It doesnt mean they arent worth the time to explain it.. it just means there ISNT time.

For another example of bad timing.... if they ask us "WHY cant i go outside?? i wanna ride my bike!!"  what if their dog has just been hit by a car and their dad is trying to handle the gruesome situation so the kid isnt shocked by the sight of a mangled puppy? that happened to me once... unless you want to be that blunt with them "You cant go outside right now because Scruffy is dying in our driveway because your Uncle Tom ran him over. No go to your room and play your video games until we get this mess cleaned up" ... well that was productive!

if your kid respects you then they shouldnt demand an explanation for every single emphatic No. they need to accept it and move on. Later, if its REALLY that important then the kid will remember to come back to the parent and ask...  if the parent still refuses to explain then there is probably a good reason for it and they feel that their child isnt ready for it yet. The kid needs to respect that decision and drop it.

mistrust, i STILL believe, comes from inconsistent training and punishment, or no punishment at all. kids arent stupid. they arent innocent either. left to their own devices kids would be little animals that bite, kick, and tear things up and injure each other... spend enough time working in a daycare and you will QUICKLY see which kids have no boundaries and those that do. One 2 yr old kid i worked with i will never forget... cute as a button but Lord he drove me insane... he was always trying to squeeze through the gate to escape... and was always hitting kids with toys.. i could have strangled him when he walked up behind a little 1 yr old girl and slammed a Tonka truck down on her head. she was minding her own business playing with a doll, sitting well away from him... he walked across the room with this truck and BAM! then he ran away.. to play with some leggos... in a day care you cant spank.. and this kid didnt understand when you lectured him (i know.. i tried it!!) his parents(or parent?) didnt do much with him .. or so it appeared. they worked all day so he stayed at the day care until 5:30pm... it got to the point when i was working there that i had to shadow him.. out on the play ground i was three feet away.. in the class room i was three feet away.. eventually he got used to that and would cling to me.. he even started calling me mama.. i really felt bad for the kid ... i still do.. i dont think he needed to be spanked constantly but i bet he was spanked constantly. i also bet his parents didnt spend time with him. once they picked him up from day care they probably fed him dinner, then put him to bed. Then got him up in the morning, got him dressed, and dropped him off at the day care again. God only knows what they did on weekends! he was a little monster kid for the most part.... but that wasnt his fault. Same as with dogs.. if you dont teach them then they will do what makes them happy.. and that will not make YOU happy.

I learned a lot working at that day care.... the woman that ran the place was a piece of work. she kept her three year old daughter there with her and let that kid do what ever she wanted. One of the staff put her daughter in time out for hitting one of the other kids... when the boss walked in and saw her kid sitting in the naughty chair she asked why? explanation was given.. boss said "C'mon Madison.. lets go get some cookies"...  

Aina

Chuffy, you are acting like because you weren't spanked and your step brothers were, you have more respect for you parents then they do for theirs.  I am guessing their are some other things that go along with it and spanking/not spanking is not the sole reason they have less respect for their parents.

Sorry if thats how it sounded.  WHat I was trying to say was:  We were better behaved than my step brothers because we RESPECTED our parents more.  Smacking did not come into the equation.  You are totally right that it is the OTHER ingredients that determine whether you succeed or fail on that score.  Which says to me that if you do it right, dmacking should be irrelevant and unnecessary.

Aina

Kids do need to be able to ask questions, but when a parent says "enough" it should be enough.  They should also learn that their are times when it is ok to ask questions and other times when they need to shut up an obey.

Yes, I think so too.  But I think if you take the time whenever you CAN, kids`learn to trust you always have a good reason and will just shut up and do it when it counts.

Aina

I sincerely hope that you will be able to keep your child's respect without spanking him.  But please, if nothing else works, consider spanking.  It will not ruin your child if you do it correctly.  Not giving him punishment that works will.

I hope I will keep an open mind and a level head.  But I suspect that if ever I do it I will feel I have failed in a sense and I will try my utmost to ensure I don't have to by making sure the other ingredients are there.

DumDog

Suddenly the door burst open and my husband says "I need a plate right now!" My dads girlfriend asked why three different times, just standing there waiting for the explanation.. i got the plate for him.... meanwhile food was going up in smoke... thanks girl friend...

Well I can see both sides there.  Sure, better to get the plate and then find out afterwards what the hassle was.  OTOH it would have taken about two seconds to say: "Meats burning".....

I amphasised - find out afterwards because, as I said above, if you take the time to explain whenever you CAN, then you are more likely to end up with a kid that:

DumDog

trust me and their dad or grandmother and grandad.. to TRUST that we are looking out for their best interest and safety..

See what I mean?  Cause and effect, cause and effect.... if you want to be a singer, performing to audiences of 10,000 people, you don't say to yourself, well, I know I CAN sing that well, but I'll save it and put in the effort when I've got the crowds.  You say, I'll sing to these 6 people here with that kind of effort and THEN I'll get my crowds of 10,000+.  Am I making sense?

Chuffy

if you want to be a singer, performing to audiences of 10,000 people, you don't say to yourself, well, I know I CAN sing that well, but I'll save it and put in the effort when I've got the crowds.  You say, I'll sing to these 6 people here with that kind of effort and THEN I'll get my crowds of 10,000+.

Excellent analogy. One of my favorite interviews is with one of your countrymen. Bruce Dickinson, the singer of Iron Maiden. He has a truly operatic voice in timbre, volume, and range. And he sings that way whether the crowd is 6 or 6,000. In fact, the way he approaches entertaining an audience is to envision shrinking the music hall down to the size of a closet. Which is why he developed a huge voice and his stage gestures are grandiose. It is not because he is hamming it up, it is so that you, yes you, the quiet bloke on the last row in the nose-bleed section feel just as much a part of this as the first guy, center stage, front row.

So, you aim in parenting, to keep your focus each and every time.

 When you help raise two kids that aren't yours, you could get sued if you hit them.

So, you take your late mom's advice, who gave it to you long before she realized that you didn't want kids of your own.  Mom said that the biggest issue in raising children is that they need to understand that if you threaten a consequence and they choose to disobey, you absolutely will follow through with the consequence.  I distinctly remember that no amount of begging, cajoling, or tantrum, would change my mother's mind about taking away a privilege, or making me go to bed early if I had misbehaved.  Therefore, I learned the most important lesson of all - that woman meant what she said.  (It would have been so much easier for her to give in just to shut me up, or save herself some inconvenience or embarrassment.)

My BF's sons learned the same thing.  If they acted up in a restaurant after we told them to stop, we didn't just smile an embarrassed smile and keep eating.  They were removed from the restaurant by their father while I went and paid the bill.  Oops, pizza gone, no video games or TV that night!  Very quickly, they learned that I was a great "stepmom" and did all kinds of fun things, so long as they behaved, but if they didn't - "that woman means what she says".  As a result, no spankings were necessary, and we were not pushovers.  

spiritdogs

 If they acted up in a restaurant after we told them to stop, we didn't just smile an embarrassed smile and keep eating.  They were removed from the restaurant by their father while I went and paid the bill.  Oops, pizza gone, no video games or TV that night!  Very quickly, they learned that I was a great "stepmom" and did all kinds of fun things, so long as they behaved, but if they didn't - "that woman means what she says".  As a result, no spankings were necessary, and we were not pushovers.  

spiritdogs

"that woman means what she says".  As a result, no spankings were necessary, and we were not pushovers.  

Spankings aside, that is one of the things I learned from my mom. Consistency in guidelines. When it came to rules of behavior, there was no back-stepping. The punishment, whatever it may be, was as sure as the sunrise. And would never change. We can do this the easy way or the hard way, but it will be my way.

My grandparents raised me. My grandmother was the one that handled me and my brother though. My grandpa just let us be. We got spankings. As we got older we would laugh and say that didnt hurt. She then tried to take a wooden ruler and slap our hands with it but it broke and she felt bad for thinking she hit us hard enough to break the ruler. So she just would ground us. And when we got grounded we really were grounded.We wouldnt even be allowed to go out to eat if they went.It was just school and back home for us when grounded. We never got into trouble too much though.

I have a 2 year old daughter and time outs work great on her. I have spanked her and she would cry for a few then 10 minutes later she would be up and doing whatever it was she got spanked for again. I decided to quit spanking her and try something new when she started saying "no dont hit me mommy." I felt bad especially when she said it in public. I didnt want people thinking I beat her when I only spank her butt a couple times with my hand.

Well my mother in law told me that with my husband she could spank him and he would straighten up. His brother on the other hand would laugh and run off to get into something again. She told me that she put him in time out and it killed him. Spankings worked for my husband  time outs for his brother.

So I put my daughter in time out and you would have thought her whole world was coming to an end.No more spankings for her  a few time outs here and there though.

If she's doing something she doesnt need to be doing then I tell her to quit.If she doesnt then I warn her with time out.If the warning doesnt work then well her little butt goes to her time out chair and gets to sit there.

She usually sits there saying "i'm sorry mommy or daddy" depends on who puts her in time out. When she gets quite she gets to come out of time out and we tell her why she was put there in the first place. Even though she's 2 she seems to understand cuz she does listen and usually quits when we tell her not to do something the first time.

When we go to stores and she starts to act up I warn her and if that doesnt work I take her to the car and sit there for a few. Back into the store we go and she is good. I am the mom that will not have a kid screaming and crying in a store. I will go to the car and if I have to I will go home. I take my daughter everywhere with me. Anyways timeout works for my daughter not spankings.Spankings worked my husband and spankings worked for me along with groundings when older.

I think it's just whatever works for the kid on punishment.But I dont think beating them to a pulp or screaming at them is the answer. 

Chuffy

My step brothers were smacked with a wooden spoon, we weren't.  We were better behaved though.  Why?  We had a ton more respect for our parents than they did.  That's key, for me:Respect.  And that does not have to involve smacking.  I will be very sad if I am unable to build sufficient respect with William without smacking.

But on the other hand, my 17 year old cousin who was spanked with a wooden spoon regularly enough to have a special "spanking spoon" is a happy, outgoing teenager who loves and respects her parents, etc.  Out of all my teenage cousins, she is the one who doesn't drink, doesn't smoke, and doesn't sleep around.  Rather than have a paying job like most teenagers she spends her time volunteering to clean the trash off of park trails.  The tool is only as good as the hand the is wielding it.  Her parents used the spoon when she was a small child, but also made sure that she was taught well in addition to the use of the punishment.  Spanking certainly is not the be all end all of parenting, but neither is not spanking, IMHO.

spiritdogs

 When you help raise two kids that aren't yours, you could get sued if you hit them.

So, you take your late mom's advice, who gave it to you long before she realized that you didn't want kids of your own.  Mom said that the biggest issue in raising children is that they need to understand that if you threaten a consequence and they choose to disobey, you absolutely will follow through with the consequence.  I distinctly remember that no amount of begging, cajoling, or tantrum, would change my mother's mind about taking away a privilege, or making me go to bed early if I had misbehaved.  Therefore, I learned the most important lesson of all - that woman meant what she said.  (It would have been so much easier for her to give in just to shut me up, or save herself some inconvenience or embarrassment.)

My BF's sons learned the same thing.  If they acted up in a restaurant after we told them to stop, we didn't just smile an embarrassed smile and keep eating.  They were removed from the restaurant by their father while I went and paid the bill.  Oops, pizza gone, no video games or TV that night!  Very quickly, they learned that I was a great "stepmom" and did all kinds of fun things, so long as they behaved, but if they didn't - "that woman means what she says".  As a result, no spankings were necessary, and we were not pushovers.  

My dad always said: "Whatever ELSE you do as a parent.... ALWAYS let your yes mean yes and your no mean no".  I think great parents (or step parents) have that one thing in common.  That they absolutely mean what they say, every time and therefore you can trust them and you know where you stand with them.  And that goes for good stuff as well.... not just promise and then leave you hanging.... For instance, if you say you are going to watch them play football or get them a drink when you get off the phone, that kind of thing.  I know it seems like small things, but when you are little, small things seem awfully big...

And on that note - as one previous poster said, she thought she only slapped the childs bottom once or twice with her hand - but in the child's eyes she was hitting her.  Good grief, if ever my child said to me "no no don't hit me" I think my heart would be near breaking!  I especially don't like the idea that, if someone doesn't behave as you like, wallop em.  I am reasonably sure that is not included in the book How to Make Friends and Influence People....

I know that I am the reason that this thread got started.  I didn't mean to offend anyone by what I said.  I HATE to spank Madison but I don't know what else I can do to make her see that she is not the boss.  She has gotten to the point of hitting me.  I have tried time out.  It just makes her mad and she won't stay unless I HOLD her there.  If I send her to her room, she stands in there kicking the door or throwing things at the walls and screaming like someone is killing her.  I was spanked as a child.  Whether it was by hand, paddle, belt, it didn't matter.  I got tons of spankings that my older sister deserved because she would lie on me and my parents believed her.  She could lie her way out of a murder charge.  I was spanked and she wasn't.  I grew up with the ut-most respect for my parents.  She grew up and got addicted  to drugs, alcohol, and prostitution.  She will think nothing of stealing from anyone in my family.  She has been in jail twice.  I have never  even had a speeding ticket.  Spanking is not always the answer but it is sometimes needed.

It's just whatever works for you and your child. Spanking,timeouts,groundings.

I have a friend that I hang out with a lot that has a 3 year old daughter.I have seen her spank her,smack her hands,put her in time out, take her toys away,turn the car around from going to town to go home because she would act up.That kid will still do whatever she pleases. I have seen her dad throw her toys away because she wouldnt pick them up when he asked her to and she just looked at him and said "i dont care." They have done ever sort of punishment I could possibly think of besides beat her and I can honestly say that they could probally beat her and she would still do whatever she wanted.

They have a 7 year old son that doesnt act like the daughter. He misbehaves like all kids but timeout is all it takes for him to straighten up.I wouldnt know what to do with a kid like my friends daughter. What can you do with a hard headed kid like that?