Dogs at my school

Thanks for posting that, I am one of the people who are sort of against research. But, if all the dogs were treated like that I would not mind at all. That sounds a lot better then being in a shelter or even someone's backyard for that matter.
 Im curious what kind of research is done on them? I never knew they were even adopted out, thats great! Do the dogs seem happy there? Also is theer a new law that pound dogs can't be used for research???I thought they were.
 
One thing I was a little surprised at is that they only get outside once a twice a month...are there just not enough volunteers to take them outside and walk them more then that?

Hi there, my school also has dogs and cats in our lab.  The cats are used in PALS courses (med students learn how to intubate a baby by intubating a cat that is already under anaesthesia when it's being speutered).  I have adopted two PALS cats and they are wonderful.  The are kept in the most sanitary conditions imaginable and spend ample time every day being socialized with humans and other cats.  All of the PALS cats are overflow from the county shelter and they've never had one get injured or die b/c of PALS and never not been able to find them homes.

They also have dogs once a year for the K-911 clinic.  I'm not sure where they get these dogs from, probably the local shelter as well.  The K-911 clinic is for people with SAR dogs getting trained in dog first aid.  After the clinic, all the demo dogs are adopted out.  The dogs are also kept in sanitary, state of the art kennels and spend time being trained and socialized.  I see them a lot on their daily walks around campus.

I don't think schools/labs keeping animals is automatically bad.  However it does sound rather odd that your dogs are only going out twice a month.  Our HS kennel dogs go out four times a day and I'm pretty sure the school lab dogs go outside once or twice a day.

I think what your school is doing is a start but there is much room for improvement with the amount of time outside etc. But a start is a start.

ORIGINAL: Stacita

I think what your school is doing is a start but there is much room for improvement with the amount of time outside etc. But a start is a start.

 
 
I completely and totally agree with you!

Im 'curious what kind of research is done on them?

We get dogs that have been bred for hypothyroidism and test various new drugs to help with the symptoms/disorders. Also a few dogs for allergy tests and drug development (yes, we do purposefully introduce an irritant to their skin, but it is never something that would be very dangerous or intensely painful, and is always monitored closely). Many of the dogs are just palpation dogs and are used to teach the students things like palpating a bladder, or checking ears, or eyes, where to do nerve blocks, etc.

 never knew they were even adopted out, thats great! Do the dogs seem happy there? 

Whenever anyone comes in, they go into super-crazy-lovey mode. Jumping all over and barking and loving and licking all over you when you pet them. There are of course a few who are frightened of new people and will go to the back of the cage, but after you work with them a while they become very friendly.  All and all though, I was surprised at how "non-neurotic" most of them are (I worked at the facility for winter break).

Also is theer a new law that pound dogs can't be used for research???I thought they were.

Nope. In Virginia, pound euthanizations are still used as dissection dogs, but some stupid fI(*&*&% left-wing animal right acitivst people sneaked a clause into a welfare law that was passed that made it illegal for schools to use pound dogs (who would be euthanized anyway) as research dogs. So now, in order to teach the students anything with a live dog, or do any research at all, we must BUY dogs from research breeders. No one in the school likes it, not even the researchers!  I mean, why not get a pound dog and keep it alive and give it chance of being adopted out after a research term? Sigh.

One thing I was a little surprised at is that they only get outside once a twice a month...are there just not enough volunteers to take them outside and walk them more then that?

Well, we can only walk them during work-hours, and since we are all mostly in class or lab from 8 am to 5 pm, the only time is on our 30 minute to 1 hour lunch break (if we even get one, which many upperclassmen really don't). Sometimes we have good semesters and a dog gets out once a week though. Depends. 60 dogs scattered about the school is a lot, and the kennel staff have too much else to do in terms of cleaning and feeding (trust me, I've worked their shift and just doing the basics rarely takes less than 8-9 hrs).

So if you do the math, we have about 4 students per dog, lets say 3 sign up for the program, and lets say two of those actually get a lunch break of any length...see what I mean? Every dog must be walked once before you can start over at the end of the line.

So usually, using the 2 people per dog model, and therefore assuming 2 dogs were walked per day for half an hour, it would still take a month to get through everyone.

I'm not saying "dog research ! yay!" I just wanted to present a side of the story where they aren't treated as bad as some people may think. I personally don't like the idea of using dogs, but there are some things you just NEED to teach a student with a live dog. Even simple things like proper restraint for exams.

I wonder why they don't make indoor-outdoor pens, that would be good idea since they won't get outside and walked much. I can't imagine one of my dogs only getting to go outside once a month.
 
Also I had another question. How old are the dogs usually when your lab gets them? Are there particular breeds?

Moderator speaking,
 
Thank you for posting this...very informative.
 
For those responding...please be civil...remember we need not agree...but do need to do so respectfully. Yes I am aware no one has been been other than nice. But as evidenced on another thread...it does not always stay this way. So I am taking a proactive approach []

Whenever anyone comes in, they go into super-crazy-lovey mode. Jumping all over and barking and loving and licking all over you when you pet them

I'm to tired to go into this right now but why don't you all read " The dog who spoke to gods" by Diane Jessup.
There is not one thing that they use animals for that can't be done w/something that is not living.
We have robots that can serve coffee, for Christmas sake.

Raja...if you are monitoring allergic reaction...you need to minimize exposure to potential irritants, aside from those you are focusing on. Pollen, dust, mites, parasites, all these things are abundant outdoors. Perhaps this is part of the reason.

Deb....respectfully, I most certainly do not  agree.

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles

Raja...if you are monitoring allergic reaction...you need to minimize exposure to potential irritants, aside from those you are focusing on. Pollen, dust, mites, parasites, all these things are abundant outdoors. Perhaps this is part of the reason.

 
Oh that might be one of the reasons. That would make sense.
 

I'm to tired to go into this right now but why don't you all read " The dog who spoke to gods" by Diane Jessup.
There is not one thing that they use animals for that can't be done w/something that is not living.
We have robots that can serve coffee, for Christmas sake.

 
Actually I saw that book the other day when I bought "The Dogs Who Found Me"
is it about animal testing??It sounds interesting....sorry OT.
 

Here you go Raja...blurb from amazon.com. It looks like a fiction novel by a woman heavily involved with bully breeds...her other book listed is about Pit Bulls.
If you like this sort of thing "The Plague Dogs" by Richard Adams is in a similar vein. He also wrote "Watership Down".
 
The dogs talks...interesting:
 
"First novelist Jessup pens an affecting but uneven paean to the pit bull in this tale of a girl and her dog. Elizabeth Fletcher, a soon-to-be medical student from a long line of heart surgeon researchers, has never had a pet, nor ever thought of dogs as anything but tools for human use, but she takes a job on campus as an animal handler and so meets a pit bull whom she later names Damien. The two bond intensely, and the dog's suffering as a research animal begins to pain her. Discovering he is actually capable of limited speech, Elizabeth determines to save him from torture, but he winds up in the clutches of Dr. Joseph Seville, who wants to capitalize on Damien's fantastic ability. At first made part of the project to keep her in line, Elizabeth is soon "locked out," so she contacts an animal rights group that botches stealing the dog and almost kills him, though he gets away and Elizabeth finds him. Cornered by Seville, the two seek escape and almost make it, but will Elizabeth pay the highest price to help her friend? Obviously fond of pit bulls, Jessup makes many good points and manages to bring Damien to compelling life. Her human characters are less interesting, though she has the dynamics of interest groups and bureaucratic universities down pat. And surely, the interpretation in human terms of another species's behavior is one of the mistakes she's trying to point out? (June) Forecast: Jessup, a pit bull expert, has a high profile in dog-handling circles, and that is where this single-minded book will do best."

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles

Here you go Raja...blurb from amazon.com. It looks like a fiction novel by a woman heavily involved with bully breeds...her other book listed is about Pit Bulls.
If you like this sort of thing "The Plague Dogs" by Richard Adams is in a similar vein. He also wrote "Watership Down".
 
The dogs talks...interesting:

"First novelist Jessup pens an affecting but uneven paean to the pit bull in this tale of a girl and her dog. Elizabeth Fletcher, a soon-to-be medical student from a long line of heart surgeon researchers, has never had a pet, nor ever thought of dogs as anything but tools for human use, but she takes a job on campus as an animal handler and so meets a pit bull whom she later names Damien. The two bond intensely, and the dog's suffering as a research animal begins to pain her. Discovering he is actually capable of limited speech, Elizabeth determines to save him from torture, but he winds up in the clutches of Dr. Joseph Seville, who wants to capitalize on Damien's fantastic ability. At first made part of the project to keep her in line, Elizabeth is soon "locked out," so she contacts an animal rights group that botches stealing the dog and almost kills him, though he gets away and Elizabeth finds him. Cornered by Seville, the two seek escape and almost make it, but will Elizabeth pay the highest price to help her friend? Obviously fond of pit bulls, Jessup makes many good points and manages to bring Damien to compelling life. Her human characters are less interesting, though she has the dynamics of interest groups and bureaucratic universities down pat. And surely, the interpretation in human terms of another species's behavior is one of the mistakes she's trying to point out? (June) Forecast: Jessup, a pit bull expert, has a high profile in dog-handling circles, and that is where this single-minded book will do best."

 
Ohhh I see I thougth it was was non-fiction. Sounds very sad to me.I usually go for non-fiction but I could check it out

I will not take Deb's bait in order to keep the thread civil. However, I also respectfully disagree. You would not want your dog to be the very first live dog I have ever done anethesia or surgery on, as a newly graduated vet having only done work on lifelike models beforehand.

Yes, a large reason that there are no indoor-outdoor runs is because of the laboratory need for a sterile environment.  Lots of things can influence results, everything from temperature to air components. We usually get the dogs as puppies. That way it is usually easier to socialize them so they are good with people. That's why so many get adopted out - they are already all very people and dog-friendly.

Also the upside to getting them as puppies is that (and this may sound sad, but hear me out) they have only been raised in the lab and have not been used to getting outside. So, having rarely been outside, they don't "miss" it - remember, it sounds terrible but that is the main reason these dogs stay quite sane and do not go bonkers from being inside all day. However, I bet their world gets a bazillion times bigger when they are adopted   - I know, I was amazed and didn't believe the percentage either, but I've looked at all the records and all the pictures up on the walls in the kennel keeper's offices and believe it.

Plague Dogs is also one of my favorite books, as is Watership Down. PD is a good reminder of how, in some cases, cold and unfeeling and useless certain forms of "research" can be. But it all depends on where you are and what time pd.