the mind of a BYB

 I think it is important to recognize there are quite a variety of people that fall under the BYB or hobby breeder banner. When I hear the word BYB, I tend to invision a sizable commercial endeavor with ill-kept dogs in filthy kennels, pumping out sick and unstable puppies that are being sold for huge profits. What is in their minds? - certainly not the love of dogs. It is simply a money making venture that runs on the model that less investment = more profit. But there does seem to be another community of breeders that I think warrants discussion. These are the Mom and Pop breeders who I believe are well intentioned and believe they are doing a 'good' job. Many of these breeders are true dog lovers who are just pursuing their passion by turning it into a small business venture. Quite often these breeders are retired and looking for a hobby or a young family looking for a way to supplement their income out of their homes. I can certainly see the allure for many people. There is definitely some money to be made doing something that you love. Do I think there is a personality 'flaw' ie need to please? Are they filling some 'void' in their lives? Of course those people are out there but I don't think that applies to the majority. Personally I think they are like a lot of us who care about dogs and want to be involved beyond owning our pet. Instead of becoming trainers, walkers, shelter workers, fosters etc. they have opted for raising puppies for sale. Unfortunately they have failed to recognize or are ignorant of the Big Picture when it comes to the state of the dog population in America.
 

Many responsible, successful, long time breeders in the dog fancy are referred to and referr to themselves as "hobby" breeders.  I think the distinction is tax based.  Hobby breeders dont expect to make money on a litter with all that goes into the breeding choices, whelping and rearing of puppies.  Since that use of the word is already in many dog circles you are likely to find some will take offense as the "new" definition of the term.

 The best description I have ever heard and have never heard it associated with one individual.  Backyard breeders love their dog.  Puppy millers love their money.  Breeders love their breed.

 It may be that our animal husbandry culture (folks often bred animals for sustainance) has evolved in such a manner that the ability to recoup initial out lay (for purebred or "designer" dogs) and the free market mentality have combined with those residual husbandry beliefs.  The majority of folks who do backyard breeding have no clue that what they are doing is wrong : with regard to health, shelter statistics, etc.  They feel it is their right to breed their dogs and have inadequate knowledge to determine if that is a good thing or a bad thing.  The variability of what is produced in backyard breeding is amazing.  My first dobe was BYB and she lived to be 16 years 9 months old with no health problems during her life.  My designer dog (childhood) was produced by my sisters breeding one's wire hair to the others ***-a-poo, she lived to be 17 years.  The worst case of hip displasia I have ever seen was a random bred shelter mutt.

Folks do what they want.  They dont often think about the consequences.  In terms of my current program they lack "executive function" skills. (sorry had to throw that in with all the reading last night

 I have come across a couple different kinds.

One kind that sticks out is the person that buys the male dog from a breeder and decides they're going to make money off his stud fees.  But don't plan to do anything else with him besides sell his services.  So they get the money, but don't have to deal with the pregnant *** and all that goes with it.  

another kind is the sometimes hunter that thinks he's "breeding sport dogs" but doesn't really take the time to make sure all things are good.  ie hunting successfully for 2 years or so with the dog, showing, health testing for that breed, etc.  Then let's his "friend" borrow the dog at 1 year of age and Ooops! she got pregnant while there.  Sheesh.....  (my boss's husband by the way ) 

the BYB's I've met personally happen to own a dog, or perhaps a pair of dogs, with a personality they like, so they figure, hey, let's reproduce this dog, keep one of her pups, and bonus, make money off the other pups. Often they obtained their orginal dogs from BYBs and think this sort of behavior is perfectly normal and acceptable.

MP described what I usually think of as BYB (hobby breeders I categorize as people like Gina who are reputable breeders who do so on a small scale and do not make money off of it), as opposed to a puppy mill or commercial breeding operation.

I think with the BYB a lot of it is at the root power. Not like in a "I'm going to take over the world!" kind of way, but in a "I can do this, I can create something from nothing, I can play God on a very, very small scale" way.  I can see the lure of that, definitely. If I didn't have such strenuous moral objections, I can totally see myself doing that. It's like miniature genetics experiments. Look at all the online worlds and games where you can create life and watch it grow and change and how popular those are.  Being a BYB is like playing the Sims but for real.

denise m

 I think it is important to recognize there are quite a variety of people that fall under the BYB or hobby breeder banner. 

A "hobby" breeder is actually what I consider the best type of breeder.  Generally (or at least in GSD world) a "hobby" breeder means the breeder very actively works and shows their dogs, does all the health certs (OFA, CERF, whatever else applies to the breed), does not keep kennels and kennels of dogs, keeps their dogs as companions often in the home (unless their job is guarding livestock or some other reason for them to be outdoors), breeds maybe once a year (if that), and carefully matches each breeding based on very specific goals.
 

mrv

Many responsible, successful, long time breeders in the dog fancy are referred to and referr to themselves as "hobby" breeders.  I think the distinction is tax based.  Hobby breeders dont expect to make money on a litter with all that goes into the breeding choices, whelping and rearing of puppies.  Since that use of the word is already in many dog circles you are likely to find some will take offense as the "new" definition of the term.

 

yeah i suppose you're right. i wasnt really trying to coin a new term. to me a hobby is something you do just to kill time and entertain yourself... in my mind i dont feel you should make breeding into a hobby.. its serious business with actual work involved. And no kidding! i stayed up till 4am trying cleaning up puppy poop, trying to interest them in the bottle, mixing up more formula, cleaning up more poop and formula, and when i DID get to sleep i was awakened bright and blurry by howling yowling yipping, scuffling and more poop to clean up and more formula to mix AND had to clean up after my own kids, changing diapers feeding them and then taking care of the other dogs. Sorry...i thought hobbies are supposed to be fun. this is too much like work lol  its work that i dont mind doing, otherwise i wouldnt be doing it, but i couldnt imagine taking this lightly. it isnt like a normal hobby like roller blading, or pottery making and stamp collecting. to me, a hobby is something you do but isnt something you HAVE to do. if you get tired of roller blading or stamp collecting then you can put it down, give away the equipment tomorrow and not be bothered with it anymore. but when animals come into the picture.. you cant just decide over the weekend that its more than you thought you could handle, or that its boring so you pass it along to someone else... even though people do that, i am astounded at their lackadaisical attitude about it! that is right up there with having a baby because you're lonely.
now thats just my way of thinking and how i define what a hobby is.. and the literal definition is: an activity or interest pursued for pleasure or relaxation and not as a main occupation.  i'm sure that the hobby breeders you mentioned (the long time breeders and fanciers) are dedicated and responsible.. but i'm not sure, if i were them, i would call it a hobby. but, hey, i take things literally anyway lol maybe if they took a moment to consider the literal meaning of the word hobby then they too would define themselves as something else.

 First I would request that you not use the terms "hobby breeder" and "BYB" interchangeably.  Hobby breeders are usually those that show their dogs or compete in performance events-and will breed maybe a dozen litters in their lifetimes, but only if the sire and dam fit into their programme.  BYB's tend to purchase papered dogs from a particular venue and begin breeding without regard to temperment, conformation, or performance aspects of the breed or breeds that they sell.

Why do people breed in the same manner as the BYB?  Because they don't know better.  Because they don't care.  Because they want to recoup some of the cost or all of the cost of the dog.  Because they see dollar signs.  Because they feel it's cruel to sterilize animals.  There are a myriad of reasons for it.

Why do hobby breeders breed?  To preserve and improve the bloodlines of proven dogs.   To solidify one or more particular traits within their line of their breed. 

Are there some irresponsible hobby breeders?  Absolutely.

Are there some responsible BYBs?  Absolutely.

I won't paint everyone with the same brush, but as many BYB or hobby breeders as there are out there, that's how many reasons you'll find for breeding. 

mrv

 The best description I have ever heard and have never heard it associated with one individual.  Backyard breeders love their dog.  Puppy millers love their money.  Breeders love their breed.

This is so true!  Despite working in rescue for most of my life I have to admit I was REALLY tempted to breed my Bow Wow.  I know - shocking.  But as stated above, I couldn't imagine a better example of what I want in a dog.  He is truly perfect.  I wanted his puppies.  I got him neutered (and Peanut spayed though I was never tempted to breed her for a number of reasons) right away to take away the temptation.   But I have to say for the first time in my life I could understand the temptation.  My little Bow Wow - no babies from you, but you and Peanut have made me love Chihuahuas like I never thought possible!

Kelliope, I understand "the urge"- my mixed-breed female dog is SO perfect, if only I could find another just like her. But I realize these things don't breed true- the offspring are NOT going to duplicate one parent, particularly a mixed-breed parent. Even a clone won't turn out with the exact same personality or even the exact same apparance.

Xerxes

 First I would request that you not use the terms "hobby breeder" and "BYB" interchangeably.  Hobby breeders are usually those that show their dogs or compete in performance events-and will breed maybe a dozen litters in their lifetimes, but only if the sire and dam fit into their programme.  BYB's tend to purchase papered dogs from a particular venue and begin breeding without regard to temperment, conformation, or performance aspects of the breed or breeds that they sell.

OK this is like discussing the difference between a trekie and trekker. a breeder is a breeder regardless of the intentions behind it. they can call themselves a hobbyist if they want to but when i take the definition in a literal sense it doesnt sound like they have the animals best interest in mind. and what else is a person supposed to think when they KNOW the definition of a word? now if that isnt the case and i am not supposed to take it literally then why use that word to define yourself? You cant sum up all your good intentions, history, and quality in one word.. at least not with THAT word.

Anyway,  this discussion isnt about semantics. i asked if those of you who know any breeders (not just someone you passed on the street or heard about from another person or read about in Craigslist) if they share similar qualities in lifestyle and upbringing.. in some cases you can paint a group with the same brush. thats what they do with obsessive pack rats, morbidly obese people, animal horders, and any other quirky human obsession(i think science has found that its in the brain.. not all circuits are firing in some cases, depression, chemical imbalance etc).

there is an insane amount of dogs being bred and sold... i dont think it has ALWAYS been that way. not to long ago people could hardly afford to feed their families let alone a dog.. now suddenly anyone can afford to own a dog, even if you are on welfare and food stamps. but there are also a lot of huge societal changes.. more people for starters...

i just think it would be interesting to compare notes... not argue the definition of a hobby breeder or back yard breeder. 

DumDog

OK this is like discussing the difference between a trekie and trekker. a breeder is a breeder regardless of the intentions behind it.

besides the supposed "profit" that seems to spring from the loins of a dog (sarcasm) why do you think these people breed the crap out of their dogs? and what do you think is swimming through their heads when they do breed their dogs? and do you think their past upbringing has anything to do with it?

You seem to be contradicting yourself somewhat...I just want to understand what you are actually asking, and what group of people you are actually asking about?

I dont think you can find generalities that apply across the groups.  The primary distinction I have personally observed there is a difference between the serious hobby breeder who is in competition of some sort that "proves" the worth of a dog under multiple situations and those who throw to dogs together.  There are folks from all levels of education, employment, interests, backgrounds etc who fit into either catagory.

 There is an obvious difference in volume produced.

mrv

I dont think you can find generalities that apply across the groups.  The primary distinction I have personally observed there is a difference between the serious hobby breeder who is in competition of some sort that "proves" the worth of a dog under multiple situations and those who throw to dogs together.  There are folks from all levels of education, employment, interests, backgrounds etc who fit into either catagory.

 There is an obvious difference in volume produced.

Right on.  Also, one thing that says a lot to me is when a breeder will openly point out which dogs they have that they decided NOT to breed and why.  With a breed as popular as German Shepherds, I want assurance that the reputable hobby breeders know *exactly* what they are looking for and even if they've spent 3 years and thousands of dollars showing, working, training, and titling a dog, they will not hesitate to keep the dog from breeding if there's just one little thing that doesn't fit what they are looking for.  IMO, it's still not enough just to show and work the dogs, get their health certs, make sure they fit the standard....I want to know why they are choosing each specific dog and why they are not choosing other dogs someone else may have chosen.