two week old pups

thanks again everyone!

i wish i had checked back sooner. the stores are all closed so i cant try the canned puppy food. when my husband got home he suggested giving them just a smidge of cows milk (half and half actually) i was reluctant to do that so i only filled the syringe up halfway. One of them actually slurped it down with no problem. the other isnt falling for it... i dont want to do that again unless its ok.. what if i mixed the half and half with the formula?

also which is a better formula, Hartz or Esbilac? we bought the esbilac for the squirrel and its been kept in the freezer so its still good... but does it matter? i'm tempted to try esbilac just to see if they like it better...  

also i want to post some pictures - and ask another question .. a puppy doesnt have his ears open up until 3 weeks right? i'm no breeder obviously... but i'm curious. these guys are supposed to be two weeks old but they act like they can hear..

sorry for the blur.. this guy was the one that wasnt fooled. he just howled.. and growled..

and i can see how much the owner cares... she hasnt called or contacted me all day..  

Esbilac IS puppy fomula. I would use that, 1 scoop powder to 2 scoops water ( I think, it's been a while since I've had pups)

Make sure you are stimulating their bowls... they might not eat if they are 'full'

I'm not sure about the ears... I would think it's different for every pup, but shouldn't they be able to hear from birth? I know their eyes aren't open right away... I'm no breeder obviously... maybe someone else knows this one

I think it is three weeks when they open their ears

I have never used the Hartz, usually we use Esbilac, and have had good luck with it! 

They are so cute!

i just know some people from the past that didnt like anything hartz made, so i was curious if that was just their prejudice or if there was some foundation for it. i have both. the two pups came with two canisters of hartz puppy milk replacement, and i have my own.

and so far they have been relieving themselves. i was afraid i would have to stimulate them to go.. done that for a baby squirrel but never a puppy. but so far they seem to be taking care of that just fine :D

and yeah they are cute lol they remind me of little black bear cubs with those wide webbed feet and claws! i also didnt know puppies were such fighters at such a young age.... they are covered in crud from their pen as well as formula - not to mention fleas... and i think they are too young for a real bath so i just wiped them down with a warm damp wash cloth.. they didnt like that at all! they actually managed to wrap their paws around the cloth and bite it! i guess thats a good sign. they are strong and have a healthy will to survive!

The recipe Jaime gave me is 1 can condensed milk, 1 tbsp karo syrup and one raw egg, beaten.  Use the syringe.....keep pups NOT on their back.

Are they pooping AND peeing on their own?

yep they are eliminating on their own. so far everything seems Kosher in that area. and i actually managed to get them to come around to eating without them fussing about it!! though it was only half hearted suckling and only lasted a few seconds its better than before! and yes i ended up putting away the bottles they came here with.. i still have my newborn baby bottles and nipples... easy squeasy... i dont know it was that or just me being persistent. i've been feeding them seems like every half hour, just dribbles and drops at a time. this last feeding they ate better. i also changed the formula.. so out of everything i did.. SOMETHING worked!

they're going to be here until Friday if all goes well. the only thing that concerns me is their owner is wanting to put them on puppy food at four weeks. but i dont know if she is still going to give them the formula or not. i know pups nurse for quite a while, as long as their mom allows it but the usual recommended time for weaning is 8 to 9 weeks ... i hope she isnt planning on weening them from milk at four weeks!

and guys.... i must be losing my ever lovin mind... i'm sitting here trying to think of a way to talk my husband and their owner into letting them stay here.... haaa! i would love to have four dogs (once Mattie and Bo go back to their rightful owner that is..) 

the puppy breath... its addictive..

 My biggest concern with pups this age who aren't eating well is that they'll become hypoglycemic or dehydrated.  If at anytime they appear too weak to eat, please try rubbing some karo syrup or honey onto their gums.  This will get the sugar into their bloodstream and give them strength. Pinch their skin gently to make sure it springs back quickly.  Also you might want to stay away from cow's milk.  I've heard it's really rough on a pup's digestive system.  The goat's milk is great though.  As far as development goes check this link http://www.k9web.com/dog-faqs/medical/whelping.html#intro It will let you know when to expect ears and eyes to open, when they're ready for solid food, etc. 

My last foster litter was REALLY young...I'm thinking about 3.5 weeks when momma decided that she didn't want to nurse anymore, or would only nurse sporadically.  We pulverized kibble in the blender and added that TO the milk which we'd already heated, to make a really thin milkshake consistency.  Little by little we'd make it thicker until they could finally eat soaked kibble.  But we still soaked in the formula.

Pups don't really need to nurse that long....they get what they need from momma in the first few days......

But, this gal sounds lke she has no clue what she's doing, and no clue what needs to be done for these pups.  She really ought to be horsewhipped or something.  Sorry, but folks like this make my blood boil.

 I've read that ears begin to open around 10 days. Here's some links on the development stages of pups from birth on up

http://www.mastamariner.com/puppy_dev_01.html 

http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/DevelopmentalStages.html 

glenmar

But, this gal sounds lke she has no clue what she's doing, and no clue what needs to be done for these pups.  She really ought to be horsewhipped or something.  Sorry, but folks like this make my blood boil.

you got it in one. she is working full time, she has two kids, three chihuahuas (one litter of chis, one stud, and one preggo ) three shepherds.. one stud, two females, the one that lost the litter and the other may be pregnant... but that dog came with a history of false pregnancies... and after being rehomed several times in her two years i am saddened that she didnt find at least ONE responsible person who had thought to spay her. Nope. She is the rare white shepherd so she is worth dollars!

and yes my blood boils too... my husband is getting the full brunt of my ranting... you guys have no idea how many times i have edited my posts in this situation.. ((so if i repeat stuff its because i cant remember if i already posted it or if i wrote it and then erased it!!))
but i have to be careful with him. if i complain too much he'll get in her face about it and while i should probably LET him do that i know it wont do any good. she is convinced that she is the expert... and its always someone elses fault when she fails.

Anyway! on to the good news! they are eating properly, finally!! i guess it just took some time for them to acclimate. and i was also worried about them dehydrating too. i've annoyed them a lot with pulling their skin to see if it tents or springs back. so far they have been normal.. just stubborn.

I kind of wonder if their mom was just suffering from malnutrition. I am no breeder but i know enough about nutrition to know that you cant properly raise ANY baby if you yourself arent healthy. if i didnt have three large dogs i would have brought Star (the mom) with the puppies. with a proper diet and a thorough bath she could be brought back up to health and she could continue to nurse her little ones.

 I don't have any suggestions because I know nothing about pups that little, I just wanted to give you props as they say.  So few people are up to taking responsibility for their own actions, it is amazing to me when someone takes responsibility for fixing another person's mistakes.

JMack

 I don't have any suggestions because I know nothing about pups that little, I just wanted to give you props as they say.  So few people are up to taking responsibility for their own actions, it is amazing to me when someone takes responsibility for fixing another person's mistakes.

thanks for that lol i honestly feel stupid and gullible for doing this..
my mom wont say it but she has been giving me odd looks since i brought them home... the kind of look you would give a someone who puts chocolate syrup on scrambled eggs.. when i mentioned turning them in to the vet and lying to their owner that they had died she said "WHY dont you do that?!?!"  .. ok i dont like lying. sorry.... its tempting to lie. it would be EASY to lie... but i really am afraid of making that a bad habbit and it doesnt fix anything to lie....

i guess i'm hoping for a miracle divine intervention and for their owner to get a clue lol  

One quick thing- from all my reading, I believe thatpups wean naturally between 4-6 weeks- it's the socialization thatthey need to stay logner for- but they've got immunity from mom by then. So if they're going onto good quality puppy food, that'd be preferable to bottlefeeding, IMO.  

I can't believe I missed this thread! Thank God for you! I'm sitting here with tears in my eyes, knowing how much you've put into these little guys over the past 24 hours or so. I'm just so impressed! Congratulations for getting them to eat and for being such a good "mom" to these little things. They're so precious! What sweet babies! I bet they're 3 weeks old. Here's a page with pics through the weeks.

Sorry, I have no advice, but it sounds like you don't need it anyway! LOL Good on you!  

Another Site about hand-raising pups 

I'm with Carla! THREE CHEERS FOR DUMDOG! I checked your thread out before you got the puppies to eat and to be honest I was afraid to check back. Good work and congratulation on a job well done!