what is wrong with me???

    • Gold Top Dog

    what is wrong with me???

    Dec 31, 2006 my dh and I decide to get a puppy.  I admit I was more for it than he was (not that he was against it at all...I was just more excited).  We have 2 kids (3 & 6) that have wanted a puppy more than anything.  So, we get the puppy and surprise the kids.  The kids love the puppy, my dh loves the puppy and I like the puppy.... I am so tired of the puppy tho'.  I can't imagine that for the next how many years we will not be able to leave our house for more than 4 hours without paying for doggy daycare.  She is a great puppy and learns quickly but is a jumper and loves to play with her mouth.  I can't have the kids and her in the same room for more than an hour without losing my mind from the complete chaos.  I am seriously ready to think about finding her a new home.  What am doing wrong?  My dh says I am making it too hard....I feel that she needs to be outside a lot getting her energy out (tired puppy is a good puppy right) but it is Wisconsin and the temps are close to 0 and will be dropping later this week below zero.  Her favorite game is for me to kick a soccer ball across the frozen, snow covered lawn and she brings it back...we did this for over 1/2 hour today TWICE!  I am still cold and she still wasn't tired!  She is 12 weeks and weighs 15.8 pounds (just had her checked) and is an English Shepherd. She completely respects my dh and anything he says....she won't nip or play bite if he is in the room but as soon as he is gone she is jumping on anything that moves and trying to bite. Any suggestions because I really want this to work, I just can't keep putting her in her kennel and/or the kids in the playroom.  How can we all co-exist in harmony?
     

    • Silver
    Dog obidence class's. She needs alot of excersise. Shepherds need things to do such as jobs ect. 30mins outside isnt much at all. Maybe you could take her to a doggy daycare a few hours a day?
    • Gold Top Dog
    What kind of job can she do?  I would LOVE to be able to afford to let her play at our local daycare but right now that is not an option.  She is also out longer than 30 min....that is just how long I kicked the soccer ball.  Before that we went for a .5 mile walk.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Although it's been awhile since I had a puppy (Jules is 5) I do remember how trying it can be, especially in the cold months.  You might work with her indoors on some mental exercise.  Clicker training makes them work their little minds, and can be done at odd times throughout the day.  You can also give her some treat toys (Kongs stuffed with goodies, etc) which will keep her busy for quite awhile. While these kinds of things obviously won't eliminate the need for physical exercise, it can give you a bit of a break, and tire out the wee one.
     
    Inside you can play games, such as having your older child stand on one side of the room and you on the other, each with a a small baggie of kibble, and take turns calling the puppy to you.  It gives the puppy a bit of indoor exercise, and also gets a nice head start on training a recall[:)]
     
    I think everyone gets overwhelmed when getting a puppy.  Just remember that they do, indeed grow out of most of the puppy behaviors, and early training can hurry some of that along.
     
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    Well, a lot of these issues are because you got a high energy herding breed. Doesn't sound like you quite knew what you were getting into...

    Okay, first off, your husband isn't as overwhelmed because you're probably doing about 90% of the work! lol [;)] Puppies are about as much work as babies and it can be exhausting, overwhelming and frustrating. That part does pass, just like with kids. Also, there's no reason that you'll never be able to leave the house for more than 4 hours without the dog going to daycare for the rest of your life. A healthy adult dog can usually "hold it" for 8 hours easily.

    I do feel for you raising a high energy puppy in the middle of winter! [:-] At least you do have a yard though and springtime will be here eventually. lol

    As far as her behavior- herding puppies are very mouthy- biting and nipping is what they do because of their instincts. It's perfectly expected that she would want to chase anything that moves and also that she would want to herd your kids. [:o] I've never had a dog of that breed, but I've heard a lot from people that have and you have a lot of training to do! Spraying bitter apple on your clothes and hands can help deter the nipping. A firm "no bite" and time outs can also work.

    Hopefully you're crate training so that your house won't get destroyed. It'll also help to housebreak her more quickly and you can put her in there when you need a break.

    Another thing to consider is that herding breeds are very smart and need a "job" to do. Teaching her tricks could be fun for all of you. Another thing that I would definitely do to keep her occupied is to get some treat dispensing toys. I would fill it with kibble or treats once a day and rotate the different toys to keep her interested. Premier makes some good ones like the squirrel dude, twist n treat and a few others:

    http://www.busybuddytoys.com/

    I also love Orbee toys. They're really fun looking, practically indestructible, peppermint scented, and they float! Here's a link that shows their treat toy, ball, and frisbee:

    http://www.planetdog.com/dog-toys.asp?thePage=2

    Anyway, hope I was able to help a little. Try to hang in there!! [:)]
    • Gold Top Dog
    as mentioned, you will need to ramp up training and exercise.  you need also be aware that english shepherds can develop guarding behaviors and behaviors of protection that can be interpreted as aggression by folks (dog barking madly at windows, doors etc).  Are you crating for unsupervised times?  And yes it will be problematic if you leave the kids and the dogs unsupervised, even more so this summer when other kids come to play.  The dog will attempt to herd and in many cases will forget and use their mouth to emphasize a need for control of the situation.  If you are already crazy with the dogs and kids together, there is a good chance any number of problem behaviors are being practiced.
     
    Three to four to five 5 to 10 minute training opporunities per day.  Switching to a NLIF (nothing in life is free) method of interacting with the dog.  Having the kids do one training session with you standing there shadowing etc will help.
     
    Working on retreiving games (especially the two toy or two hose game) will be easier methods to run off energy than just walks alone.
     
    Get in organized classes and stay there for at least 3 sessions, it will make a world of difference if you do your homework and use some of the other suggestions provided.  The more you do, the easier it may become. 
     
    As to a day off for en event.  Start kenneling a day here and a day there (not day care, you can do that of course) but kenneling too.  Kenneling in this manner prepares your dog for that event if necessary.  Much easier than if you have to do it for the first time at 5 or 8 or 10.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Sorry to hear you're frustrated. Having an ES puppy is a LOT of work.  MRV gives the perfect advice.  I would take her in an instant if I didn't already have my limit!  (I live in WI and have an ES).  Can I ask you who her breeder is?  I know some very reputable WI ES breeders who would be more than willing to point you in the right direction. 

    My ES, and many I know, have never really tried to herd my children.  Generally, they're more caretaker to small ones (humans and animals) than herder.  I won't say definitely that won't be a problem, but generally speaking it's one less thing to worry about. 

    If you live close, I'd be more than happy to run that puppy! [;)]

    Many ES do try to take over if you're lacking in authority, so do try to give NLIF structure. 

    Puppies can be trying....
    • Gold Top Dog
    I think the kids and the dog need more structure.  Letting them run amok is going to make you feel like tearing your hair out in a very short space of time. 

    Get baby gates to limit the dogs access around the house.... puppies shouldn't get free run of the house. 

    Get a crate and make sure the kids know not to go anywhere near it.  Give the dog regular rests in there whenever playtime gets out of hand or if you think she might be tired so that she doesn't get snappy with the kids.  If she does and they back off, she learns its a viable way to tell them she needs a break.  If she does and they don't back off her response will escalate till a kid gets hurt.  If she tries to herd and control them, the same thing applies.... if it works she will keep doing it, if the kids keep being "unruly" she'll do it harder.  So the crate gives you a way to remove her from that situation and stop it spiralling out of control.  Eventually she will take herself there whenever she feels she needs a break, but it MUST be a Kid Free Zone - always give her the option of Flight. Make the crate a wonderful place to be by feeding her in there, hiding treats and toys in there, feeding special chews and Kongs in there etc. and NEVER I repeat NEVER use it as a punishment or force her to soil in it.

    Remember that nipping, jumping and being mouthy are all normal puppy behaviours which are fairly straightforward to sort out (although kids make it harder because consistency is such a key factor - a lot of kids find that hard).  Do a forum search on these to get more info.....  Also to find out more about crates.

    This is going to sound critical, but I'll post it for the benefit of other members who have children and get a puppy in future.  It should not (IMO) be a surprise for your kids.  I think making it a surprise for them starts you off on the wrong foot for all sorts of reasons.  It sends the wrong message to the children for a start and makes the pups arrival in your home even more traumatic than it need be because they are so excited.  I think it should be something the whole family knows about beforehand and the seriousness of the undertaking impressed on the children - it's never to early to learn that an animal is not a toy, or a disposable novelty item and that to acquire a dog or cat is a big responsibility and commitment.  It's a good idea to draw up a list of house rules and tape it to the fridge and these should be stuck to from the moment the puppy comes home.  This helps the puppy settle in with the minimum of confusion.
    • Gold Top Dog
    You're getting some great advice here. I just wanted to add that YES, puppies are a ton of work. About 2 weeks after we first got the Monkey Man, I was in tears and frustrated - not having had a puppy in a bizillion years I didn't realize/remember just how tough it could be. The biting, the constant supervision, the howling like he was being disembowelled when we crated him, having to be available to let him out every 4 hours. Good Grief!!! Would I do it again? In a heartbeat. On Thursday he'll be 2 and I can't imagine not having him as part of our family. Quite honestly there is no one else I'd get up in the morning and walk in 10 degree weather for. The bond I have with him I think is so much greater because we got him as a puppy. Hang in there, take him to obedience school, teach your kids how to play appropriately with him, check the forum for advice when you need it, and take a deep breath. It won't be long before you say to your DH "remember how cute he was when he was a puppy?" (he's adorable, btw.)
    • Gold Top Dog
    Never had a puppy, so I have no advise there, but I can certainly say that Busy Dog Ball tires the heck out of Stanley! It's a clear ball that's a treat-dispensing toy. I hope you can work this out -- she's a beauty.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Just being a regular puppy IMO.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Thank you for all the advice.  We are crating her...her crate backs the SMALL kitchen so she can be in her crate or in the kitchen (she sleeps 99% of the time in her crate). She also has had no accidents in the kitchen.  When we first got her she screamed and tore at her crate all night (only sleeping a total of 45 minutes...trust me I kept track).  She would shake as soon as we would open the door until we started leaving the back door open to the kitchen so she had a safe out. Our kitchen is puppy proof and we have had no accidents and the screaming stopped and now she happily goes in her "kennel".  The kids leave her alone when she goes in there.  They know that is off limits.  She is only allowed in our livingroom and kitchen for now.  The kids kennels....ummmm bedrooms [:D] are off limits for her as well as the bathroom.  I have started playing soccer with her and she loves it.  She is definetly strong with her little razor baby teeth and I can't find a toy that isn't destroyed and thrown away.  We got the puppy kong and the squirt in treat and I rolled it across the floor thinking that it would be a great thing for her to work on....she rolled it with the big end up and licked out the goodies and then proceeded to chew pieces off the kong!  She will destroy tennis balls in minutes (not completely but enough to where I am concerned about her eating the fuzz), with soccer I kick a soccer ball across our frozen snow covered lawn and she runs and picks it up in her big mouth so I can do it again. She has punctured 2 balls already.  I think we need metal toys here!  We are constantly teaching her tricks (she was born on Halloween so she only does tricks for treats [:)]).  She knows sit, stay, rope (her favorite toy that has made it a whole month!), ball, and will bring us the rope or ball depending on what we say.  She knows no bite and won't even open her mouth if my husband says it...she just chooses not to listen to me all the time.  Today was better- she stopped jumping when I said "no jump".  We tried saying "off" when she would jump up on the couch or on the kids or us but she would keep doing it.  As soon as we said "no jump" she stops.  Thank you again and I would love to find out what kind of "job" we could give a 12 week old puppy so she isn't full of energy all the time.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Oh, I forgot to add that we are in the Madison area and got Honey from a dairy farm in Sheboygan.  I don't know the name- my sister and her husband found them.  Honey is 7/8 English Shepherd and 1/8 collie and 100% KANGAROO! How many English Shepherd owners are here.  I would love to hear from you!
     
    Sheri
    • Gold Top Dog
    You're in madison you say?  How far from the UW Campus?
    • Gold Top Dog
    We are in Verona, about 15 minutes from campus if that.....probably more like 10 minutes.  Are you on campus?