How much does breed influence behavior?

here is one opinion...
[linkhttp://www.houndsong.com/html/genetics.htm]http://www.houndsong.com/html/genetics.htm[/link]
 
This is the old nature vs nurture arguement. I think you may get a few heated answers to this question.
My opinion of genetics is this....
it has an influence without a doubt...the degree of that influence is again influenced by environment...I always use the Beagle as an example and will do so again...
a lady said you cannot train a Beagle not to sniff, it is genetic...actually you can train a Beagle not to sniff ( not that you should)...what you cannot do is train a Beagle NOT TO WANT to sniff...and that is the influence of genetics. It is a subtle but very important distinction.
 

Intriging insight,,, and nice description.  I wasnt actually looking for heated,,, was hoping more for discussion, we will see []

IMO....lots. I wouldn't generalize to "groups",  tho. I would generalize to breeds...and then advise that there will be a spectrum within that breed ranging from almost no noticeable traits general to the breed...to extremely marked traits general to the breed...based on the lines and how they've been used and handled and the individual preferences of the people breeding them.

I'm pretty much with Gina on this one.  There are a lot of "things" inherent to a breed and a lot of variables.  My shepherds run the whole gamit from reactive (yeah, there is a reason for that, but still) to calm, confident, etc, and everything in between.  So there absolutely will be variables in any breed for a lot of reasons, including the nurture part of the equation.

Another great thread.  
 
I'd have to say that there are stereotypes within particular breeds and some that are within particular groups of breeds.  Sighthounds tend to be independent.  That's a stereotype, but not always true.  Most of the ancient or more primitive sighthounds tend to be independent and aloof.  I've been around Basenji, Saluki, Pharaoh Hound and Ibizan puppies that couldn't care less that I was there-even though I had toys and wanted to play.  I've also been around some that were almost velcroed to me. 
 
A friend of mine has Deerhounds and one of her dogs would wrap himself around me, literally putting his nose into my "treat" pocket.  Another kept her distance and watched me with wonder.
 
I think that certain breeds do retain a certain amount of their stereotypical traits, however those traits are not as apparent in all dogs of that breed. 

I really don't think you can break it down by groups because take the Non Sporting Group for example. That's a diverse group of dogs and quite a few of them have absolutely nothing in common. I mean, you have the Boston Terrier that was developed as a small pit fighting dog to the Dalmatian that was developed to run miles along a carriage to the Poodle which was developed as a water retrieving dog. The list can go on and on.

I don't know about any other breeds. I only know about oodles. They are all the same type of dog (they don't care about sniffing anything a lot, want to cuddle and to play, bark at strangers and on and on) but they all have different personalities. What I am seeing is a bigger difference between blood lines. I have a number of Molly-Panama's puppies whose girls have been bred to Austin. There is a huge difference between the Molly-Panama-Austin group than to any of Ginger's pups. Ginger's bunch have the attention span of a gnat while the Molly group will completely focus. Ginger's line will either ignore me completely or pester me to death. Molly's line is much more adaptable to what I want to do. What I originally thought was Ginger's personality appears to be more genetic than I expected.

There are a lot of differences that I can't quite articulate.

I'm currently trying to find a male with Austin's traits to mate with Molly's grandaughters and am considering retiring Ginger.

I think breed has considerable influence and also that the specific breeding lines will do much to determine how strong those breed instincts are. So, field lines of retrievers will have more energy and stamina than show lines of the same breeds, but they will probably all show some degree of retrieving instincts and high sociability, etc.

All I know is my Saint Bernard has the personality and energy of a boxer. And all the books and info say they are calm low energy dogs.
I know a breeder whose Jack R.T. have the off the wall hyper trait,but one lady has one that has the calm peacefulness that my Saint should have. Hard to follow? lol

Well, we all know the biggest stereotype - APBT's are dog aggressive.  Well, some are not, and the "switch" that goes off in some at 2 or 3 years of age never affects these dogs at all.  But, because genetics does influence behavior, we have to assume the tendency to dog aggression could be there, and not dismiss it as an unimportant piece of information.  So, I do think that breeders have an obligation to inform buyers about breed history and characteristics that could manifest.  There are always those who believe that "it's all in how you raise them", when sometimes that isn't quite the case.  But, to me, an APBT breeder has the same obligation to inform his client as my Australian Shepherd's breeder did to me to inform me of the breed's strong herding and guarding instincts.  And, he did so even though I'm a trainer, and knew the breed quite well thanks.  I was not offended by the repeated reference to the stockdog's "guardiness".  Some of these dogs are quite territorial, mine included.  So, because I do not have enough visitors to go through Overall or Dodman's protocols for eliminating territorial behavior, she is crated when guests are due so that she doesn't get the idea that she can practice nipping heels or herding the guests out of the house. 
Another stereotype: you can never get a good recall on a hound, or hounds are stubborn.  Well, I own a hound with a great recall.  But, that does not mean that I let him off leash in unsafe areas just to test that.  I don't - he's a hound, and his genetics point to independence and a desire to follow his nose.  So, rather than assume that he will never exhibit those characteristics, I'm proud of his great recall, but I don't press my luck.
The most interesting thing is when people don't ask, or breeders and shelters don't tell.  That's when we get the following questions:
I can't understand why my 6 month old Border Collie can't just go lie down.  What's wrong with him?
Why is my Lab eating rocks?
Why is my Airedale digging in the yard?
Why is my Cocker pee'ing when guests come?
I don't understand why my GSD is getting more aggressive and threatening the joggers that run by our fence.
Helloooo - genetics, training, management.  All play a role.

I'm going to agree with everyone else. Breed does have influence, but there is a bell curve at work in how much each individual is going to show their breed traits. And within breed, different lines also have a big influence.
 
I've lucked out in that I have a coonhound who is extremely laid back in the house. Like to the point of comatose. I've read that this is a "breed trait" but I've seen way too many exasperated pleas for help from coonhound owners who's dogs simply do not have an off-switch and are completely crazy hyper all the time to think that all coonhounds, or even most. are this ridiculously chilled out when not working. But one thing you'll never get 99% of coonhounds to not want to do is hunt. That's pretty much gaurenteed as a breed trait. Whether or not they are ever able to turn that drive off is more of a crap shoot.

If breeding didn't influence a dog's temperament, then why bother breeding?

Then lets take the question in a slightly different route,,,
 
most folks agree you can breed out instinct behavior;  but why would you? 
 
One of the things I fear is breeding (planned or otherwise) that changes the temperment of a specific breed.  Some changes appeared to be "good"  consider the sharp dobermans in the early history of the breed in the US.  However, what about the unintended outcomes...Dobes have multiple health problems.  Could selective breeding to round out the sharp edges be linked to other changes that were less desirable?
 
One more reason folks should not breed dogs randomly.

If you're really interested in the relationship between genetics and behavior, get a copy of Genetics and the Social Beavior of the Dog by Fuller and Scott.  I believe dogwise carries it