How do you decide...(Ratsicles)

I am so sorry you are going through this. I can really feel your pain. I think you have to do what feels right for everyone in your family.I had to rehome one of my dogs and it was the hardest decision I ever had to make..but for the safety of my family, it was the right decision. She was a stray 1 year old Pitbull that we found in a school yard, and I tried to give her the best possible home. Spent alot of money on vet visits and spaying and obedience classes..even had a personal trainer come to my house because the dog became aggressive with KIDS! She bit my daughter unprovoked, and a friend of my son's. Just ran up and bit him out of the blue. She also bit my mother in law and she almost killed my sister in laws tiny Chi mix..again unprovoked. Had the dog by the throat and would NOT let go. She was a danger to my 4 kids and my other dog. I loved her dearly, but she was getting more aggressive the longer she stayed with us, and there was nothing medically wrong with her.Maybe my house was too loud for her...maybe she had a bad experience with kids before we found her..maybe she was abused..who knows?? What I did know was that it was NOT working and no one was happy and everyone was afraid of her. Thankfully, a friend of mine who lives out of state and has a HUGE yard and no other pets and no kids took her in. Not every home is the ideal home for every dog. You love Ogre..no doubt about that..but from what you have described, your home is probably not the best home for HIM..not with that extreme prey drive especially! He is a danger to your cats and rats, and I'm sure you love them too and want to keep them safe. My advice would be to rehome Ogre.I truly believe that would be the most loving thing you could do for him. And it IS out of love..that's why it hurts so much.. He just needs something different than what you can provide for him. 

Good luck..and I sure hope it all works out for you guys. Hang in there

Janet

Ratsicles

Callie, I think your comparison of my situation with Ogre to humans needing to get a divorce is PERFECT. In fact, last night I was sitting around moping because I don't want to give him up. DH was trying to cheer me up, and he said "You know, this is like two people who are dating and just plain need to end the relationship. They date for a while, learn that they are completely incompatible, and so they need to go their seperate ways. They don't need to get married and force themselves to be around each other for the rest of their lives- they need to shake hands, and part ways. Neither of them are bad people, and it's no one's fault- some people are just not compatible and there's no real way to know it beforehand. You're not a bad person, and Ogre is not a bad dog. Your personalities and lifestyles are just not compatible with one another."

DH is right. end it on good terms.... you dont want to wait until a huge disaster happens and he ends up killing one of your other dogs or attacking the horse. I didnt see if you mentioned that or not... when i took in my grandmother's rotti mix he was well known for killing cats.. so we just never let him around the cats.... when we went for walks we walked past some horses and he ignored them. i used to be able to stop and pat the horses or feed them some nibbles... but one day Sue was all calm as usual then he suddenly leaped up and bit one of the horses on the nose!! he didnt break skin or injure her... she ran away but turned around and came back a second later looking like "WTF dog!"  since THAT day i had to walk Sue on the other side of the road.... good thing for me the owners werent home to see what MY dog did! and completely out of the blue! Sue was a trickster though. that was how he managed to kill cats. he would sit quiet and calm and show absolutely no interest in them... he would wait for them to come to him... then he would try to leap on them to kill. it was especially hard on me because none of my cats were afraid of dogs!!

anyway.... yes.. i say end it on good terms. i know what it feels like to be in this position.... there's just nothing for it. you did try. and you've kept on trying.... Kaydee can sometimes be jealous like that when other dogs are getting our attention. she usually tries to just shove them away or sits on them... but we keep an eye out for any aggression from her. so far she hasnt lashed out, but i still worry. she has a jealous bone, its just not a deadly one!! 

You had no way of knowing that Ogre would react the way he did out in the open.  He was used a confined space, in your back yard.  It may be that the open space frightens, or overwhelms him.  Your dream was to have a farm, you have that now, and I don't think it's fair or appropriate to get rid of all your animals, and your property to appease one dog. 

Yes, it's a shame that he cannot adjust.  Yes, it's heart breaking having to re-home him.  But, he's already killed some of your pets and you know for certain he does not like the open space.  You've gone through quite a bit of trouble and inconvenience to train him, help him adjust.  And anyone who thinks you didn't do enough, doesn't know the lengths you are willing to go to in order to help an animal.  Madison is a perfect example!  Kudos to you for not dumping him in shelter at the first sign of trouble.  [patting your back]   

PLEASE, take your DH's words to heart, Ogre just doesn't fit your lifestyle.  You've taken the time to try to re-home him, find a home that would suit him well, and that's more than most people (I know) would do.  Maybe you'll be lucky enough to find a home close by, so as you said, you can visit him sometimes.  Anyway, I commend you for the tremendous efforts you have put into Ogre. Good Luck!      {{{HUGS}}}

I guess part of it is that I don't see a dog as simply an "animal" to be trained.  I see them as a sentient being with likes, dislikes, emotions, and sometimes smarter than I am.

We humans sometimes can act in a superior "humans are different" way -- we think making animals get along is simply one more training exercise (and I'm talking absolutely "generally" -- not anyone specifically a all). 

But dang ... I went thru several "roommates" in college -- and yeah, I lived with a few WAY longer than I wish I had!!  Shoot -- even my *best friend* and I don't attempt to co-habit longer than a few months (and that's after doing it several times in our 30 year friendship) -- so it's not just "divorce" and relationships. 

It's that whole thing that to ME is a tad amusing -- we're so convinced as humans that if we just get hold of the right 'training manual' or training flavor of the week and we can turn any animal into the epitomy of perfection (and if we can't we brand ourselves a 'failure';) but by golly -- don't tell me I gotta keep the same "significant other" for more than 10 minutes and don't make two college kids "room" together if they don't want to -- why??? BECAUSE people don't always get along!!

Am I the only one who can see a small giggle there?

Am laughing at ME (we wont' even go into the numbers of bowls of popcorn I've upended over roommate's heads) -- but sometimes it's SO hard for us to 'let go' of an idea like this and realize one of the strengths of a dog like Ogre is his personality.  It's also his downfall -- so the end of the sentence has to come with "he's not a bad dog" ... and just accept that 'here' isn't the right place for him -- AND NO ONE is the 'bad guy'.  no one failed. 

I wouldn't want everyone to apply this 'Principle' of "not all will get along" in every situation right away.  But this is clearly a case where someone has gone TO THE MAT to try to make this situation work -- both with 'training' and changing the environment, etc.  so this isn't the same as "not enough" training.  And the fact that once again Brit has opened herself to potential criticism just to *make sure* she's considering the right thing is what takes this out of that grey area of "has she tried hard enough" completely.

Brit, I WILL tell you that I have learned many, many things from you! 

And frankly, I think this is a super good example of one of those threads that actually can help change people's minds and attitudes about something they had always assumed was "never right" before.  When you see people go take a second look at a thread THIS long and come back and say "on second look ..." -- that's a good "learning tool".

I also have to say cudos to the moderators here who have helped keep a potentially difficult thread truly productive.  Thanks you guys!!

Ratsicles,

I think sometimes people can't always grasp the concept that a dog and a human can't always get along, no matter how much training, exercise, or type of food or what have you.  

I bred and showed bichons and toy poodles for a while.  As my older dogs finished showing and having their pups, I could keep them with me, and they would have had to compete for time and attention with me.  On the other hand, if I found great homes for them where they could be the only dog, or one of just a couple dogs, where they were pampered and went on car rides and walks and got all the toys and treats to themselves.

It broke my heart.  I placed 4 poodles, 4 bichons.  I have my old minpin who started it all. I have my first bichon and one of her daughters, who became very special to me.  I miss the other dogs SO much, sometimes I wonder if I did the right thing.  Had I kept them all, I'd have 11 dogs to care for, groom, feed and make sure they all got the exercise and love they needed.

I am in touch with most of the people who have my dogs and the dogs are thriving, happy.  I visited a couple and I can see they are adored and their new lives suit them perfectly.  This makes me feel better, but I do still miss each dog.

NOw I'm out of showing and I just have my 3 speutered pets.  And we are all a good fit.  You know?

So, ignore the nasty comments, the ones who are certain you just didn't do something right. Lord knows you have tried and I know you give it your all when it comes to your animals.  I think your dh is right and I think you already know what's right in your heart.  It's NOT easy to let go. It feels terrible to see them go. Heck, I still cry every now and again BUT it comes down to it was right for the dog.

(((hugs)))

Tiffani