I don't know what to do

Best of luck.  Your dedication gave me a chill!

Theodosia

Best of luck.  Your dedication gave me a chill!

 i have no good suggestions to offer, but i do send you and molly well wishes. hopefully, you can get her on track.

Definately get that thyroid checked. 

Have you read "Click To Calm"?  The other book I've been hearing really good things about is Control Unleashed.  And I'll get that one next billing cycle. 

Special prayers and good thoughts from me and my Molly to you and your Molly that everything is back on track soon.

Ceasar Millan, I know it is more difficult to get a direct reply from him now, but you must try! At least start watching The Dog Whisperer, National Geographic channel fri. nites go to his web site ceasarmillan.com I have a cattle dog I have had since he was a pup, and I am also going through some tough times w/him. I keep going back to Ceasars way, since I am a vet tech and have alot of resources at my disposal medically speaking, fact is he is healthy. Maybe I need to approach this from another direction, DUH! So what I am saying to you, start over from scratch, if you are willing to put in time even if you dont have allot of $$ there are so many things available to you. Start with Ceasar.     

I was just on the Dog Whisperer website and they have a video clip of an apartment complex of people who have dogs and there is one woman in particular whose dog gets that way when another dog approaches, etc.  You may want to check out the site and find that clip.  There are other clips that may help as well.  Remember you're the one in controll!  You're the "pack leader" as he would say.  I've used some of his tactics and have found them to be useful.  He also sells a collar on his site (I thought kind of expensive, but hey if it works, what the heck!) and I watched his video on it, and am seriously considering it.  My Misty is a 4mo. old border collie and pulls, she's not aggressive at all, but it might be something to look into.  I wish you the best of luck and will be looking to hear from you later to see how things are going.  Again Good Luck!

~ Janet

Aggression and CM techniques are not a good combination imo - I heartily support the techniques from Click to Calm as they are quite effective, don't risk damaging the trust between dog and handler, and are very dog-friendly.

Have you thought about just attending the class you signed up for without Molly if she doesn't do well?  Have you checked to see if there are any Feisty Fido/Rowdy Rover/Grumpy Growlers classes in your area designed for reactive dogs?

 I had started a thread on the Illusion Collar mentioned by a previous poster (the Cesar collar) and although I have not used it someone who had studied and used it said that it was very effective and did work.

 As to whether Cesar's methods are worthwhile or not for matters of aggression I prefer to leave that for another thread. The guy has seen and dealt with countless cases of aggression and other bad behaviours and he is successful. More can be learned (IMHO) by watching how he handles himself, how he displays himself and his level of confidence when he deals with a dog.

I agree that CM techniques are not good for aggression problems. Any training technique that corrects a dog for showing aggression can backfire big time. One possible outcome, the dog may connect the corrrection not with their own behavior but with the presence of the other dog (or stranger, etc.) From the dog's point of view they are corrected every time another dog (or stranger etc.) shows up. The dog then decides they really are evil and I really REALLY hate them. Aggression escalates.

 Another possibility: if you correct a dog any time they growl, lunge, etc then it is possible to extinguish that behavior. However, the underlying problem is still there. The dog still hates (or fears) the other dogs, but the warning behaviors are gone. Aggression is still there but is inhibited by our presence. If our dog stops showing the signs of aggression it is too easy for the human to think that the aggression is gone, and we lower our guard. Sooner or later, something will happen and a strange dog will come too close, or our dog is too far away from us. Then you can have a dog who skips the growling and lunging and goes straight into a full blown attack.

 The best methods for dealing with aggression are ones that actually work on changing the dogs attitudes towards what ever sets them off. Convince them that "Good Things happen for me when strange dogs are around."

ColleenC

Luvntzus

If she has a complete physical checkup and she's fine then I do have a suggestion.

Have you ever seen the show "It's Me or the Dog"? It comes on animal planet and it's a British behaviorist (the show is set in England). I've seen several episodes with dogs behaving the way Molly is- lunging and aggressing at people walking by. I would highly recommend watching the show to see some of her techniques. They are very, very effective. One of the main things she does is that as soon as the dog displays any sort of aggressive behavior or that it's uncomfortable (body tensing) she abrubtly turns around and walks the other way. She walks a little way and then turns back around and tries again. Usually after about 10-15 minutes the dog is much calmer and can actually walk right by people. She doesn't give the dog a chance to get stressed out or have the opportunity to lunge, growl, bark, etc. at people. I can't say that I'm exactly sure how the technique helps to desensitize the dog, but in every case that I've seen, it does. And with a technique like hers, it's not some prong popping, alpha rolling, harsh technique that could potentially do more harm than good. It's a fairly mild technique.

 

I normally don't like TV Trainers, but I really like this one.  I used that same method for some of the dogs in my class, and it works wonders!  I had a Mini Schnauzer who would bark, bark, bark the entire class.  I couldn't get a word in!  He would also act aggressively towards the other dogs.  Every time he would bark, no words, just turn and walk away about 10 ft and come back.  The first time, there was lots of walking away, but it really did help.  By the last class, he didn't bark at all!  I have done the same thing with Colton because he's decided to become a bit leash reactive and it really helped.  He no longer reacts if I'm walking just him.  Now, I just have to work on it when I'm walking him and Rose at the same time. 

you know something, this is how i sorted out my dog aggressive terrier, coupled with gradual desensitisation and positive associations with behaving calmly near the trigger.  i have a theory on why it works - i think your actions say to the dog "no need to go nuts, i have everything under control!"

let me mis-quote (don't have her book here to get the exact wording) Turid Rugass, who, unlike certain TV stars, is actually a highly respected DOG TRAINER with extensive experience in re-habilitating aggressive dogs:

The concept of leadership only causes problems between dog and human.

She advocates developing a two-way relationship between dog and human based on mutual respect. She advocates considering yourself your dog's kind and caring PARENT rather than the dog's leader.

 The worst thing you can do with a reactive dog is put a pain-inducing collar like a choker, prong, or illusion collar on the dog, and then attempt to use heavy-handed "leadership" techniques.

We do have a member here--not sure if she's going to show up on this thread or not so I hope she'll forgive me for speaking for her--who's mildly dog-grumpy dog became completely I-want-to-kill-you dog-aggressive after work with a heavy-handed trainer who used a prong collar to heavily correct her dog every time it showed a reaction or even cast so much as a glance towards another dog. What started out as a solvable, mild problem became a serious serious issue that has taken her the better part of a year working one-on-one with another (positive) trainer to get a handle on and still it is a major issue.

I don't think any dog needs these kinds of techniques, but especially a dog with aggression issues. That's a disaster waiting to happen. 

Mary - I just want to add my support and sympathy.  You've gotten so many great suggestions and I can't add to them.  I really can understand what you are going through, Pofi is less "reliable" around new people than he was when he was younger and has become leash aggressive.  I think it has to do with adding Mia, who is a very underconfident dog, to our family.  I think he reacts to her anxieties.  I've been reading like crazy - I invested in Bones Would Rain from the Sky, The Culture Clash, Clicking to Calm, and a few other behavior specific books that had been recommended.  Trying to really absorb and put what I learn into practice.

Hang in there!

The trainer who is conducting the class Molly and I are taking used to do prong/choke collar training but she won't do that anymore. She says the same thing I'm reading here - basically all that'll do is get the owner a good bite on the butt or hip and she says she has the scars to prove it. That and many many times she has come across past clients who ask her why their dog has to keep going to the vet for neck wounds only to find out they stupidly put their dog outside on runs while wear the prong collars!!! She prefers to train with the dog wearing a halti or gentle leader and then teach us how to wean our dogs off them and stick with a basic buckle collar.

I like her approach and that gives me trust in her.

If Moly doesn't respond I do have a back up that was shared with me by a dog.com member just north of me. I have been in touch with that person and she told me she will do an eval. on Molly is these classes don't work adn she is anxious to hear how Mollly does. She believes obedience is the key to helping Molly as she 100% needs to learn when I say heel or no I mean heel or no. She thinks it's a break down of communication and for an axious dog she needs to understand what we want from her.

She's picking up on our homework assignments really really quickly. We'll see how her classroom time is LOL but there are only 3 others dogs in the class - and none of them are too keen on other dogs. Should be fun