Just curious....Have any of you purchased a dog from a pet store?

Petsmart/Petco core business is selling pet supplies.  If they get bad PR from selling puppies that affects their core business and then their bottom line.
 
I fortunately had 3 good experiences purchasing from a Petshop over 2 decades.  Is this an oddity or is the situation being sensationalized.  Do you know for sure?  I take it as gospel from others that puppymills supply Petshop and puppymills produce their dogs in deplorable conditions. 
 
“The chain DOES have to stop somewhere”.  Ok, as I said before lets make it a solid chain and include the vets, behaviorist, and trainer that service the dogs that are purchased from Petshops.  You are ok with them being sacrificed in the first place.

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles

Absolutely, that's why I do not shop at any pet store, that sells puppies or kittens. I think that's the point several have made already.
 
Point is no breeder that cares...would sell any puppy at all thru a pet store, because the breeder would then, have no control over who buys the dog. IMO that control is nothing I'd give up in a million years...that ability to say "no"...to anyone.
 

 
I am not getting it.  I think it is safe to say that puppymills, Petshops, BYB, responsible breeders, and reputable breeders fullfill the demand for puppies to the public.  If you take away the puppymills, Petshops, BYB, and responsible breeders, then what is left?  Remember it is you as a reputable breeder that said you do not service the general public.

ORIGINAL: DPU

Petsmart/Petco core business is selling pet supplies.  If they get bad PR from selling puppies that affects their core business and then their bottom line.

 
I agreed it affected their PR.   But since there are, obviously, so many people out there willing to buy from pet stores, they would still make more money, in the short term, from selling puppies. 

"The chain DOES have to stop somewhere”.  Ok, as I said before lets make it a solid chain and include the vets, behaviorist, and trainer that service the dogs that are purchased from Petshops.  You are ok with them being sacrificed in the first place.

 
If that "You" was directed at me, that's unfair.  Please quote exactly where I said I was OK with it.  You'll notice, when you look, that I didn't. 
 
Kate

ORIGINAL: DPU

“The chain DOES have to stop somewhere”. Ok, as I said before lets make it a solid chain and include the vets, behaviorist, and trainer that service the dogs that are purchased from Petshops. You are ok with them being sacrificed in the first place.

Again, this makes absolutely no sense and just results in unethical practices that are detrimental to the well-being of animals. Putting responsiblity on every single person who works in a medical or therapeutic capacity with pet store dogs - work with them to *improve* their quality of life - is pointless and avoid the real problem.

ORIGINAL: DPU

I am not getting it. I think it is safe to say that puppymills, Petshops, BYB, responsible breeders, and reputable breeders fullfill the demand for puppies to the public. If you take away the puppymills, Petshops, BYB, and responsible breeders, then what is left? Remember it is you as a reputable breeder that said you do not service the general public.

Of course they fulfill a market. So did slave trade. However, people do not *need* dogs enough to justify the horrors of supporting that industry. And considering the overflowing shelters all across the US, I have a very hard time believing that anyone "must" resort to a pet store. To me, it is not worth suppporting that kind of abuse no matter how much you personally may really really want a puppy. There are far more important factors involved here than an individual's desire for a dog.

Is this an oddity or is the situation being sensationalized
 
Not at all...just like with anything...some people get good experiences and others get bad. The point is not the puppies in stores and what they end up like, at least not for me...it is the business that puts them there, it is the pups' mothers and fathers. If you are not familiar with PetLand, and their main supplier the Hunte Corp then perhaps that's why you have a bit of difficulty  with why this is such a problem for some of us.
 
The Hunte Corp and other less seemingly "slick" operations...are the real issue. The pet store puppy buyer, is not to be held harmless...for the mother dogs kept in small pens their whole lives bearing litter after litter of pups with no breaks, until they are too old and then are auctioned off to the highest bidder for god knows what. They did contribute to her fate...just like the person who buys a cat toy, or collar, at Petland.
 
There are smaller feed store, Mom & Pops....who DO buy puppies from individuals that say "hey I got a litter of XXX, how much??" and they are probably treated better perhaps than those trucked into big chain stores...but the question is...
 
"what sort of person does this with their puppies? Sells them to someone they don't know..so they can be sold to someone else they don't know?".
 
At the very least..shopping at said feed stores and Mom & Pops, supports then, the BYB. Again...I will do neither.
 
People who buy pups in the store...think only of the pup they buy...it's future if they don't, it's cuteness and deservedness to be sprung,...IMO not enough thought is put into the dogs left behind that pup. It's mother...her sisters...the apparently expendable grease on the wheels of the puppy supplying juggernaut.

Inne, haven't you ever been refused a medical appointment from a doctor who says he is not taking on new patients?  There is nothing unethical in that.

Petshops offer more to the public than shelters.  e.g. a history and papers.  Again what's another alternative to Petshops beside shelters and reputable breeders?

If you take away the puppymills, Petshops, BYB, and responsible breeders, then what is left?  Remember it is you as a reputable breeder that said you do not service the general public.

 
And I don't.
 
I'd assume that what'd happen is that the shelters would be a lot emptier....sounds good to me! Besides who is taking away responsible breeders?
 
I also expect the BYB would not go away either.
 
Heck at this point I'd be thrilled with petstores being required to sell only s/n pups! That alone would make people a lot less likely to buy there! They charge out the ying yang anyhow...more than enough to cover a pediatric s/n. Then you'd buy your pup but NOT take it home that day...or at all, until the surgery was done.

OK, so here's a question.  If everyone on earth refused to buy from pet shops, and ideal breeding practises were always followed, where would people get their dogs?  Eventually, there would be no need for shelters and very few accidental breedings.  Is the answer for there to be more GOOD breeders?  If it was easier to get a dog from such a breeder, with all the health and temperament testing that good breeders provide, would that solve the problem?  If people had a better, more viable route to a healthy dog than a pet store, would that be the ideal?  If all shelters were empty, and all pet stores shut down tomorrow, there would not be enough reputable breeders around to supply the demand.  So which link, exactly, in the chain I mentioned above, is really the one that needs to be broken?
 
Answers on a postcard, please.
 
Kate

I thought the difference between a BYB and a responsible breeder was the winning side of a gamble that the dog turned out to be healthy in its life.  The only true responsible breeder is the reputable breeder.  This I got from you or I misinterpretted. 
 
Shelter people are not business people, won't work.

Petshops offer more to the public than shelters.  e.g. a history and papers.  Again what's another alternative to Petshops beside shelters and reputable breeders?

History of what? The week they've been in the store? Papers from where...ConKC? APR?
 
If you wait for all your questions to be answered, with the answers you want to hear, before you do anything at all to fix a problem...
 
Suffice it to say...I am glad that's not the way everyone in the world thinks or many terrible and horrific things would still be the norm in our country.
 
Moderator hat is on:
Being that the convo has gone quite circular...I will simply be monitoring from here out. Everyone please do continue, and keep things civil. Tho passions ride high on this topic, I bet we can all continue to do just as well as we have been! []

ORIGINAL: DPU

Inne, haven't you ever been refused a medical appointment from a doctor who says he is not taking on new patients? There is nothing unethical in that.

In a non-emergency situation, once, and I was given alternatives. But we're talking about denying treatment based not on the capacity of the practice, but based on the origin of the animal. Which is sort of like denying treatment to immigrants because you disagree with immigration policy, which is quite obviously unethical.

Petshops offer more to the public than shelters. e.g. a history and papers. Again what's another alternative to Petshops beside shelters and reputable breeders?

What value do you think the history and papers from pet shops hold? These are puppymills. They're not going to tell you that the mother has been caged for 4 years and bred every single heat and that most of her offspring have serious health or temperament issues. Registration papers? Why in the world would you need those when you're quite clearly buying a pet quality dog who most likely does not meet breed conformation? At my shelter, there are detailed histories of temperament and health. Temperament testing is done, as is obedience. They also offer continued support for people who adopt. What petshops offer to people are cute puppies who are readily available and that's about it. No health testing, no temperament testing, no health guarantees.

Why exactly do you need an alternative to shelters, rescues and reputable breeders? I'm not quite understanding the issue. I agree that these need to be accessible to more people, but I don't think we need a new venue altogether. I personally am at a disadvantage when it comes to rescues because I live in an apartment and don't have a yard, but I'm sure if I explained my situation I would find a rescue willing to work with me. And I can always go to the humane society or city animal services. I guess where we differ is that you think the priority is ease of purchase whereas most of us here prioritize the well-being of dogs even when it involves delayed gratification, more work, and time. Although, honestly, adopting from our Humane Society is very simple. PetFinder is a fantastic resource as well.

ORIGINAL: DPU

Shelter people are not business people, won't work.

How do you mean? There are paid employees at shelters. It is run like a business - shelters should have a really great business plan in order to maximize efficiency. They just happen to be non-profits.

ORIGINAL: inne

ORIGINAL: DPU

Shelter people are not business people, won't work.

How do you mean? There are paid employees at shelters. It is run like a business - shelters should have a really great business plan in order to maximize efficiency. They just happen to be non-profits.

 
I am sorry but I am relunctant to comment.  I want follow the directions of the moderator.

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles

this may have already been adressed, but after reading some of this i am wondering what one would think should happen to the uppies?

Gayle and seemingly, DPU
 
What really do YOU expect? There is no rosy pink and fuzzy yellow outcome for the pet store pup...they come from Hell on Earth and when one is sold 10 more take it's place. My concern is not for that one (which would be sent to a shelter, breed rescue or back from whence it came if not sold)...but for the 10 behind it, (not counting the other 10 that didn't even make  it to be old enough to be sent to the store)...and the 10 shelter and rescue dogs that will die because of it. One needs a wide angle view to consider the mill problem...not focusing solely on those faces behind the glass.
 
"Supplying" dogs for the public is not the job of anyone...should not be...because I'd say fully half of the people buying dogs do not need  a dog, are not equipped for the breed of dog they want, get puppies when an older dog would fit in much easier and better, or are those folks ready to give it up at the first life change or sign of trouble.
 
At this point (and this is a big thing to admit for me) I am willing to admit that buying a dog should not be as easy as it is...thru any outlet. At this point I am willing to say people should be licensed before they are even allowed to LOOK for a dog...at this point I think some knowledge of dogs, training, and behavior should be mandatory. Ain't gonna happen...but one can dream. In the meantime what we can do is not support with our dollars or  words...store that sell pups, or BYB's that also contribute to the POPP.

Way better then I could have put it--good post.