Using a Prong Collar--Questions

I guess I missed your post about this before. I think the prong collar is a extremly unecessary training tool. Its already proven in your case to be ineffective, its gives people the wrong idea, and what you are trying to achieve with it can be done with other methods.
Have you taken obediance class?
Have you tried a gentle leader?
What walking/trainingmethods have you tried prior to the prong collar?
 
I just think if they can tame a lion to jump through a ring of fire without a prong collar we can teach our dogs to walk nicely without one.

Also if your insistent on using the collar I know that Petsmart trainers are super helpful in regards to helping you fit and use each training collar/harness. Even if you arnt taking classes there you can just go in the mroning, ask to see a trainer and they are really great about it. Most stores also have all of the collars/harnesses for you to try out in the store. That is how we found what was right for Rory, they just brought out the whole bag and we tried each one!

The trainer I tak Giz to was the first to fit her with a prong and I have been sucessful ever since. I find it more humain than a choak and if used properly it should not cause the dog any pain. I have to say that the owner has to be trained how to use it first in order to use it correctly. It does take some time to adjust to using it and it will not all happen in one day. You are on the right track, start slowly and work to where your dog feels confortable using it. Do not force your dog to do things you or the dog are not conforatable with. I do not use the prong to correct agressive behavor but only to teach how to walk on a lead with plenty of +reaanforcemt, treats for doing things right. The collar is only an aid in traing most of the reanforcement should be comming from you.

With MY Thor it was more likely that I could have taught him to jump through a ring of fire than to walk  nicely on lead.  I have shoulder issues and he is 93 lbs of pure muscle.  If it comes to a tug of war, he's always gonna win.  And I did work with him for months.
 
You MUST be taught how to use the prong properly and I would not use it at the top of the neck..that position maximizes pain. Yes, a prong is uncomfortable, but the goal is not to inflict pain, but rather to let the collar self correct.

Maybe your mom would be happier, and maybe Thor would be happier, if you tried a Gentle Leader headcollar.  Headcollars are for walking dogs close by you, when you want the dog to pay attention to you, not their surroundings.  There's a video you can get to show you how to acclimate your dog to the GL, and how to use it once he is ok wearing it.  You can see one at [linkhttp://www.premierpet.com.%C2%A0]www.premierpet.com. [/link] I have a 75 year old client who walks a Great Dane in one very successfully.
The GL, in combination with a training program that focuses on teaching your dog to pay attention to you can be very helpful.  For a lesson on "Attention", and "Heeling" check out [linkhttp://www.clickerlessons.com.%C2%A0]www.clickerlessons.com. [/link] The main thing is that you want to *first* train the dog in a non-distracting environment, so he will understand what's expected and will know the words you will be using.  Then, and only then, should you try to "take it on the road".
BTW, it is not often helpful to use a prong on any dog that is timid, or that displays aggression - you can easily make the situation worse.
HTH

Sheprano, I appreciate your opinion, but I asked for help, not criticism.
I'm sure there is some alternative to the prong, but I would like to try it first, because being 17, paying my way through college with cash, and only making 6.75 an hour, I have very very limited funds. So, before I go signing up for traning classes, that I would have to work overtime for and that I would have to skip school for (because our petsmart only offers morning classes, and I cannot afford  one on one sessions) I would like to exhaust all other options.
I don't think that because my dog got excited about the idea of dogs running up and barking at him, the prong has been proven "ineffective." Also, I don't see how the prong gives any more wrong ideas than the GL does. To people that dont know what a gentle leader is it looks like a muzzle. I had never seen a gentle leader until this forum, so I know that the people on my street probably don't know what it is either. & All the surrounding cities have already banned pits, so by no means am I trying to send the wrong message. What DOES send the wrong message is having my dog walk me.
I have not tried the GL, but, if I cannot progress with the prong, that was my next step.
&, what I have tried to do prior to the prong is walking him with a flat collar, and using the "tree" method (stopping when he pulled) to which he just pulled harder, and choked himself. His eyes would get bloodshot and he would just keep pulling. I tried changing direction everytime he pulled, to focus his attention more on my actions than what was going on around him, and he pretty much didn't care, he just turned around and started pulling again.
& The times that I can make it to a petsmart, there aren't any trainers there, and I don't have a car, anyway. Thor gets to the vet by my parents. They are good about providing him with necessities, but they don't put in the effort to train him in any way. I'm trying.
I use my boyfriends car when I need to go somewhere, because right now I am trying to save to get my own because my parents pretty much don't give a crap about trying to help me do anything. But it's taking a long time to save because I get paid very little, and paying for school takes a huge chunk of money out of my bank account every 6 months. Then there are vet bills, food cost (for me and my animals) etc. I've only got 2,300 in the bank right now, and tuition is due in a month.
I'm not trying to throw a pity party for myself, just letting you know my situation.
My animals do come first, but before I spend a lot of money I really can't afford to spend on a training class I probably can't make it to, I want to exhaust my other options.
 
So, if there is some other way you think I can train him with a flat collar, please tell me, and I promise to try it. If not, I am going to try the prong, because, I put it on my own neck, and couldn't hurt myself with it, and I am satisfied that i am not hurting the dog. because, even when he pulled on it today, he didn't choke, he didn't get bloodshot eyes, and he walked nicely on it..which was a change from the flat collar.
I really don't mean to offend, sorry if I did.
 

I hope you dont take offense to my post.
My trainer made a good point though one time about a pit bulls high tolerance for pain or "correction" as we say so thats why it can sometimes provide useless for breeds such as ours.
I know it can become exspensive buying and trying out different kinds of collars so hopefully you have a pet store close to you where you can try out differnet ones as well as be shown how to use the prong properly.
 

To Xebby, Glenmar, and Spiritdogs

Thanks for the comments.
Glenmar, where should he be wearing the collar then, midneck?

& Spiritdogs, I would like to try the GL  but I have read on there that it is very important to get one that fits correctly, and I cannot take Thor with me (see my comment to sheprano) to have one fitted to him.

Also, He isn't aggressive or timid.  He is a bundle of excited happiness, which is what makes it hard to walk him. He gets very excited by new noises, etc. He isn't very well socialized, although he does well around other dogs, if that makes sense. He is just SO excited that he becomes hard to control. In the house, he always responds to his name, and I never have to tell him a command more than once, but outside, with noises, he doesn't respond to commands. He will respond to the correction noise I use, but that's it. I don't really understand clicker training but I will definitely check out the link you posted and see how it works.
I am only using the prong collar because I thought it would minimize his pulling, and while I am training him to walk next to me, if he did pull, it wouldn't do damage to his throat like a flat collar can. I would try a harness but I am afraid that would just give him more pulling power.

Is the GL something he would have to walk with all the time, or could I use that to teach him to walk to on flat collar, because that is my ultimate goal, is to have him walk with me without a training collar.

No offense taken, Sheprano. I come here for advice and thats what I got [] I just probably should have explained my situation more before I posted.
I really am willing to try everything, It's just hard to find the time and money to do so. I was at the petstore today for some Blue Buff. food for my pup, which is why I decided to finally pick up a collar for Thor, I looked at the gentle leaders, but they were all packaged and had sizes on them ( I think it was 1-5 or something) but there weren't any open. I have no idea what-so-ever what size Thor would need, and it will probably be a long while before I could take him out there with me. Also, It is hard to take him places when he pulls me around.[] I look like I have a "time bomb" (as pits are called here) at the end of my leash because I have a hard time controlling his strength. I guess what I need to do first is slowly start inviting people over while I try to get him to respond to commands with strange noises going on? I'm going to check out the clicker training link anne posted for me and see how that works, first.

ORIGINAL: UndefinedMelody

Sheprano, I appreciate your opinion, but I asked for help, not criticism.
I'm sure there is some alternative to the prong, but I would like to try it first, because being 17, paying my way through college with cash, and only making 6.75 an hour, I have very very limited funds. So, before I go signing up for traning classes, that I would have to work overtime for and that I would have to skip school for (because our petsmart only offers morning classes, and I cannot afford  one on one sessions) I would like to exhaust all other options.
I don't think that because my dog got excited about the idea of dogs running up and barking at him, the prong has been proven "ineffective." Also, I don't see how the prong gives any more wrong ideas than the GL does. To people that dont know what a gentle leader is it looks like a muzzle. I had never seen a gentle leader until this forum, so I know that the people on my street probably don't know what it is either. & All the surrounding cities have already banned pits, so by no means am I trying to send the wrong message. What DOES send the wrong message is having my dog walk me.
I have not tried the GL, but, if I cannot progress with the prong, that was my next step.
&, what I have tried to do prior to the prong is walking him with a flat collar, and using the "tree" method (stopping when he pulled) to which he just pulled harder, and choked himself. His eyes would get bloodshot and he would just keep pulling. I tried changing direction everytime he pulled, to focus his attention more on my actions than what was going on around him, and he pretty much didn't care, he just turned around and started pulling again.
& The times that I can make it to a petsmart, there aren't any trainers there, and I don't have a car, anyway. Thor gets to the vet by my parents. They are good about providing him with necessities, but they don't put in the effort to train him in any way. I'm trying.
I use my boyfriends car when I need to go somewhere, because right now I am trying to save to get my own because my parents pretty much don't give a crap about trying to help me do anything. But it's taking a long time to save because I get paid very little, and paying for school takes a huge chunk of money out of my bank account every 6 months. Then there are vet bills, food cost (for me and my animals) etc. I've only got 2,300 in the bank right now, and tuition is due in a month.
I'm not trying to throw a pity party for myself, just letting you know my situation.
My animals do come first, but before I spend a lot of money I really can't afford to spend on a training class I probably can't make it to, I want to exhaust my other options.

So, if there is some other way you think I can train him with a flat collar, please tell me, and I promise to try it. If not, I am going to try the prong, because, I put it on my own neck, and couldn't hurt myself with it, and I am satisfied that i am not hurting the dog. because, even when he pulled on it today, he didn't choke, he didn't get bloodshot eyes, and he walked nicely on it..which was a change from the flat collar.
I really don't mean to offend, sorry if I did.

JMHO, but you asked for opinions and got them.  Owning a dog and providing the proper training, equipment, and medical care can be expensive.  If your parents aren't willing to help, and you don't have the funds for that, it's too bad you didn't plan better before getting a dog.  But, now that you have him, if he has needs, well, it's up to you to try as hard as you can to meet them.  It's called responsibility, and sometimes that requires overtime, a second job, and a few missed parties...
A gentle leader isn't that expensive - about $21.  And, as I said, you can get "Attention" lessons free on the Internet at [linkhttp://www.clickerlessons.com,]www.clickerlessons.com,[/link] to help your dog pay attention to you better.  Also, who cares if it looks like a muzzle.  You can explain that it isn't, and your dog will look a lot less intimidating walking more politely with you, than he does in a prong, or pulling you along.  People are often very frightened of Pits if the owner does not appear to be in control of the dog.  So, I still vote for the GL if it works.  On some dogs, you may want to tie it back to the buckle collar so that the dog can't pull it over their head and get loose.  But, in terms of leverage, that gives you the most.  After all, I can walk my 1000 pound horse on a halter...

One of the first questions I ever asked on this forum was about the prong, here are the responses I got:
[linkhttp://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=63240&mpage=1&key=]http://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=63240&mpage=1&key=[/link]
 
In the end it's up to you to decide what is the best training for your dog.

A little over 11 years ago I signed Babe up for OB classes at the same facility that trained all the dogs for the local police dept's. I knew several of the officers personally due to my job at that time and it was highly recommended. She was 4 months old at the time and very headstrong. We did very well in class, but only after I changed to a prong. You see Babe had enough pull, strength and just plain stubbornness to actually break 2 choke collars. And they didn't just hand me one and say here, they actually showed me how it worked, how to attach and where to have it set on her to make it do the work. I was also instructed on what to do and not do to make it work for us both.
 
Now, I have Kord, 4 months, 35 lbs and he is a very hard dog on the arms and hands. His ull for his size and weight is just lain crazy.  I have not and will not use a choke on him because I feel they do more damage then we can ever know. Instead I am going to try a Halti for the first time because the flat collar is not working, nor are corrections. I can stand there all day and not move and he will stop when I ask but goes right back to it as soon as he see's something he wants to investigate or chase. If the halti does not help, then I will go back to a prong.
 
Good luck!
 
Dawn

My advice is whatever tools or training methods you decide to use with your dog just make sure you do your research (like you are now) and learn as much as you can about it and get help from a professional to start. Successes with any tool or training method solely depends on the handlers knowledge of it.   With what ever you do you have to feel comfortable with your methods of training but most importantly always be fair with your dog.   I would use motivation to teach with food or a toy and only use corrections when you know your dog 100% knows something but chooses to disobey you.   I believe you should use the gentlest methods you can with whatever you have.   Good luck with your guy. Let us know of your progress.

Since my main point has gotten mixed up with emotions I would again like to state:
 
you can visit any petsmart and they will let you try out all the differnet training aids, for free and in store.