Opinions on traveling with dogs

I don't like crates for a lot of reasons, and this is one of those things that everyone has a really strong opinion on ...
 
I just got a PT Cruizer this year (and I love it) ... we took out the bigger of the two 'back seats' and I bought THREE foam dog beds (the oval kind) -- it works terrific.  They lie down each in a bed and simply settle.  No, the bed isn't going to 'strap them in' -- but it's great cushioning, they don't rattle around and everyone is settled and rides even better than before.  It's amazing how well this works.  Because they are on the FLOOR rather than a seat no one is gonna fall off anything.  Any collision hard enough to send them thru the air is going to hurt someone and I'd rather they'd be able to get out if need be than have them in crates to burn to death.  The foam in the beds simply provides extra padding and I have extra blankets and bedding back there that cushions anything else. 
 
This works like a charm for us -- my husband and I are thrilled at how easy this makes everything.  WE do a ton of pet therapy so I'm always schlepping everything from rolling crates of dog stuff to the wagon we use for pet therapy to get the dogs up 'high' enough for kids in wheelchairs.  So this just plain keeps everyone and everything nice and settled and cushioned.

Callie, yeah that makes sense and would certainly simplify things.  I guess my concern is that if there's an accident, then if the tailgate flys open or a door or something like that, the dog may run off in terror and never be found again....  so many "what if's" right?  I hit a deer last year and it really made me rethink how I travel with the dogs.  After that, if there were only 2 of them, which was more common at that time, then they got seatbelted in.  It would prevent them from flying into the front of the vehicle but allowed them room to move around.  A barrier would definitely keep them from coming forward.  I guess I don't think of cars catching fire all that often so that didn't factor into it.  Just the flying forward and being even more injured by a full force smash into the front window.  And my dogs don't settle well, they want to look out the windows or be petted by us, sticking their noses up under our arms and such.  They settled well in my old car on the seat, but the van is too new and weird yet.  They do settle in the crates though.... but certainly something to consider... and the crates are pretty noisy though I can tune them out.  My BF can't on the other hand and hates them.

I used not to worry too much either until other basenji people were in an accident.  So the dogs were crated in the car, but not in the RV.  Then (more basenji people) were in an accident with their RV (rolled down a cliff).  Let's just say loose dogs on the highway don't last long. 

Here's why I use Kennelaire crates:

[linkhttp://www.newworldbasenjis.net/kennelaire.htm]http://www.newworldbasenjis.net/kennelaire.htm[/link]

Now, the Kennelaire's are pricey, but last forever.  I know dogshow people who are using 20+ year old crates.  And they don't rattle.  If you put a little piece of rubber tubing over the lip of the water pail and a towel under the pan, there's almost no noise.  (I got my last 2 20x30 crates on ebay.)
 
 
ETA:  geesh, I just reread this.  I make it sound like us basenji people are crazy drivers.  I'd like to add I've known of nonbasenji people with dogs to be in accedents too.  [&:]

Agilebasenji, so you would not recommend the type of crates that fold down?  I have one of those currently and the door on it has a similar mechanism as the Kennel Aire, in that it latches behind the wires on top and bottom with a closing latch thingy as well in the middle.  It's a Precision Great Crate.

My problem with the crates is because they will still take the impact but in addition the crate will either roll and tumble or potentially come apart partially and hurt them.  If the crate is fastened down there is still the huge potential that you can't get them OUT of the damaged vehicle. 
 
We travel with ours extensively and I do a LOT of training on what is and is NOT acceptable to ride with me.  They learn they MUST sit still.  PERIOD END OF SENTENCE.  I will ride with them next to me for weeks with literally about 6" of leash between me and them to teach them to settle down and ride.  Then I transition them into the back seat.  I take them ALL the time -- as much as possible which can be tough in Florida.  today was the first day it was cool enough to bring them and leave them in the car for a few minutes.  Which I did but then I hid around corners so I could come back out and say "EXCUSE ME??  I HEAR YOU!! No barking!! shhhh!!"
 
I had people cracking up BUT I got a car FULL of quiet dogs eventually. 
 
On Wednesday nite we will take off for Tampa with three dogs and one huge crate.  When we get to the motel they will be expected to ride nicely on the way there, and then conduct themselves like good citizens.  (they are ALL in training for their CGC -- Billy's got his but you can never get lazy LOL). 
 
They'll stay IN the motel room -- but will stay in a crate when we leave the room to go to breakfast, dinner, etc.
 
I've even been known to schlepp them down one by one to the reception area with a bag of treats.  SIMPLY to socialize them, and show them (and I tell them this constantly the first time they stay somewhere) "NO barking -- people are SUPPOSED to be here!!" -- and I make them go down to reception where I point out the desk and I show them that everyone who comes in HAS to go to that desk and sign in.  "THAT LADY (man) SAYS they can be there!!!"
 
I had the devil's own time with Luna = she's Miss Worrywart and she was convinced every person who walked down the hall of the motel was an evil-doer!!  Nope -- they paid to be here just like Dad and I!!!!
 
You may think I'm crazy BUT the upshot of it was, after her little training session in the reception area -- NO more barking at all!!  She truly got it -- she's mystified by the concept of 'money' -- Mom hands that lady-in-the-box at the drive thru this 'monies' thing and dang -- SHE GIVES US FOOD!!!  Because I talk about it -- and show them even when we pay tolls, they get the idea that you pay for stuff and you can then DO that thing.  So you pay to stay at that beddytimes away place and dang -- I guess everbuddy else does too.
 
Sooooooooooooooooo if I carry THAT to it's logical conclusion, do you suppose I should take them to the car dealer so they can see we paid LOTS of monies for this car so sit down, shut up, hang on and RIDE quietly??? *grin*
 
Seriouly, I know you didn't ask about more than riding in the car, but I think it's a whole package.  Often people feel they have to overp-restrain their dogs because the dogs generally don't ride well -- they don't stay in one place and generally are running and ramming all over the place -- and that IS dangerous. 
 
Sometimes it makes doing errands with a new dog a P.i.t.a. -- because I'll stop and GLARE at them "Excuse me?  YOU KNOW better! shhhh!!"  Or conversely I'll reward the ones doing it right. 
 
I honestly don't think you can completely prevent everything.  For every potential problem there are 99 things that can go wrong and more.  But if I can keep them settled down IN the car, keep peace and quiet reining so they are quiet and undercontrol -- then my risk of accident will be less if I can concentrate on what I'm doing.  If *I* can react right in an accident they'll be safer.

There isn't much that I disagree with Callie on, but this is one of those things.  Either a specific auto safety harness or a crate.  When we moved up here I carefully considered the idea of using our safety harnesses, but discarded that idea in thinking about having 3 dogs with the potential of enough movement to be distracting in the RV.  I was driving the rolling zoo alone and had the cats crated in the bedroom and THAT door closed.  So we used the travel crates on the fold out bed behind my seat and I never heard a peep out of them.  Granted that meant that my adult son and I shared rather cramped quarters in the queen sized bed, but the dogs were safe.  I had to go through some mountains and twisty roads and I felt better having them safely crated and unable to distract me OR become a loose projectile.  And 37 feet of motorhome is enough to handle without the dogs.
 
Going into town 95% of the time we put them in their harnesses.  I put the back seat of the van down into a bed and hook everyone in back there.  Since we only take 3 at a time that works for us.  Of course MY training isn't as extensive as Callies and my dogs don't ride that often in general so getting a bit excited and barking or roaming is more the norm without those harnesses.

Depending on the size of the dogs, your ability to get good mirrors, and the construction skills of the people involved,  crates can be stacked.
 
I feel that dogs in crates are safer than dogs not in crates.  My experience is limited to the stories that happened to belgian people.  The crate is not perfect, but it seems in most cases, the dogs were safer in the crate than out of it.  Sort of like the idea seatbelts are safer in most instances.
 
Crates that are still able to confine the dog make things much easier for the emergency personnel.  Because the dogs come way last in the clean up order.  A crated dog is less likely to get free in traffic or lost and bolt.
 
 

My dogs ride in crates... non-negotiable. After several close calls and fishing a lying down dog from the floor board, I bought a vehicle big enough to ride crates. My next plan is a minivan, where I can stack crates. As it is now I can get 4-5 vari-kennels in my SUV with the back seat down. I don't want them to become a flying missle.

In addition, when we travel the crates & SUV also act as a rolling kennel. If you're going to agility or flyball functions, I suspect you'll really come to appreciate the ability to easily get one dog in and out, and to have a safe place for down-time for the others.

You have to remember that it's not only the dog that needs safety, YOU need safety too. It's terrible to say, but a loose dog has the potential to be a very, very dangerous projectile in the event of an accident. Yes, a crate can split and hurt a dog, things do happen. Just like things do happen to people in car crashes who were wearing their seatbelts. But does this mean no seatbelt is better? Definitely not!

I can see where the loose-dog in car people are coming from (especially with the training it sounds like you guys put into it!), it just doesn't seem like the best idea to me. To keep yourself and your dogs safest, I think the best idea is to have some sort of plan for an accident, some way to get to the dogs quickly.

Best of luck!

I was in a serious accident and saw what loose things flying around can do. I have no desire to be beheaded by my own dog, frankly. I've known dogs to survive serious accidents IN crates but never OUT of crates.

I had a friend who coincidentally had an accident about three days before mine - they had a head on at moderate peed at a busy intersection. Two dogs were in crates and one was loose. The loose dog flew out the window and was almost immediately hit by a car and died on the scene. One of the crated dogs jumped out her crate, which was damaged, and was lost in the confusion - but found healthy but scared about two days later.

I had no dogs in my car when I had my accident, thank God. I drove a Chevy Silverado with four crates stacked in the back, with a camper top. I had a tub of sheep mineral back there (sort of a block of molasses and grain, like a giant piece of taffy) - which weighed 125 pounds. I hit the tree at about 35 mph and the tub launched, took off my camper top AND sheared off the top of my cab, and the highway patrol never found it because it shattered into microscopic parts when it hit the ground. The wire crates were destroyed - but the plastic crates made it out intact. A friend of mine who works for the Safety Division of the NCDOT tells me that an impact with a stationary object at 40 mph is like being dropped off a four story building. I believe it now.

I still use wire crates in the car because they fit better in the SUV - but I avoid it whenever I can. I do let my dogs ride loose but I have seat belts I use when I can.

I don't know what kind of minivan you have but I used to fit six crates in my Dodge Grand Caravan, plus one infant child. The crates had to be no more than 21" high - the inside was 44 1/2" inches tall. We used motorcycle tie down straps to connect them to the seat hardware in the floor (and the back of the van had two loops bolted to the floor, too). These are the ones that are made out of seat-belt-type material and ratchet down to snug it up. You can stack them and tie them down together.

It's much, much better for you dog to be in a SMALLER crate than a larger crate in an accident - especially if you are thinking of double crating as an alternative to stacking crates. Serious injury will result if the dogs crated together are in an accident and are crushed together. A seven pound infant weighs 400 pounds during a rapid deceleration from as little as 45 mph. Imagine what a 40 pound dog weighs.

It's a Honda Odyssey, slightly smaller than a Grand Caravan.  It's 50 by 54 behind the 2nd row seats and two 25" tall by 23" wide crates fit side by side with a little bit of room left over.

Do you use the folding kind of wire crates?  Or the drop pin kind?

I think it's much safer to strap the dogs into seatbelts. Dogs have been badly hurt by being hurled against the side of a crate in an accident. I have a barrier up, just in case any dogs get loose, and then the dogs get seat-belted in behind it. The belts are set up along the sides of the cargo space so the dogs can lie or sit comfortably in the open cargo area on a cushy bed, but in a collision no one is going flying.

The only way I ever travel with Girl is in a doggie booster seat with a harness attatching her to the car's seatbelt.  She's small, and if it weren't for the boost, she would tangle herself up in the seatbelt to try to look out the window.  If she were large, I would have a harness attached to either the seatbelt by a strap, or I would buy the universal strap that buckles right into your seatbelt socket thing, and just let her sit on the seat itself.
 
I feel like this is the safest way, because she will be supported, in the event of a wreck, enough to not be thrown around the entire car, or out of a broken window, or even run away in fear with me in a coma in the front seat.  I always have her in the backseat, diagonal to the driver's seat so I can keep an eye on here, and always with the harness on her.
 
Have you tried buckling them in?

I have buckled them in when I had the smaller sedan but only if there were just 2 along.  Any more than that and they would get tangled with each other.  Now that I have the van, putting them in crates is easier than trying to buckle them into a seat.  Not to mention if we go to the dog park, I dont' want them on the seat anyway with their muddy paws.

Brookcove, when you go to shows and such and use the kennel in the vehicle, do you not worry about the dogs being in a slightly too small crate?  I've thought of doing that and they just seem so squished.  But I guess they curl into little balls anyway....and they get out for breaks and runs and such.  Their crates at home are much more spacious than the vehicle but was thinking that since I can't get 4 in that they fit into, that 2 would be better than an open back design where they could all go flying around but remain in the back.....