Gaurd dog

guard dog or watch dog? I wouldn't want a guard dog with kids around who will eventually be wanting to bring friend over and whose parents will want to pick them up - just asking for trouble at some point....mostly with kids around.
Why not a security/alarm system?

Yes, there is a difference between a "guard" dog and a "watch" dog.  Small dogs can be good watch dogs because they tend to bark at most noises and bumps in the night, alerting the owners. Some breeds are not barkers and wouldn't make particularly good watch dogs.  I own one of them!  Kato doesn't bark in the house, ever.  People can come over and he doesn't make a peep.  He is a terrible watch dog.

A guard dog is different.  Most guard dogs are in the working group and tend to be more independent and job oriented.  That doesn't mean that some guard dogs don't make good family pets, but they aren't great for a novice owner and need lots of training and do well with NILIF program.

Great Pyrenese and Anatolian Shepards are good guard dogs.  Guarding animals is what they do.  However, I am not a fan of the AS as family pets as they are serious guard dogs and aloof with people.  Not for the average dog owner.

Dobermans, Rotties, SOME Mastiff breeds are inherently good guard dogs with people, but again, not for the novice owner.  And, your friend has a small dog with fear biting?  That presents another issue all together. 

Start with researching guard vs. watch breeds and different characteristics.  If they want a small dog, that pretty much leaves them out of the guard dogs anyway.
 
FYI....the English Mastiff is an excellent guard dog because of their size and they are good with people and children if socialized well and bred well.  They basically "patrol" their turf and make sure everything is as should be.  Kato is outside during the day (unless the weather is bad or cold or too hot!) and he sleeps most of it.  However, he will get up and "patrol" the yard around the perimeter periodically.  It's like he knows it's his job.  He rarely barks, unless he hears animals in the woods.  But his presence is formidable to anyone that comes around, which is what makes him a good guard dog!  BUT.....these are not outside dogs.  They have to be in the house with people and can't tolerate heat.  I don't know any of these guard breeds that can handle being outside 24/7 and still be part of the family and good with kids. 

 

Tell her to get a gun, not a dog.

This doesn't sound like they want a dog ... they want "something" to guard outside their house because of recent events.  

I think an alarm system and some solid locks would cover any issues they're worried about. Just my opinion though...
 
Edited to add: Dobes could never tolerate being outside all the time - I'm not sure where you are but I see snow in the background of your picture and a dobie's coat isn't adequate to live outside.

i have to agree with the alarm system...in the long run,it will be less expensive  and possibly more reliable,and wont bite anyone accidentally..

 if they dont want a gun in the house,there are alternatives...

This is an old problem, as old as domesticated dogs.  So I think they are on the right track.  Dog as alarm system?  Sure!  - I'm a fan of holistic, historic solutions. []

Look to the breeds developed to be all around farm dogs and family pets.  Remember a few things about these dogs, however:

• To do their jobs right, they need to be WITH their family 100% of the time, or as much as possible.  They figure out what's "Right" and "Wrong" by watching the daily routine and then using their brains to do something about aberrations ("Lassie!  Did Timmy fall in the WELL?").
• They are all active dogs - there's no such thing as a watchdog type that is also a couch potato!  But a few trips with their family members around the territory can make them very happy.
• They are all independent thinkers and need a training approach that emphasizes the dog doing something because HE thought of it, not because he was forced into it.
• The terriers are, um, well - they're terriers.  [8|]

Some good breeds:

• English shepherds are wonderful if they can upgrade their size - they are the truest to the original "farm collie" type that has since been turned into show dogs and herding maniacs.
• Shelties - find a breeder who breeds for solid temperaments and performance
• Corgi - either type
  
• Mini aussies - also called North American miniature shepherd or the somewhat contradictory name North American Miniature Australian shepherd.  Look for a breeder who is truly simply breeding for slightly smaller Aussies, not brachyo-challenged "toy" or "teacup" varieties of suspect genetic origin.
• Another bigger dog, but a tremendous family dog - Picardy shepherd
• Another rare breed, about Aussie size but smaller individuals occur - Spanish water dog or perro d' agua.  The SWD has a further advantage of having a poodle-type low shedding coat.
  
• Another contribution from France - Pyranean shepherd.  This is not the Great Pyrenees - the Pyr shep is a small tending/herding breed.
  
• Less in the "tending" and "watchdog" category, but terrific and alert family dogs - any of the spaniels
• Any of the terriers that historically were bred for watching, general purpose farm dogs
• Any of the bully breeds - of course be cautious about health and temperament when purchasing pups from breeders - and NEVER purchase from someone who advertises dogs bred to be people aggressive (guard dogs).
• Finally, there's nothing better than simply going to the shelter and picking out a mixed breed dog with the personality, size, and appearance that suits your family.  Most dogs will actually be a sufficient deterrant to intruders by their presence alone - they say that burgalars will bypass a house that even just has dog toys and a water dish outside.  If you are patient, you can find a dog that combines all the best features of the above breeds, and costs a tenth the cost or less.  Sadly, if you wait long enough, you can find almost anything in your local shelters.

The thing with an alarm thing is that I'm not sure they even have any police close to them.  Also, I think one of the main reasons they need it is to warn off stray dogs and other animals.  I'm not sure if they need a dog that will really hurt anyone hostile who comes, but one who will look mean enough for people not to mess with them. They had a big lab mix, but he got old and died. (he was like 15)
Like their little dog or Maggie could be a watch dog and warn someone that someone is there, but they take one glance at my 15lb dog or their 20lb one and laugh.  A gun wouldn't be good because they do have little boys and that is just a disaster waiting to happen, but so is a gaurd dog with their little boys.  I guess that is the problem,  if it can be dangerous, then kids will make it so. And any good gaurd dog would take lots of trainig.

I think something like a pit or pit mix that is past adolecence with a steady tempermant would actually work best. No one messes with them, and from what ya'll have told me they are really sweet and good with kids. But it would also have to be good with their little dog and a dog savvy cat.

We acctually live in a very fair climate, the last time it snowed was 1993. It was 80 degrees yesterday. We have wonderful winter whether. The pic in my siggy was some  tibetian mountians I got off the  net, lol.
But it does get rather hot in the summer, over 100 degrees sometimes.

They have been looking at getting a gaurd dog for about a year,  it has just been brought to their mind more because of recent events. It is gonna happen, so I want to have some ideas so they wont go and get an off the wall dog that is dangerous.

What do they need protection from ?
 

for a good outside watch/guard dog i would suggest a great pyrenese
they are intimidating but very sweet and good with animals
the lady i badysit for has yorkies,mini horses,goats and grandkids
and her pyrenese watches over all of them, keeps coyotes and stray dogs away
i have never owned one but he is a very sweet dog and is so gentle with her yorkies and baby minis
i am not sure on training or the type of excersise they would need and if they would be content guarding over a "human flock"
they would have to spend alot of time with him so he could create a bond with the family, if they want an outside dog maybe they could have it inside at night or for evenings

Most livestock guardian dogs (those from working lines) need more of a job than just hanging around the house and property.  Prys take considerable coat care if their coat is not correct.  A fair climate would be tough on a dog with that heavy a coat.  Also livestock guardians need considerable experience with strong, independent free thinking dogs on the part of the owner.  This is true of many of the working/herding breeds.  Add some sheep or goats to the picture, and things change considerably.  They would however need to get a started dog in my opinion, which ups the price considerably.

A GP with a correct working coat should be fine in hot weather - though some people shave them down. Some of the best working lines I know come from Texas. It is still a lot of work, though, to keep them decent looking. Better are Maremmas, Akbash, etc - from working lines, not strictly show lines (well, there are no show Maremma lines, but the AKC breeds that's something to beware of).

I don't think that's a good solution however. It takes a lot of training to keep a livestock guardian breed doing what you need it to, without livestock to guide its instincts. It also takes strong fencing to keep them from wandering around looking for work.

The main point I was trying to make above it that barking at strangers and when odd things happen has been the job of dogs for time immemorial and most of them still remember it. It's more a matter of choosing a dog that does well with the kids and with the lifestyle (a homebody breed rather than a wanderer, a breed that bonds strongly to family, etc) - rather than starting with the watching element. There are so many breeds that would fit the bill that a trip to the shelter really should be the first stop on the "dog search" journey.

They will most definatly look at the shelter fisrt. They already have, but didn't find anything.
 Because they live in the country they get a lot of stray dogs. (And then a neighbor started shooting them[:@]) A lot of times they will clean them up and try to adopt them out. Their old dog was one they kept. Hopefully a good dog will wander its way into their lives. But not wander far enought to get shot by there neighbor.  They might get an invisable fence because they can't take the chace of it wandering into the neighbors yard.
 It is actually them and another neighbor who are looking for a dog that would be able to be in both their yards. I'm not sure if the other neihgbor will help with training or not, but it would be nice. They had a lovely dog that was great, but someting happend to him. My friends used to have cows and goats, but they sold them. I think they might rent out their fields for some horses.

Why don't they get a fence to prevent stray dogs from wandering onto the property and a nice medium sized dog for in the house as a deterrent and alarm system, a doggie door would also allow some roaming of the yard - sounds like they have unrealistic expectations of what a "guard dog" can/should do, and with little kids that will end up having friends over frequently, a solid pet dog will be a better match than a "guard dog" -- I think you need to convince them that they aren't really in need of a "guard dog".
 
btw Pits shouldn't be left outside unattended, especially in an unfenced or invisible fenced yard - it's too risky as people can and will steal dogs for fighting and pits are high on that list.  I also am not sure I would trust a younger pit around small animals - animal aggression can appear after 2 or 3 years of age w/ no prior indication of the predisposition as I understand; remember that Pits were bred to be animal aggressive...

Great advice stardog! []