NO TRESPASSING

ORIGINAL: sooner

But they'll never say "no contractors can live here". That would be discrimination. They only say that their trucks can't be parked there. That's not discrimination.

maybe not specifically, but in a round a bout way they are. anyways, we are not voting for the new amendments. i think there are enough blue collar families in our neighborhood that if they really read the proposed amendments will vote against them as well. my biggest fear is that we will have one of those crazy HOA's that you hear about on the news. i dont want to live like that.

it's like i tell my wife... "we pay the f---ing bills around here and unless they are willing to pay them, those SOB's can mind their own g.d. business."

ORIGINAL: cakana

I fully understand why some folks don't want to live in an HOA, I just don't understand why some buy into one and then complain about the rules or disobey them [:@]. 

same here, but what i was talking about are proposed amendments that were not in place when we bought the house. the rules that were in place when we bought the house are fine and we  abide by them.

ORIGINAL: cakana

That may be true if it were a city, state or nation-wide law, but if you choose to live in that neighborhood then you choose to live by the HOA rules. Just like this forum, free speech doesn't apply because you have to agree to the rules when signing up.

Exactly my thoughts!!  I live in a gated community with an HOA.  We bought there specifically because of the "rules".  The home we had before was at the end of a cul-de-sac and when you drove in, you'd have sworn it was a used car lot.  No one put even one car in their garage.  Then a family moved in next door with 2 ice cream trucks.  They kept one on the street with an electrical cord running up the driveway into the garage.  Anyway...it took awhile to sell that house and the changes in the neighborhood probably cost us several thousand dollars.  We weren't interested in going thru that again with the biggest investment of our life.  I fully understand why some folks don't want to live in an HOA, I just don't understand why some buy into one and then complain about the rules or disobey them [:@]. 

Well how about in the case of the poster- where the new rules are being considered. Just because your work truck might be grandfathered in doesn't make the rule okay. And as for - just don't live there - mentality. Sorry that didn't wash when there were race covenants and shouldn't work for class covenants.  It's economic tyranny.

Paula

On the news here awhile back there was a story of a family that wound up taking their HOA to court ... and won ... because the HOA objected to them flying a flag on their property.  I think when an incident becomes very public the HOA is more likely to back down rather than continue to look just plain stupid.

Joyce

ORIGINAL: paulaedwina

Well how about in the case of the poster- where the new rules are being considered. Just because your work truck might be grandfathered in doesn't make the rule okay. And as for - just don't live there - mentality. Sorry that didn't wash when there were race covenants and shouldn't work for class covenants.  It's economic tyranny.

Living in a HOA governed place leaves you subject to the rules, old and new.

As for the rest of that, I really think you're reading a little too much into it. No one is discriminating by class. Some of the richest people I know are people that drive work trucks. The rules are to keep the neighborhood looking nice, it has nothing to do with the status of the person who owns the truck.

ORIGINAL: sooner

ORIGINAL: paulaedwina

Well how about in the case of the poster- where the new rules are being considered. Just because your work truck might be grandfathered in doesn't make the rule okay. And as for - just don't live there - mentality. Sorry that didn't wash when there were race covenants and shouldn't work for class covenants.  It's economic tyranny.

Living in a HOA governed place leaves you subject to the rules, old and new.

As for the rest of that, I really think you're reading a little too much into it. No one is discriminating by class. Some of the richest people I know are people that drive work trucks. The rules are to keep the neighborhood looking nice, it has nothing to do with the status of the person who owns the truck.

Of course they are discriminating by class. The reasons are exactly the same as when there were race covenenants - people are trying to preserve the economic value of their property by controlling how it appears, who lives there, etc. So for instance, when I was looking for property to build on, a covenant that said the house you built had to be at least 2000 sqft, of brick or stone at least 80% and had to have an attached two car garage (I am not making this up either) is discriminating against an economic class - in this case rural not-so-wealthy - by making it cost prohibitive for them to build there. The question becomes what exercise is unreasonable in one's pursuit of economic stability? Where does the other man's nose begin?

So I put it to you that when the HOA decides that box vans or pick up trucks of a certain length or pick up trucks with tools would be prohibited they didn't do it by accident or out of naivete.

I have to tell you that housing and architecture are one of my side interests so I tend to pay very close attention to HOAs and the like.

Paula

i think at the very least the amendments are vague in the way they are worded to the extent that some of them are left to the interpretation, and i am worried about who is in charge of making those interpretations.

here are verbatim (copied from email sent by the HOA) the two amendments i have issues with, read them and tell me what this is trying to accomplish....

"·                      Animals. No animals, livestock, or poultry of any kind shall be raised, bred, or kept on any Lot, except that a reasonable number of cats, dogs, and other household pets may be kept within the residence and are not kept, bred, or maintained for any commercial purposes or become a nuisance to the neighborhood.  No person owning or having custody of an animal shall allow the animal to stray or go upon another Owner's Lot without the consent of such Owner.  All animals shall be on a leash when out of the Owner's Lot.  All pet owners shall be responsible for cleaning his/her animal's mess. ·                      Vehicles, Boats, and Trailers. No vehicle of any kind shall be parked on any part of the Lot except on the paved driveway or within a garage.  No oversized truck or vehicle may be parked within the properties of the Subdivision.  The term "Oversized” shall mean Dump Trucks, Tractor Trailers, Box Van Trucks, Roll Backs, School Buses, or any similar sized vehicle.  No vehicles will be permitted to be parked on the streets overnight.  If family is in town, and there is no room in the Driveway, an exception will be granted for that time, up to, seven (7) days.  No vehicle maintenance which requires more than seven (7) days work shall be allowed on the Lot unless done inside the garage and out of view to the public.  No boats, camping trailers, motor homes or recreational vehicles shall be placed on any lot unless such is stored within a garage or behind the residence so as not to be visible from the front of the residence."

the one about animals leaves no room for dog fanciers who are breeding show quality dogs, and what exactly is a "reasonable number" when we are talking about cats and dogs? not to mention that picking up poop and leashing your dog is covered in the county leash laws. why do we have to restate them?

the second one.... "similar sized vehicle". i know one of the people on the HOA board drives (as a work vehicle) a 4 dr long bed pick-up and pulls a closed trailer behind it. does it fall within these guidelines? if not, why is it so different from a box van? a box van may actually be smaller than what i describe. it is parked in his driveway and is clearly visible from the street. what about corner lots? a family on a corner lot owns an RV. they park it behind their house, but from one street it is clearly visible. as to the box van, what do you do when moving in/out of a house? most people move using a uhaul or something similar. what is a uhaul truck if not a box van? god forbid if one of the stay at home moms wanted to drive a bus![&:]

there are others, and i do have problems with some of them as well. these were just the worst 2.

Of course they are discriminating by class. The reasons are exactly the same as when there were race covenenants - people are trying to preserve the economic value of their property by controlling how it appears, who lives there, etc. So for instance, when I was looking for property to build on, a covenant that said the house you built had to be at least 2000 sqft, of brick or stone at least 80% and had to have an attached two car garage (I am not making this up either) is discriminating against an economic class - in this case rural not-so-wealthy - by making it cost prohibitive for them to build there. The question becomes what exercise is unreasonable in one's pursuit of economic stability? Where does the other man's nose begin?

It still isn't discrimination. Not as long as there are other choices about where to live. No one is forcing a person to build in that particular neighborhood if it is beyond their means.

So I put it to you that when the HOA decides that box vans or pick up trucks of a certain length or pick up trucks with tools would be prohibited they didn't do it by accident or out of naivete.

No, they did it because they don't like the look of trucks parked in the driveway. Not everyone that drives a truck is lower or even middle class. It has nothing to do with the status of the person driving the truck, just the trucks themselves.

The term "Oversized” shall mean Dump Trucks, Tractor Trailers, Box Van Trucks, Roll Backs, School Buses, or any similar sized vehicle.

That sounds like vehicles with more than two axles. That's not unreasonable.

ORIGINAL: sooner

The term "Oversized” shall mean Dump Trucks, Tractor Trailers, Box Van Trucks, Roll Backs, School Buses, or any similar sized vehicle.

That sounds like vehicles with more than two axles. That's not unreasonable.

Ya okay I give up. You're right, it has nothing to do with economic tyranny.

Paula

No, they did it because they don't like the look of trucks parked in the driveway. Not everyone that drives a truck is lower or even middle class. It has nothing to do with the status of the person driving the truck, just the trucks themselves.

 
True and a good example is the neighbors who lived in the cul-de-sac beside me.  They owned a commericial landscape company and had 2 large company trucks.  They were beautiful (and no doubt, expensive).  Still, they violated the rules a) for keeping 2 vehicles in the driveway and b) for keeping a commercial vehicle out at all.  So the family received numerous letters until they found a storage place for the trucks.  They sold their home about a year ago for $800K.  I hardly think they were lower or even middle-class.

I live in a lovely gated community. The houses are all custom built, they do not look alike. Each yard is different. There are rules, but each commun. is very diff. It is good to keep communites looking nice. Nowdays, people are not always neat and care for property, so rules help. The guards and gate keep it safe and that is important to me justs as property value is.
 
 You just live where you want to live. You do not have to live in a place you do not want to live in.
 
 

ORIGINAL: sooner

That sounds like vehicles with more than two axles. That's not unreasonable.

none of the school buses around here have more than two axles. box vans could be debateable as to whether they would have more than two axles or not, but what i define as a box van usually only has two axles. doing a google image search this is some of what comes up using "box van"....





neither of these trucks has more than two axles, and they are consistent with the types of vehicles many contractors drive. i still see no reason that if this is your work vehicle why could it not be parked on your own property.

edit: especially when my neighbor has his own carpet cleaning business and uses a minivan. the rules arent against that, but if the van were slightly bigger he would be in violation. that to me is a pretty fine line. his van used to look similar to the one below, but the recently changed their logo and it is much gawdier looking now....



so would you be ok with having the above van parked next door?

If you live where there are no rules I am sure that can be parked at a home. 

that is just the point. the HOA is proposing new rules that are vague.