Neutering and the male perspective

well, yes, testicles are important to me...but not as important as they used to be.
 
no, me and sparky never discussed the subject...so i just have to do my best to figure it out...i'm not surprised that different people come to different conclusions.

Faramir, I'm sorry but I still don't quite understand the point you're trying to make - especially the question of whether or not we have the right to make decisions for our dogs.  If not us, then who? It's not as though a dog can take him/herself to the vet and get into a discussion about whether procreation would be a good thing for them or not. We make decisions we feel to be in the best interest of our animals just like we make decisions we feel to be in the best interest of our children. If we go around questioning every decision and wondering if, years down the road, we would have made that same decision, we'll never decide anything.

Joyce

fuzzymom...maybe i don't have a point...what i am saying is that the comfort level that most people here have with neutering their dogs is not a comfort that i share...
 
i think i believe in "dog rights" more than most people...i believe that if i take a dog under my wing, then it is my responsibility to be provide him with an environment that meets his canine needs....
 
to me, this means:  he has a good off-leash run almost every day...he plays with other dogs almost every day...i often allow him to get filthy...i try to make him feel like an equal member of the household...i try to understand his body language, different forms of barking etc, and react to them, so that he feels understood...
 
and part of me is uncomfortable with neutering him...even though there are many good reasons to do it...as i mentioned, he was already neutered when i got him...i purposefully got a neutered dog, so i could avoid this decision.

i was just re-reading some of my posts on this thread...i think i come off as a pretentious a--hole.

Just a note...

I consider myself somone who contemplates the possibility that animals have rights more than most people in this country and all my pets are spayed and neutered. It is our responsibility, as the species that even created these animals in the first place, to keep the population in check and to prevent totally preventable diseases. I don't believe my dogs can choose to do whatever they want because they simply don't have the capacity to make that choice wisely for themselves. They are not wild animals, they are domestic and tend to choose to do things like eat coffee grounds and injest plastic.  It doesn't mean they don't have rights. It just means they have rights in the same way that a young child does, or a mentally retarded adult.

ORIGINAL: DPU

I am not against neutering male dogs but when the procedures was performed on my dog I had no idea I would react so dramatically.  I thought it would be just like my perception of a vascectomy-NOT VISBLE and intact.  This was a long time ago but I remember feeling so bad for the dog and I was constantly reminded of the absence.  Isn't there another way?  Sorry for my ignorance.

Dogs can be vasectomized - it is just not a widely practiced procedure. Personally I prefer the look of an intact dog myself. All my dogs are castrated at the moment, but I cannot garauntee I won't vasectomize in the future. Understand that vasectomy just makes them infertile, but does not affect any secondary sex behaviors or complications thereof.

Paula

ORIGINAL: faramir

Have you talked to him about the risks of cancer and perianal hernias?

so, if you found out that your son was at greater risk for cancer or perianal hernias, you would neuter him too?
besides, i never see anyone refer to real scientific literature as to how much these different risks go up.

I did some research into the topic years ago and found that the risk of prostate cancer increases with age but that the odds are about the same in human males and dogs. Go figure. I'll have to try to find the research again.

Paula

ORIGINAL: Xerxes

ORIGINAL: faramir

Have you talked to him about the risks of cancer and perianal hernias?

so, if you found out that your son was at greater risk for cancer or perianal hernias, you would neuter him too?
besides, i never see anyone refer to real scientific literature as to how much these different risks go up.

We don't ask 3 day old or younger baby boys whether or not they want to be circumsized...And the reduction in UTIs is minimal from the stats I've read.

But comparing dogs to people is wrong in this respect.  Dogs do what they do out of a biological imperative:  People have a bit more going on for them, I'd like to hope.

Interesting comparison Xerxes because I probably won't circumsize my male baby (imaginary) either.

Paula

jojo the pogo
I live in Indiana. It's a giant hillbilly state.

 
Now I am laughing my head off..I don't believe you got away with saying this.
 
Pauledwina...thank you, my vet never presented this option plus in another post I state I have not seen any behavioral changes in my dogs as a result of castration.

ORIGINAL: DPU

jojo the pogo
I live in Indiana. It's a giant hillbilly state.

Now I am laughing my head off..I don't believe you got away with saying this.

Pauledwina...thank you, my vet never presented this option plus in another post I state I have not seen any behavioral changes in my dogs as a result of castration.

If you ask your vet about it he will probably tell you but it is just not widely practiced. It is probably mroe expensive, and like I said, doesn' t affect secondary sex behaviors that we might find unacceptable. There is a pet rights website that has good information about spaying and neutering. Personally I find their positions in general a little extreme for my comfort zone, but in the process of advocating they have put together, IMO, some decent information about sterilization.  They are not anti speuter, they are anti-castration and hysterectomy (pro vasectomy and ligation).

http://www.petrights.org/malepets.htm

Paula

houndlove: . It is our responsibility, as the species that even created these animals in the first place, to keep the population in check and to prevent totally preventable diseases.
 
whoa whoa...you might want to reword that...humans did not create dogs...maybe we bred them from wolves (one theory)...and continued to breed them into many varieties...but we did not create them.
-----------------------------------------
houndlove: I don't believe my dogs can choose to do whatever they want because they simply don't have the capacity to make that choice wisely for themselves. They are not wild animals, they are domestic and tend to choose to do things like eat coffee grounds and injest plastic.
 
no, they don't have the capacity to decide...and i totally agree with your next statement:  It doesn't mean they don't have rights.
 
but i totally disagree with this next statement of yours:
 It just means they have rights in the same way that a young child does, or a mentally retarded adult.
 
dogs are helpless, because they are living in our society, and don't know how to cope here...they are dependent on us now...sparky is almost an adult dog...he has plenty of dignity...there is a part of him that is not a child, and he certainly isn't retarded.

sparky is almost an adult dog...he has plenty of dignity...there is a part of him that is not a child, and he certainly isn't retarded.

 
But he's not Einstein either.
 
Strauss is intact.  At this point...I'm having a REALLY hard time with the neuter issue, because he's had them for two years and I'm used to them.  He'll probably stay intact unless there is a health issue.
 
The Labrador on the other hand, is going to be neutered.  His balls are huge, and ugly.  Strauss's are at least hidden by the fur of his "pants" and aren't easily seen unless he's gaiting or jumping.
 
Dogs choose to breed through instinct of desire to pass on their genes to the next generation, not because they find it enjoyable.  I personally prefer vasectomies to neuters these days anyway. 
 
If I have to choose between testicular cancer and hermangiosarcoma/osteosarcoma, I'm taking the testicular.  I can hack those off.  It doesn't spread quickly and is the least aggressive cancer to treat.  I can't cut off my dogs legs, and I have to give him radiation treatments.  I'll take the less radical of the two.

Well, gee -- so, if you leave your dog intact you get to CHOOSE what kind of cancer?  Whatta thot.
 
And you are assuming that you will KNOW about the cancer quickly enough to "hack those off" before it metastasizes?  Shoot -- I wonder if the medical community knows about that -- does the same hold true for prostate cancer?
 
Gee, what an intelligent thread..
 

I personally prefer vasectomies to neuters these days anyway.

Wow there's two of us. I never gave it much thought until three things occured. First I read Elizabeth Marshall Thomas ("The Hidden Life of Dogs" and "The Social Lives of Dogs"). It was the first time I'd heard about vasectomizing dogs. The second thing that happened was that I fostered Chester - an intact rhodesian ridgeback (I am a volunteer with rhodesian ridgeback rescue). Third thing was that I read a horse training book by John Lyons. His favorite mount at the time was an Appoloosa stallion.

I liked how Chester looked and Chester looked very different from the neutered dogs I was used to. He had heavier muscling, a thicker neck and - I admit this one is anecdotal - a steadier personality. Granted that some intact males have not so steady personalities of course. Further, he didn't have any of those 'evil intact dog' behaviors I'd internalized as part and parcel of keeping a dog intact. It made me plan to wait to neuter Yoshi until he was about a year old to see if I could some of the features of a sexually mature dog before I castrated him. It didnt' work out that way; he had dermoid sinus surgery at 4 1/2 months and I had him neutered at the same time instead of putting him out again in 7 months.

I am still not 100% on vasectomy because I still have predjudices about intact male dog behaviors and in my mind I foresee this leg lifting, people eating, dog hating humper. As for cancers - I think it is about risk assessment. Every heat a bitch goes through she risks pyoderma.  I read that after age 8 1 in 150 dogs observed had prostate cancer. To me they aren't the same risk levels.

So I' m still working on it.
Paula

ORIGINAL: calliecritturs

Well, gee -- so, if you leave your dog intact you get to CHOOSE what kind of cancer?  Whatta thot.

And you are assuming that you will KNOW about the cancer quickly enough to "hack those off" before it metastasizes?  Shoot -- I wonder if the medical community knows about that -- does the same hold true for prostate cancer?

Gee, what an intelligent thread..

Don't try and make out my post like that.  Maybe people didn't read into it like I thought they would.  Studies have shown (and I will get links) that hermangio and osteosarcoma has shown up MORE in neutered males that intact.  I'm going to stack the odds in my favor.  Who knows, maybe my dog will get some sort of cancer anyway, I'd hope he wouldn't, but when there are studies out there saying neutered animals end up with more "bodily" cancers than unaltered, it concerns me.

Poor Ranger went through hell after his neuter, which is another reason I'm not such a fan of neutering anymore either.
 
I'd also like to add that neither of my boys had/have the "evil" intact male tendencies.  Yeah, they lift their legs.  So what?  Big freaking deal.  Keeps em from peeing all over their pasterns.  Strauss doesn't fight with other boys, intact or not, save the Labrador (and I don't know what that's about...I just don't let em out together anymore), he isn't a mad humper (sometimes he'll try the Lab...but it's rare), he doesn't roam (Because I don't let him), and if I tell him not to, he doesn't bother bitches in heat.
 
Ranger lifts his leg, he used to roam because his primary caretaker let him, he doesn't hump anything, he doesn't fight with other intact boys.  He was neutered at 9 years of age.  No change in personality.  I think all that stuff about personality changing and habits being cut down on is bunk.
 
If a dog is going to lift his leg, he's going to lift his leg.  I know dogs that were neutered at 6 months of age that weren't lifting their legs before the neuter...they lifted their legs after.  Well, there goes the theory that a dog won't lift his leg if he's altered.  I know males that are dog/male aggressive aftered they've been altered.  Throw that theory out the window.  If you don't train a dog not to wander and you leave it outside by itself, chances are if its not contained in some way...it's going to wander!!  So, those are all things I throw right out the window as reasons to neuter.
 
The only viable reason I see these days to neuter, is to decrease the chance of cancer of the reprouctive organs and eliminate the chance of a litter should your dog ever escape.  I don't think spaying/neutering has anything at all to do wtih pet overpopulation, and I never will.  The only thing that will keep animal population in check, is the humans, and that can be done whether you alter your animal or not.