Neutering and the male perspective

Paula, I'm an older educated woman (aging hippie) and I too can be quite vulgar, as I'm sure Anne can, BUT there is a time and a place for vulgarity, and maybe it's the fact that both of us ARE older that we find that sort of thing a bit more offensive than the younger folks do.
 
I recall a new poster who I took to task for profanity, rather nicely, I thot, and got BLASTED that this that and the other word were NOT considered cussing in HIS world.  
 
Sadly, I think so many words that WE considering cussing and/or vulgar have become quite commonplace in today's society.  In MY youth, swearing was a sign of immaturity and/or ignorance.  Today its much more the norm.  But, I'm wierd...I call a penis a penis, a vagina a vagina and testicles testicles......definately NOT the norm for my generation.

ORIGINAL: glenmar

Paula, I'm an older educated woman (aging hippie) and I too can be quite vulgar, as I'm sure Anne can, BUT there is a time and a place for vulgarity, and maybe it's the fact that both of us ARE older that we find that sort of thing a bit more offensive than the younger folks do.

I recall a new poster who I took to task for profanity, rather nicely, I thot, and got BLASTED that this that and the other word were NOT considered cussing in HIS world.  

Sadly, I think so many words that WE considering cussing and/or vulgar have become quite commonplace in today's society.  In MY youth, swearing was a sign of immaturity and/or ignorance.  Today its much more the norm.  But, I'm wierd...I call a penis a penis, a vagina a vagina and testicles testicles......definately NOT the norm for my generation.

Well truly, balls isn't really considered real vulgarity these days at all. And I cannot help but feel that the poster's response was more against the position taken (not neutering because the first poster likes the look of balls on her dog) than with any percieved profanity.

As for body parts - I know what they're called, but I find jools, whooha, winky, and boobies much more poetic.

Paula

As for body parts - I know what they're called, but I find jools, whooha, winky, and boobies much more poetic.

 
And that, I think, is a function of age....you're young and I'm well, not. []
 
I won't presume to know what Anne's motivation was in her post, but with all the medical evidence to the contrary, I'm not sure liking the looks of "balls" is a great reason to NOT nueter.  But, everyone gets to make their own choices.

Okay, so today I discussed this thread with my husband.  He said that he would never not nueter a dog or cat because he knows of the whole over population thing and also that I would ring his neck.  But, anyways, he said he can understand why some men don't want to neuter their dogs.  Here's what he says...

Men without testosterone have very little energy to do anything. 

He went on to explain that after he's had sex, he is lazy and doesn't want to do anything and that he's sure that's what men are thinking when they choose not to have their animals fixed.  That...

Their dog will not be protective or good hunting dogs if they are fixed.

Now I compared that to my Joey, who is fixed and a hyper little terrier who barks like  he's going to rip the the head off anyone that comes to our door and  has caught a few moles.  And also to female dogs that are aggressive and excellent hunters.

I don't really know if testicles have anything to do with the amount of testosterone in a male dogs body.  I do know that if an animal is fixed too early their hormones that create muscle mass won't develope, which can make joint problems worse.  According to my vet it also prevents the dog from "growing up."  Meaning they won't settle down as adults.  Joey was nuetered at 1 year.  He was a rescue that I rescued at 6 months, without any money.  After much begging, my mother took him in and fixed him.  Yeh for Mom!  He has excellent muscle mass. 

Max was neutered before I could take him home (est. between 3 & 5 mo. old) and he is smaller than a full grown lab or shepherd - although there could be something else in the mix, too. Aside from the fact that his penis is smaller, he doesn't look any different than any other neutered dog. As for growing up, he really has mellowed out and settled down very nicely for a dog that we suspect might be half lab. He's about 2-1/2 give or take, and I really expected the "puppy behavior" to go on for another year or so.

Joyce

ORIGINAL: jojo the pogo

Okay, so today I discussed this thread with my husband.  He said that he would never not nueter a dog or cat because he knows of the whole over population thing and also that I would ring his neck.  But, anyways, he said he can understand why some men don't want to neuter their dogs.  Here's what he says...

Men without testosterone have very little energy to do anything. 

He went on to explain that after he's had sex, he is lazy and doesn't want to do anything and that he's sure that's what men are thinking when they choose not to have their animals fixed.  That...

Their dog will not be protective or good hunting dogs if they are fixed.

Now I compared that to my Joey, who is fixed and a hyper little terrier who barks like  he's going to rip the the head off anyone that comes to our door and  has caught a few moles.  And also to female dogs that are aggressive and excellent hunters.

I don't really know if testicles have anything to do with the amount of testosterone in a male dogs body.  I do know that if an animal is fixed too early their hormones that create muscle mass won't develope, which can make joint problems worse.  According to my vet it also prevents the dog from "growing up."  Meaning they won't settle down as adults.  Joey was nuetered at 1 year.  He was a rescue that I rescued at 6 months, without any money.  After much begging, my mother took him in and fixed him.  Yeh for Mom!  He has excellent muscle mass. 

Well I don't think protective instinct has anything to do with male hormone; case in point  - female dogs that are protective, and Milo, my male early neuter who is protective.  Maybe with regards to schutzhund and such handlers do notice more game in an intact animal...but that is beyond my ken.

There are indeed complications to early neuter. For instance the great bones (thigh bones for example) grow longer and thinner so early neuters look leggy. I read something about early neuter females having incontenence issues  - which makes sense because spayed females in general, as their female hormone lags (usually in later years) they develop spay incontinence and it is treated with DES (hormone) usually.

Certain types of cancers are seen in early neuter dogs - the link is in this thread somewhere.

Paula

I agree.
 
And I will state again that the only reason to keep a dog intact is either for growth reasons or to breed. Once either reason is no longer valid, it is time to spay/neuter. There are health reasons, though people may debate that with this or that study, etc. But there are way too many pets in the world. And a pet can get lose, even by the most freakish of circumstances. It can happen. And a loose intact dog may just start another litter. The best thing to do with unwanted pups is to not have them in the first place.
 
Reasons of aesthetics or male identification with their pets sexual organs are, IMO, the wrong reason to keep a dog intact, regardless of one's education or lack thereof. I think it is wrong to keep a dog intact because you, the human, prefer the look of a filled sac, and thereby expose your dog to the real possibility of testicular cancer and prostatitis and perianal hernia, and exposing the world to yet another "oops" litter. While it's okay to have the opinion that a dog should remain unaltered, it's also okay for someone, such as myself to say that I think that opinion is wrong. However, human psychology does enter into it. And people get their dander up. FWIW, I'm a big guy. 6' 6", 240 lbs, training in hand to hand combat, including 6 different forms of martial arts, am full of testosterone, love women so much I got married a second time, listen to Ted Nugent, etc., etc. And I had Shadow neutered and we just had Jade, our kitten, neutered a few weeks ago. It is part of proper animal husbandry. Sometimes, being a big guy means doing the right thing, whether you want to or not.

ORIGINAL: ron2

I agree.

And I will state again that the only reason to keep a dog intact is either for growth reasons or to breed. Once either reason is no longer valid, it is time to spay/neuter. There are health reasons, though people may debate that with this or that study, etc. But there are way too many pets in the world. And a pet can get lose, even by the most freakish of circumstances. It can happen. And a loose intact dog may just start another litter. The best thing to do with unwanted pups is to not have them in the first place.

Reasons of aesthetics or male identification with their pets sexual organs are, IMO, the wrong reason to keep a dog intact, regardless of one's education or lack thereof. I think it is wrong to keep a dog intact because you, the human, prefer the look of a filled sac, and thereby expose your dog to the real possibility of testicular cancer and prostatitis and perianal hernia, and exposing the world to yet another "oops" litter. While it's okay to have the opinion that a dog should remain unaltered, it's also okay for someone, such as myself to say that I think that opinion is wrong. However, human psychology does enter into it. And people get their dander up. FWIW, I'm a big guy. 6' 6", 240 lbs, training in hand to hand combat, including 6 different forms of martial arts, am full of testosterone, love women so much I got married a second time, listen to Ted Nugent, etc., etc. And I had Shadow neutered and we just had Jade, our kitten, neutered a few weeks ago. It is part of proper animal husbandry. Sometimes, being a big guy means doing the right thing, whether you want to or not.

I neuter for the sole purpose of not contributing pups to the over population problem and because in breeds only proved quality should be bred. It is my aesthetic preference however, for the intact looks. That's why I'm considering vasectomy in the future.

Paula

That's why I'm considering vasectomy in the future.

 
I think that would be a suitable alternative, if the look is that important. OTOH, people around me and Shadow can be comforted by a quick glance to note that he is neutered. He hasn't missed and I don't even think about, even when he's stretched like a pretzel on his back with one paw up in the air and watching t.v. upside down. He may have something. I think maybe some shows make better sense that way.
 

and watching t.v. upside down. He may have something. I think maybe some shows make better sense that way.

Bah, I've got rid of TV all together. I got tired of paying for the honor of watching crap. When we can cherry pick cable stations I'll start paying for it again. Until then,I've got the netflix.

Paula

Until then,I've got the netflix

 
Also a smart alternative. You don't have to suffer through the t.v. doldrums of 80 channels to watch and nothing on worth watching.
 

ORIGINAL: ron2

Until then,I've got the netflix

Also a smart alternative. You don't have to suffer through the t.v. doldrums of 80 channels to watch and nothing on worth watching.

It has completely ruined me for regular TV.  I find that on the occaisions I have the chance to watch real TV, I have no tolerance for commercial breaks. I'm good for the first 10 minutes of a show, but then commercials and my attention is so not there anymore. I think TiVo people have been similarly ruined.

Paula

True.
 
And one more thing, per the topic here.
 
[linkhttp://brightlion.com/InHope.aspx]http://brightlion.com/InHope.aspx[/link]