Doberman ears/tails

If you check our archives you will find numerous discussions on the topic. It makes people cranky in general eventually, lol so there's you forewarning [].
 
My feeling is that if you do it fine if you choose not to fine...the LIFELONG care and love of the dog is more important than one thing or another done in early puppyhood, that has no ill effect on the rest of it's lifetime.
 
As Forrest Gump would say..."and that's all I have to say 'bout that..."

I feel pretty passionate about this topic, so I'm just going to say that it's banned here in Oz, as well, and leave it at that.

Mista Tumnus,
Why are you starting this thread?  Are you tring to start trouble?  That is what you have done.  This subject will always be a debate.  As long as their are people who crop and dock their will be people who don't agree.  That is what makes the world go around.  Everyone having different thoughts and opinions.  It would be a very boring world if everyone thought the same.  To crop and dock is a personal decision.  When the doberman was created they had docked tails and cropped ears.  That is the way they were meant to look.  When dobermans are left natural they to me don't look like dobermans.  They look like hound dogs.  I personally like the crop and dock look.  The tails are done when the puppies are just a few days old.  When new born babies are born they get a lot of shots and blood drawn.  They will scream bloody murder when they are being stuck by the needles, but they are just fine once they are done with all the testing.  The same goes for the puppies that have their tails docked.  The ears are done under anesthesia.  Afterwards the vet sends home pain medicine for a few days.  After that their isn't any ain in the ears just itchy stitches.  Also the taping of the ears is annoying to the puppy, but not painful.  Another reason why I like cropped ears is I find ear care to be easier.  When the ears are cropped they are standing all the time and that helps with kepping them dry.  With natural ears (that are floppy) tend to have or be prone to ear problems.  The floppy ears don't allow air to get in the ear to help keep them dry.  If the floppy ears get wet and the moisture stays in the ears that might or will cause ear infections.  Also with floppy ears they are or get dirty easier.  Floppy ears require more attention than cropped ears do I think.  When I got my doberman I wanted him to look like a doberman not a hound dog.  If I wanted a hound dog I would have gotten one.  I got my doberman's ears cropped and when people see him they know from a distance what breed of dog he is.

Because I don't own a breed or will probably never own a breed that comes from a history of cropping/docking, I really don't have much of a say in weather I agree or disagree with this issue.  But what I do have to say is that there are more vets now in the US then before that refuse to crop ears.  Some will do the docking but with some regret.  Any surgery on the ears is bloody and requires much skill.  A lot of vets don't agree with de-clawing cats either but do it because they can't avoid it.  Vets do a lot of thing they don't want to do but many draw the line at certain things like ear cropping.  Some vets will only do it for professional breeders. 

Because it's such a serious issue amongst vets and many others I avoided it all together by not owning a dog of that sort.  I choose my future breed because that's what I feel comfortable with.  If the owner prefers to choose a breed that may require such procedures it's up to them if they wish to have that done and their responsibility to find a good vet who knows what he/she is doing. 

I hate to see home jobs gone bad, only a vet or professional should do this.  I don't think it should be illegal only because then more people will attempt to do the docking/cropping themselves leading to more serious problems.  I've seen cropping disasters done by an at home job and I've also seen some cropping done by a vet not hold up the way it should.  At the very least people should take responsibility for their actions and have it done correctly.

ORIGINAL: 2 big dogs

Mista Tumnus,
Why are you starting this thread?  Are you tring to start trouble?  That is what you have done.  This subject will always be a debate.  As long as their are people who crop and dock their will be people who don't agree.  That is what makes the world go around. 

 
Maybe the OP was just voicing her opinion and wanting some answers and not necessarily trying to start trouble
 

  When the ears are cropped they are standing all the time and that helps with kepping them dry.  With natural ears (that are floppy) tend to have or be prone to ear problems.  The floppy ears don't allow air to get in the ear to help keep them dry.  If the floppy ears get wet and the moisture stays in the ears that might or will cause ear infections.  Also with floppy ears they are or get dirty easier.  Floppy ears require more attention than cropped ears do I think.  When I got my doberman I wanted him to look like a doberman not a hound dog.  If I wanted a hound dog I would have gotten one.  I got my doberman's ears cropped and when people see him they know from a distance what breed of dog he is.

 
Can someone please supply some statistics on whether natural eared dogs get more ear infections than cropped?  Obviously they are not available for the UK as as the OP states cropping is banned here and has been for some time but I cannot find any vet or institution that indicates that ear infections are more common in the dogs in the UK. 
 
Thanks
 
 

...here we go again [sm=rolleyes.gif]

before this debate turns ugly i'll just say I am for cropping/docking. Its a matter of choice and if I owned a croppable/dockable breed (like a dobe or pittie) i'd crop and dock

i think it is a matter of preference and i have owned breeds in the past that could have cropped ears and i did so.  people have cosmetic surgery all the time.  my vet gave me meds to keep the dog comfortable at home and the dog was put under before the cropping.  i have a horse waiting to be tattooed with eyeliner around his eye.  this is not for cosmetic reasons but it will look better when he is done.  chief is a paint who has a very weepy eye due to no color around his eye and he sunburns easily.  i just want to make him more comfortable

Can someone please supply some statistics on whether natural eared dogs get more ear infections than cropped? Obviously they are not available for the UK as as the OP states cropping is banned here and has been for some time but I cannot find any vet or institution that indicates that ear infections are more common in the dogs in the UK.

Thanks

This is more of a breed specific occurrence.  For example spanles and most poodles are prone to ear infections more then other breeds.  It has more to do with the shape of the ear cannel and the amount of fur that grows in the ear rather then the droopy ears.  These types of dogs are constantly groomed and have the hairs plucked or shaven out of their ears to help reduce the amount of junk that gets stuck in there.  GSDs also have their share of ear problems but this is due to the thick cartilage that makes up most the ear, blood clots are more common in these types of ears then others.  These example are dog who do not have cropped ears yet still have ear problems.  It varies from breed to breed so depending on what breed your talking about your going to get different responses.

ORIGINAL: Xebby

Can someone please supply some statistics on whether natural eared dogs get more ear infections than cropped? Obviously they are not available for the UK as as the OP states cropping is banned here and has been for some time but I cannot find any vet or institution that indicates that ear infections are more common in the dogs in the UK.

Thanks

This is more of a breed specific occurrence.  For example spanles and most poodles are prone to ear infections more then other breeds.  It has more to do with the shape of the ear cannel and the amount of fur that grows in the ear rather then the droopy ears.  These types of dogs are constantly groomed and have the hairs plucked or shaven out of their ears to help reduce the amount of junk that gets stuck in there.  GSDs also have their share of ear problems but this is due to the thick cartilage that makes up most the ear, blood clots are more common in these types of ears then others.  These example are dog who do not have cropped ears yet still have ear problems.  It varies from breed to breed so depending on what breed your talking about your going to get different responses.

 
Thanks for that, I wonder if dobies in the UK are constanty getting ear infections as they are not cropped, would make an interesting study I think. 
 
 

I just thought of one more thing, it#%92s not my opinion but I#%92ve heard this before:  Some people will say that dog#%92s with floppy ears are more resistant to ear infections because the floppy ears protects the inside of the ear and keeps junk out, therefore when cropped, it opens up the ear and allows it to collect the junk that the floppy ear would have protected it from.  Again, I would say it varies from one breed to another and also depends on how the owner handles the situation. 
 
I really don't have much say in this matter because I have little experance with dogs with croped ears.  I think to know how it affect the dog one would have to live with that dog before passing judment.

ORIGINAL: Xebby

I just thought of one more thing, it's not my opinion but I've heard this before:  Some people will say that dog's with floppy ears are more resistant to ear infections because the floppy ears protects the inside of the ear and keeps junk out, therefore when cropped, it opens up the ear and allows it to collect the junk that the floppy ear would have protected it from.  Again, I would say it varies from one breed to another and also depends on how the owner handles the situation. 

I really don't have much say in this matter because I have little experance with dogs with croped ears.  I think to know how it affect the dog one would have to live with that dog before passing judment.

 
Well that kind of makes sense to me, its just that I hear the infection reason a lot for cropping ears and whilst I can understand that maybe cockers or gsd's may have problems I cant understand why dobermans would be prone to have more ear infections than any other breed, so basically wondered if there were any stats to back up that reason for cropping.
 
I wont have the oportunity to live with a cropped dog as Im in UK and its been banned here for a long time.

Its a matter of choice

 
The general public usually agrees that cruelty to animals is not a matter of choice. You may not choose to beat your dog until he is crippled because you don't want to bother with walking him, or choose to starve your dog because you don't want to feed him. More and more people are agreeing that cropping is animal cruelty. It's unpleasant for the poor puppy, and serves no purpose other than human vanity. More than half of the dobes around here have their beautiful natural ears, and they certainly don't seem to suffer from ear infections.

My opinion is that if dogs were meant to have cropped ears/docked tails, they would have been born like that. I think that puppies are born perfect and don't need any "modifications".
I would never do it to a dog of my own, but I don't have a problem with people who do. As long as they take them to a vet to do it. Whoever had Dante when he was a pup docked his tail himself and now Dante has problems. They cut it off flush with his body, not even a nub is left! In the process they also managed to mess up his anal sphincter so now has some poop issues. Poor guy...

Here I go getting myself into another sticky situation.

I am not a fan of cropping ears.  I think the natural look is fine, especially on dobies and danes.  However I will not entertain unpleasant thoughts about those who do crop.  It's a choice.  As long as it is done under anesthesia and performed by a DVM.  I do have problems with those who crop pittie ears into a tight "fighting" crop.  I KNOW what they're up to.

Tail docking I  support whole heartedly in breeds with weak tails, or breeds in which a long tail would be counter productive to their jobs.