can we both be right...or both wrong?

I myself would not want my dog to run free ina  dog park or anywhere for fear of her running off to chase something or to meet a visious dog. The OP has a right to be there and at leadt they did have their dog leashed. I think you ahve the right to not use the leash because they allow you not to, BUT I think you should not let your dog abuse that right and go to strange dogs.

It's really hard to have dogs that bite in NYC.

They are being defensive. Let it go, follow whatever the leash laws are, teach your dog a rock-solid recall and leave the park if/when you see them again.

Lame but typical--which park?

which park?

 
fisher, i can't tell you, in case you or any one else here is a serial killer.

fisher, i can't tell you, in case you or any one else here is a serial killer.

 
[sm=eek.gif][sm=eek.gif]

fisher, i can't tell you, in case you or any one else here is a serial killer

 
 
I love it 

Are we talking "what if"...as in what if something went down? Well I'll assume so and here we go...
 
You'd bear ALL responsibility for your dogs injuries should any result from an altercation with the Poodles or any other leashed dog, aggressive or otherwise. Unless the dog is a known Dangerous Dog and required to be muzzled in public by law decree whatever...you are knowingly putting your dog at risk by not leashing.
 
You are completely 100% allowed to do so however...but don't expect any help on your vet bill...because to use a favorite legal term.."BUT FOR" your (yes legal) decision to not leash...your dog would not have been injured.
 
Further...I'd say they have a good 50/50 case AGAINST you should their dogs be injured...because their dogs were restrained and thus not able to defend themselves (the spin a good attorney would put on it)...nor due to your dogs free state, were the owners in a position to control your dogs approach, end it, without risking injury themselves. It is simply not possible to instigate a fight IMO....when you are tied up. You can talk all the poop you want but if you are physically unable to approach the other party....instead they must approach you...that's on them.
 
That's my input anyhow...they don't need to really tell you to leash your dog...because you don't have to....but they can warn your dog off with all means they have to avoid putting their dogs in a potentially risky situation.
 
To give you another angle...I am over 21 and it is legal for me to order alcohol and drink it, at a bar...BUT that does not somehow abdicate me from the consequences that may result from that drinking, legal tho it may be, nor does it mean others who do not drink, cannot click thier tongues at me and say "rummy" as they walk past. []

 
It all depends on what you mean by a "recognized, but unofficial law."  Does that mean that it's not real.  Above all, the law is the law.  If dogs are allowed off a leash before 9:00 am, then you're right and if they have a problem with this and know that their dogs can't handle being around a loose dog, then they shouldn't take their dogs to the park before 9:00 am.  But if it's not a real law (on paper) then they're right and all dogs should be on leashes to protect gentle dogs AND aggressive one's. 
 
I live in a new apartment where there's a leash law.  The other morning a massive dog AND owner fight broke out next to my apartment window between 3 dogs and 2 women.  Normally, things are really quiet around here.  The lady with 2 aggressive dogs (By agg. I mean that they aren't friendly to other dogs, but not trained killers or anything) brought them out on leashes at 6am in the dark.  Unknowingly to her, another lady had her non-aggressive dog off a leash since it was so early.  The non-aggressive dog ran up to the 2 aggressive dogs and started a huge fight.  Dogs were bit, blood was drawn, people were screaming at each other long after the dog fight was over.  The classic argument was who's at fault, the person who was abiding by the law with Agg. dogs, or the person who had their gentle dog off a leash?  My verdict: if the dogs are supposed to be on leashes, then the off-leash person is at fault for having the loose dog.  As for my dog, she's never had to be on a leash in her whole life, she's under 100% verbal control when she's off of one, but as long as I live on these grounds...she'll have to be on a leash, or else I'm assuming liability. 
 
IMO, you're going to have to clarify the "unofficial part," for there to be a respectable verdict!

Tara,
 
it IS an official unofficial law...the police and parks people have been instructed to allow us to have the dogs run free before 9 a.m....it is not on the books...therefore, there is a law suit against the city by people who don't like the dogs, to either make it official or forget it.
 
the story actually happened...i know from a legal standpoint i would lose...nevertheless, sparky is going to continue his fun...i'll take my chances...he is very good at staying out of trouble, despite his friendliness.
 
my issue was to consider if these people were right in their complaint to me...so now i raise a tough issue...not necessarily legal...but moral:
should people maintain a vicious, powderkeg dog?
does he really belong in a public park...even if on leash?
 
don't get mad at me if you love a difficult dog, and have challenges to try to rehabilitate him, and the very least keep him alive...i'm raising a sincere question...you are entitled to your own answer....i'm not sure what i think.

Dog aggression is part of dogdom, so is leash aggression. It's not really up to you or me to say if those two were actually dog aggressive, leash aggressive, unhinged, or simply a lot of noise and smoke. Obviously there are two of them so they get along with SOME dogs []
 
 Many tiny dogs rage at the end of their leash yet nothing is done much aside from laughing....IMO it really comes down to owner resp. IF you have a dog that doesn't like other dogs then you take steps to prevent issues...hard to do when other folks let their dogs off lead...but you do what you can. Leashing is step one...and it works great for many people...it's a legal responsible remedy.
 
I have a bigger issue with dogs that cannot be contained and due to aggression escape and ravage other pets or people...along with people who think "my dog is only playing' while it kills another dog...stuff like that.
 
If you think about it as them protecting your dog from theirs...it may make you feel better lol. For my part I don't think a law is ever unofficial. It either is a law...or it isn't.

No difficult dogs here, so no offense taken!   Morally, I'd like to respond that I personally wouldn't take on the liability of having an aggressive dog. I know people who rescue them and take on that liability, but I couldn't do it. There's no way to be sure that someone won't get hurt, and I would never want that to happen.  About whether or not someone should have that dog in the park...???...it's kind of like guns.  If they have them under control, they probably have a right to have them (hope I didn't open a major can of worms on that one!)  The city is probably at fault for having such a law - my guess.  As for the legal question, I'd say yes they have a right to have them there, but they should probably think twice about that.  I'm not an advocate for dangerous dogs, I'm just stating my opinion on the issue.  They weren't TECHNICALLY right in their complaint, if you were within the perameters of the law.  Now personally (should you want to know) if someone had their dangerous dog in the park and my innocent dog got attacked...whether I'm right or wrong I would rip them a new one!  But in the end, I would have to go with who's obeying the law.  People in general, have a lot of personal problems, but if you throw a dog in the mix you never know what you're gonna get.  I'd just avoid them and continue to do what's best for you and your dog as long as you're okay with the consequences. 

This is a tough one.

SO first of all I believe that whether you have an aggressive dog or one who is a spook (like my Prudence) you need to know your limitations and the limitations of your dog at all times.   Having a dog who is terrified of strangers and other dogs, I avoid taking Prudence and JJ where there are any dogs off lead or in areas I know that people may have off lead dogs or be unable (or unwilling to control them).  This means I DON#%92T take them to any dog parks and when I want to run them to give them more exercise I break the law and find an enclosed ball field.    

Also JJ is fear aggressive with strangers so I am always aware of strangers coming up to him and I never allow them to.  9 out of 10 times he would be just fine with them and the worst he has ever down is snarl at people (never even tried to bite) but I don#%92t take risks with my dogs or other people. This is part of the responsibility I took on by adopting dogs with issues. I do so because I volunteer at a greyhound rescue and these two have been in multiple households and were unadoptable. To save them from a life in a crate, I chose to not have as much freedom with my dogs as I would like, but to instead try and give them the best possible chance at a happy life.  

Whether your dog is aggressive or has other issues, you need to respect your limitations.  Having just gone to NYC last week and being surprised by how well the dogs were behaved in that city compared to Southern California, I would personally chose NOT to walk in the park before 9:00 a.m. so as to avoid issues with my dogs. It is hard to say how I feel about the “unofficial law” but I do believe that perhaps the owners of those poodles should chose NOT be using central park in the morning. Then if they don#%92t agree with the “unofficial off leash law” they should be one of the ones fighting it.

I think they have every right to take their dogs out as long as they're on leash. However, you have every right to let your dog off if you want to, as well. Given that it's an unofficial law thingy. The way I see it, I know my dog won't approach a vicious dog if she's off lead because she's not suicidal. She can read dog language better than I can, so when she sees a dog straining at the leash and barking viciously at her, she stops and turns around and comes back to me. I don't have to even tell her to because it's pretty obvious to her that she doesn't want to get within range of those dogs.

However, not every dog has been socialised with enough dogs to know these things. If my dog raced up to a dog on leash and got mauled, then that would be my fault because my dog was off leash. Similarly, if, in the far distant future when I have my full grown akita male, he is on leash and an off leash dog charges up to him, picks a fight and gets ripped to pieces, that's not my fault or my responsibililty because my dog was on leash and under control until the other dog tried to commit suicide.

So, yes, you do have to be very aware of your dog's limitations and level of social education. Some dogs have been socialised well but still barge up to strange dogs and get themselves into trouble. But if your dog is sensible around other dogs, I don't see why you should have to keep it on lead.

If this went to the court, hypothetically...

While 9 p.m. to 9 a.m. is considered to be off-leash hour and park rangers won't give you a ticket, legally you should have your dogs on leash at all times other than designated off-leash areas.

Or so I have read in AMNY... []

I don't think either party's "wrong" here though, personally...

I have had dogs run up to mine while mine were on a leash.  I do not like it at all.  I think if a dog is to be allowed off leash in an area other than a dog park, it needs to stay with the owner.  Your dog may be friendly, but you don't know that mine is (which both are, but thats not the point).  You never know!  You also never know if your dog could run off.  I don't care how well trained the dog is.  I will never let my dogs off leash in an unsecured area.  To me, its not worth it.  Overall, I think dogs should be on leash unless they stay with the owner at all times.  I tend to get angry at people when they allow their dogs to run up to mine.  It is irresponsible in my opinion.  Even on leash, I always ask and make people ask before our dogs play or even sniff each other.  You never know the temperment of the other dogs.