Need E-Collar recommendations

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I am so glad you posted this about shock collars.
 
A few months ago we got one for our husky mix and it took my husband this long to stop feeling guilty about buying one.
 
We have four dogs (all rescue) and Buck is the only one we cannot trust when we go hiking. When we go to the dog park he's the only one who has to be on leash because he gets distracted easily and refuses to come when called.
 
We are so afraid he's going to get himself killed either by a car or by a coyote. Yesterday my husband was walking him on a leash and almost had his arm yanked out of his socket because Buck saw another dog across the street and went bounding over to visit him - right in front of a car. No streetsmarts whatsoever!
 
I used to think shock collars were cruel- until the came came when I was in a position of having three choices - inflict minimum pain,  ut him down (there's no way I'd drop him off at animal control or find a new home for him) or let things continue as they were with a 99.9% chance of him either being hit by a car or chased down by a cougar or a bear because he didn't come when called and we couldn't find him in the wilderness.
 
Oh, by the way, we screwed up our courage and my husand tried the shock collar on his arm first. He got the signal all the way up to a 4 before he felt anything. It took a number 7 signal before we saw any reaction from Buck and even then it was only a flick of an ear.
 
Since Buck is not the smartest dog in our pack, we figure it's going to take multiple times before he gets the idea and before we trust him off leash.
 
I never thought I'd even consider using one, but it just goes to show you, never say never.

Does the collar work any different then the E-fence? or is it the same thing?  I want to get the E-fence when we get out own place. I want to be able to play with Sara and have her follow me around the yard like she used to. Yesterday she did good. I took her off her leash and had a bag of treats, we played fetch and tag for a bit then, I gave her a treat and pot her back on her lead, while I finished working the yard.  I want the e-fence so that once she tries to run through the boundary she will stop and not try to visit the other dogs.

I admit that i have not had a chance to read through the whole thread here, but rest assured I will . . . I am interested in seeing what people have to say about this issue.

That said, I own an e-collar . . . and if I recall correctly you were asking for a recommendation on a brand?  I have two suggestions.  The first (and the one I own) is the Sportdog Field Trainer 400 (the whole sportdog line is pretty good).  Its completely waterproof and has a 400 yard range with 5 intesnsity settings and a beep.  It cost about 160 online.  The second recommendation is Tritronics . . . . its a very good brand, but considerably more expensive.

If the only thing you want to use an ecollar for is this one command though, I might suggest contacting some local dog clubs in your area, particularly one with hunters in it.  See if you can borrow one from someone for a short time because they are very expensive.  A friend of mine did that and it worked out great.

ORIGINAL: Pit Bull
I simply stated my opinion on e-collars and offered some advice on what else you could do instead...

 
You didn't state it like an opinion though, you stated it like a fact, which is okay, except you are factually wrong.  Many gun dog owners use shock collars and with great success.

If you're offended, than you should know better. This is a forum, and I believe I did nothing wrong when I suggested that you see a trainer as another option. If you don't welcome people's opinions and suggestions other than what you're looking for, then why are you posting on a forum?

I am taking this comment to mean that you have a bit of experience with forums.  Surely then, you are aware of the appropriateness of reading a forum for awhile before you post.  If you had done that here, you would realize that some members garner more respect than others.  Not that you can't disagree with them, but you might want to do so with a little more tact.  Just a suggestion. 
 
No one here likes me so you can say anything you want to me.  Bring it on and welcome to the fourm.  []

ORIGINAL: angeltrudelle

Does the collar work any different then the E-fence? or is it the same thing?  I want to get the E-fence when we get out own place.

 
 
 
This being my first experience with the Invisible fence, I'm not sure IF there is any difference.  I can tell you that our system came with wire to be buried (along the chain link fence), 2 collars (rechargeable & waterproof), and a remote control.  The remote tunes into each collar, set 1 or 2 for the collar I want to control.  I can adjust the stimulation from 1 to 10, and it has a warning beep button, so I can warn the dog prior to stimulating. 
I used the remote to train the dogs to retreat at the wire boundaries.  So that when they came close to the marker flags, I beeped the collar & shrugged the leash back.  Now, even when I turn the remote off from the collar, the E-fence system remains on.  I cannot use the remote, but if the dog comes close to the marker, the collar beeps.  IF the dog diregards that warning beep and proceeds, then it will get zapped!  BTW, once our dogs hear the beep, they come trotting back towards the house!

They work basically the same, but the e-fence is based on distance to the buried fence and is automatic in that the it happens whenever the dog goes near the buried fence.  An e-collar, for training, only works if you push a button.

We purchased the Tritronics off of e-bay several years ago and they do not make that particular brand anymore.  They have rechargeable batteries which are nice but since we don't use them anymore or rarely, the batteries die over time.  Then when I DO want to use it, I have to make sure and charge them first.  The brand we purchased didn't have an easy way to switch from  the different settings of Tone Only; Tone with beep; and Beep Only.  I never felt comfortable attempting it with the collars on the dogs because I wasnt' sure I wouldn't accidentally zap them.  However, after training with the beep and zap, only the beep is necessary now.

And yes, when we did use them for off-leash play time, they got excited about it because it meant a run through the woods.  I don't think I've put them on the dogs for over a year now though.  []  Haven't had to.

I justed checked it out at the store here and you can buy either the collar or the  whole system. They are both the same price. Now I'm wondering if I should get just the collar. Maybe if I got Sara used to the collar and she got a zap when she tried to leave the yard she would just stop that all together and I would not need to put in an electric fence when we move, I could just continue to use the collar. The bonus being that I could start this now instead of next year.
 
 

Dogtra and Innotek are two of the big names in E-collars, and you won't go wrong with either one.  I researched many collars in my day, and found that the Innotek tranmitters were more compact, and user-friendly.  Most Dogtra transmitters look like small walkie-talkies, where the Inn. Tx could be carried in my pocket or on a lanyard without attracting too much attention.  The antennas on the Dogtra collars also tended to be a bit longer or noticeable on the long range model that I used.
 
At the time I bought my collars, Innotek had a rechargeable waterproof model that was $50 cheaper than the comparable Dogtra, so that made my decision easier.
 
Check out this site (of which I am not affiliated, and does not compete with Dog.com)...
 
[linkhttp://www.gundogsonline.com/Dept.asp?iDeptID=2300&iAID=1010]http://www.gundogsonline.com/Dept.asp?iDeptID=2300&iAID=1010[/link]
 
It's a gundog supply store, but it's got some good information.

I use a TriTronics Sport 50 (notice it around my off-leash dog in my avatar?).  It's an oldie but goody, in some ways.  This version is better than the last go-round, cuz there's a button on the receiver itself to turn the device on/off, rather than the old version where you used the transmitter.  I have had a few folks complain that on occassion, their transmitter and receiver have become "unmarried".  You send it to them, and they fix it for you.  Been a really good company to deal with, from what I understand, but I've never had any trouble with mine.  I have had mine for nearly 3 years and only replaced the transmitter battery once.  As stated, the receiver battery is rechargeable.  If you're planning on using for more than one dog in the future, the Tri Tronics multi-dog e-collars are a good investment.  Juggling more than one transmitter is a pain, otherwise. (Too bad they did away with the Beagler)
I suspect the Sport 60 is better than mine.... maybe its time for an upgrade.  DEF worth the investment, but IMO, should ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS be initiated only with a trained professional in a directive method way like Fred Hassen - No Limitations style.  [linkhttp://sitmeanssit.com/]http://sitmeanssit.com/[/link] gives some extra info for folks who are interested in the method.

I bought an e-collar at the suggestion of a trainer and have used it only for recall at the park. We have a beagle mix from a shelter and she's a wonderful dog and very obedient except when on a scent, and then all the +R and hotdog pieces in the world wouldn't bring her out of the woods.
 
I started with the Sportdog 400 because I live in the city I didn't need the long range (1 mile) of the more expensive models. Along with the price (about $170) I loved the small size of the receiver box on the collar and the fact that it's waterproof. The "stimulation" power ranged from 1-8 and our dog's training level was about a 2, which I tested on my own hand and it was no big deal. Everything was fabulous for a few weeks: I followed the guidance on this link -  [linkhttp://www.loucastle.com/articles.htm]http://www.loucastle.com/articles.htm[/link], and also worked with a trainer.
 
However, when I finally tried it out at the local soccer field, which is dog central for our neighborhood and, unfortunately, surrounded by woods, she blasted off into the woods after squirrels and totally ignored the collar on its highest power! I couldn't believe it. She only weighs 40 pounds and is such a sweet little dog, but she was completely oblivious to the collar (and it's not that she didn't know what was expected of her - this was after about 4 weeks of daily work).
 
I hadn't realized that in addition to a longer range, the more expensive models also have stronger batteries, and our trainer had actually recommended that since our pooch is part hound I get a Dogtra 1500 or higher, but I hadn't wanted to spend the extra $100. Well, for us it was worth it. This collar (Dogtra 1500) goes from 1-100 and I was training her at around 15. During her first (and only) bolt into the woods with the new collar, I had to dial it up to about 35 to get her out, and I'll tell you, she has not set foot in there again. We're now able to go to the park every day off leash, she has a ton of friends, and we're both having a blast. The receiving box on the collar is significantly bigger, which I don't like, but our dog doesn't seem to mind. When the collar comes out she does an ecstatic wiggle dance. I don't even "nick" her - just having the collar on is enough.
 
It was impossible to tire this dog out on leash (and I used to be a marathon runner, so I really did try!) and I was starting to really resent her for having so much energy and being such a HOUND off leash. This collar has saved our relationship.
 
I bought both collars from Cabelas.com because they had a 60 day return policy, which was much more generous than anywhere else.
 
Good luck!
 

Go for the long distance - don't think to yourself, oh, I'm only going to use this thing 100 feet away max so I'll get the 100 foot model. The distances are idealized and the cheapo models lose their effectiveness with even the smallest obstructions like bushes or trees. The one I have (a Tritronics) is a one-mile range and can be used from INSIDE a house for that God Almighty Did It effect. Look for a model where you change the levels on the transmitter, too, and which offers either only momentary or both continuous and momentary stimulation (the cheaper models only offer continuous which is a big no-no for trash breaking applications).

My friend who is an e-collar trainer calls it "bumping". I want to remind myself of the seriousness of the tool, and so I call it "shocking". I do use the things, however, very rarely - for life-or-death situations.

The shock reaches down into the "fight or flight" primitive center of the dog's brain and causes TOTAL EXTINGISHMENT. It's the part of your brain that jerks your hand back when you touch a hot surface. That sounds great but you have to make sure that you hit your dog at the exact moment that the dog can STOP what he is doing voluntarily - in the case of a prey situation, that's BEFORE he launches, while he's still thinking about it. Otherwise you end up with a dog with a very strong DON'T DO THAT message but a fuzzy context because the collar stopped his forward progress, not the "Yay! Bunny!" thoughts. Bad, bad, bad for his confidence.

mrv - getting a dog's attention at 300 yards on stock is a piece of cake - no e-collar required. You build the respect at shorter distances and by the time your dog is out there, you are a finely tuned team and your dog will respond to a whistle blown more insistently or a shout of his name. My hero Jack Knox says there's no problem that happens "out bye" with herding dogs, that can't be fixed "at hand" - meaning long distance problems can always be fixed by going back to the basics. I've seen him put his money where his mouth is on that one, for sure.

I'd be tempted to go there with Strauss, as well, before going to the e-collar - but I know it's sometimes necessary to take emergency action. But consider backing up this emergency training with some serious training on a drop-dead stop at a distance and recall. Good luck!

I have an innotek two-dog unit and love it. So easy to use. I originally bought the thing to save the dogs from being hit by cars while chasing deer. Now they don't chase deer and have 100% recalls. I would strongly recommend you NOT use the old-fashioned "aversion" method of stopping your dog from chasing rabbits, as in, hit the dog with a massive shock when he starts to chase, and instead use the collar to proof his obedience in the presence of rabbits. Try to follow this protocol as well as you can:
[linkhttp://www.loucastle.com/critter.htm]http://www.loucastle.com/critter.htm[/link]
 
Basically you just use the ecollar to proof your dog's obedience to the point where he obeys even in the presence of rabbits.
 
I think the "aversion" method of training is cruel and can backfire-- the dog may not learn what you are trying to teach the dog. For example, he may develop an aversion to the ground he was standing on when shocked, or to running,  or to the car that he was next to, instead of to the rabbit.

Well looks like you have gotten alot of advice so far but I will offer my two cents as well.  The collar is a great tool if use properly I have one that offers tone vibration, nick and continous.  You most likly don't need all that.  The main thing is to make sure the dog understands what it is you want.  I would borrow a bunny in a cage and whenever he shows interest in the bunny correct him.  Then move on to a bunny out of a cage and then a running bunny.  Baby steps are very important and of course only use as much "juice" as nessecary  never make the dog yelp.

I would borrow a bunny in a cage

As a previous bunny owner, I would never, EVER allow that. Rabbits are prone to being frightened to death. They WILL roll over and die if they get startled enough. A drivey dog and a caged prey animal is pretty not-nice.