Fight against puppy mills (here goes sticking my foot in it)

Actually, a few things that you proposed are included in HB606 which is the Ohio bill that goes before the Ohio House of Representatives after the mid-term elections in November.  It deals with how puppy mills, pet stores and byb's keep their dogs' living conditions.  It also provides for heavy licensing fees for puppy mills and pet stores as well as severe penalties if those dogs aren't kept in the conditions outlined.  Frankly, I'm surprised that more people from Ohio aren't getting excited about this legislation given that we are considered the second worst state in the US for the number of puppy mills and the worst in terms of conditions those dogs are kept in.  In another thread I provided access to the bill so that people can look at it as well as access to their senators and representatives so that they can write to them asking them to support the bill.  Our local polititions in Ohio ARE interested in hearing support for this bill.  Here's an excerpt from an email I got from Rep. Jim Carmichael's office in response to a phone call and an email I sent him asking him if he'll support the bill: 
I spoke with Representative Carmichael about our phone conversation and showed him your e-mail.  I discussed with him how it is a problem in his district and the surrounding area.
Representative Carmichael wanted me to let you know that he works well with Representatives Hughes and Webster who are trying to get this bill passed and will work with them on this issue as well.
 
You may not know this because of your geographic location but the majority of puppy millers in my state and Pennsylvania are Amish and I think it does behoove us to get involved on a local level through protest.  These millers have other businesses, mostly involving tourism, and we can make a difference if whatever we're doing has an economic impact.  How many people would spend $2000 on a quilt knowing that that vendor also has 150 breeding dogs stacked 5 cages high in his barn and knew the condition these animals are living in? I think people need to get involved in any way that they can.  Idog members Dyan and Tariq have posted excellent ways to help, starting with Pfizer and Hunte.  Everything in this country revolves around money and if we can make some sort of economic impact on these companies, they just might listen. Christi

A govt agency does administer that and is completely undermanned. The USDA. Breeders, brokers, and sellers of pups are supposed to be USDA licensed and provide good care for their animals. In Missouri, it's a $1,000 fine for operating a puppy mill. If you sell one purebreed for $1,000, you've paid the year's fine. It's just the cost of doing business.

I'm not very educated on this subject, but hey, two cents is two cents isn't it? [] Sorry if any of my ideas are already in the works anywhere, such as the 'master list'.. they're all based only on what I've observed. As I said, not too informed on this, so forgive me butting in like so!

It's in my opinion that the pet store/breeder ratio needs to be lessened. With such fees, for example, HB606 could have that ripple effect to a (small but) certain degree. Less locations of business means greater time & opportunity for proper, thorough inspections and monitoring. There should be central locations within every state that has master list of all registered breeders, such as local ASPCA's for example. Veterinarians should either be able to access these or direct people to this list and should be available through the governments public information outlets. It would make it an easy, one stop shop - not looking for breeders on the internet, newspapers, asking around, etc. - as well as 100% safe and accurate.

Here in Arizona, there's a huge problem with illegal immigrants smuggling dogs over the border and delivering them to these undercover puppy mills. They are personal buys. If people thought - or even knew, for that matter- to ask for documents of licensing/registration and double check to see if they match up with goverment copies & information, their business would not be booming anymore. A lot of people will go for a good buy & run.. even when it comes to puppies that they know are mistreated - but obviously not if the dog they are buying has a 90%+ chance of being sick or dying, inevitably leading to outrageous veterinarian bills.

I don't know about any of you, but not once have I been handed a flier or a pamphlet, seen a government commercial, received in the mail or read ads - billboard, newspaper, posters, radio - with specific warnings about bad breeders/mills. The issue is personal and mainstream.. yet the way that it's being dealt with is not. Choking off their money requires not just fees, fines & penalties to simply discourage them, but choking off the heart of their business - the customers - by educating the masses at the lowest grassroots level possible. Absolutely fundamental to this cause. Without educated people, there can be as little or as many breeders and lists.. none of it will work towards a stable change without every person being in the know, with or without pets.

So that's all my change in cents.. even if some of those coins are already taking place?! [:-] ..now charge!! FREE THE PUPPIES! [:@]

Ron is correct. If half the money used to draft and hype these "bills" were funneled into training and employing MORE employees/inspectors with USDA/APHIS, the problem would be well in hand without additional legistlation.
 
Bottom line is there is a DEMAND for puppies...that is not going to change IMO. The scenario Anya spoke of will INCREASE the more you regulate stateside smaller breeders. The good ones will not be able to pay the fees or feel comfortable raising their dogs according to government reg's...the big ones will be fine with the fees...increase their prices and do just enough to get by....just like they do now.
 
The Ohio bill has some really silly and completely unenforceable things in it...and ALL the usual USDA things that already exist and ARE NOT ENFORCED already...lol! Non porus surfaces, and at least 2 hours a day of human contact...THAT'S what folks supporting bills like this want? Why not require that dogs ONLY be raised indoors with the human family, and kept as companions...NOT livestock, as it should be?

As with drugs, the problem is the demand.
The only way to stop it is to stop people from buying puppies from puppy mills. You can currently buy puppy mill puppies in two ways-- over the internet direct from the mill, or from pet stores. No reputable breeder would ever sell a puppy through a pet store or to an unknown person who just clicked a button on a website.
There's actually a little booklet put out by the american humane society about "how to buy a puppy" hanging up in my work-place cafeteria. It's very explicit about how to avoid buying a pup from a puppy mill. We shut down our local mall pet store by just leaving literature around the place about puppy mills. Totally unorganized, just random concerned individuals acting on their own.

I quite agree that the problem is demand. What I'm worried about is what happens to the puppy mills/BYBs when pet shops are closed down. Do they really just pack it in and shut their mills or breeding operations down because one of their avenues for selling pups are closed? Does it even make it more difficult for them? When you consider how much they invest in their breeding stock and keeping the animals fed enough to keep everything turning over, I find it doubtful that making it slightly harder for them to sell puppies really discourages them at all. They can still sell them on the internet and through the papers.

I agree that education is also a key to loosening their hold on the pet industry. But in my experience, people tend to be more willing to listen if you don't bombard them with how evil something is and instead gently educate them as to what better alternatives they have. I've been taught always to question motives. If you can communicate your motive as trying to help people out with the added bonus of helping dogs, then I think people will be more receptive to what you're saying. I dismiss everything I hear from animal libs out of hand because from my experience the vast majority of what they say is impractical, exaggerrated, downright wrong, and even damaging to other animal or plant species in some cases. I cringe every time I hear animal lovers work themselves up into a passionate tirade about something because I see people shut their ears to it because they don't want to be told rather harshly that they've been doing everything wrong. Education has to be a balanced and well-rounded thing for it to be most effective. Preaching against the ills of buying from pet shops is one thing, but it's not much if it isn't followed up with more information on how to pick a good shelter or breeder.

I know that no reputable breeder would sell to a pet shop. But maybe they SHOULD. I doubt if pet shop animals are going to become a thing of the past anytime soon. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, reputable breeders most especially don't sell to pet shops because they care about where their puppies end up. I don't see why they have to write a puppy off the moment it goes to a pet shop. They're allowed to write in clauses in a sale contract involving puppies, right? Can they write in a clause that insists potential owners contact them and provide them with contact information so they can check up on the pups later and offer support as the pup is growing? It would also be helpful in reducing the dumpage rate of puppies. It's just an idea to compete with the BYBs and puppy mills. If people are educated at the pet store (which can and DOES happen; we have local pet stores with lots of information leaflets about what to expect from the breeds they have on sale) and are given the choice between buying a puppy from a reputable breeder at that pet store or a puppy from a puppy mill, I think they'd choose the registered puppy. It's certainly not perfect or ideal, but perhaps it could help, assuming that pet stores aren't banned from selling live animals at all. Incidentally, I only went into a couple of pet shops when I was recently in the States, but I was a fair bit more alarmed by the fact that one could more or less walk off the street and buy a baby boa constrictor for a hundred bucks, or a couple of lizards for six bucks a pop, than by the kittens the pet store claimed were from a local cat rescue bouncing around in wire cages and playing with the customers.

Mudpuppy, your case just goes to show how important grass roots stuff is. I hope your community now knows where to get their pups from. I'm certainly not saying it's useless, just worried that it's not enough, or even worse, it's poorly timed. I think there has to be a certain amount of co-ordination to avoid just flushing the irresponsible breeders from out in the open and forcing them to merely go somewhere else or find a more insidious way to sell their goods.

Just as an aside, I wanted to point out that we have and still do use dogs for our own selfish purposes, just like livestock. Just because that purpose was more for companionship than supplying us with food and clothing doesn't really change much. I find it difficult to comprehend that people think companion animals are somehow more special or worthy than a cow in a field that provides us with food. I've known some very special cows in the past and they were very companionable and very social.