VET COULD HAVE KILLED MY DOG.

I am sorry this is off topic. But my dog has allergies. He is a cocker spaniel , tri colored. My doc put him on cortisone and when that didn't help they said I needed to do a food trial. I am not against this Idea but I was wondering if anyone had any feedback on Hill' s Rx diet, x/d ultra alllergen free. I'm worried that the v et just sells this food for profit. It sounds great but will it help my dog.
has anyone had experience with this food.

My Aussie is perscribed REVOLUTION made by Pfizer. It is applied topically, once a month to the back of his neck. It is also a flea preventative.

Kraimkitty. Sorry I can't answer your question. If you don't get a reply here I suggest you start a new thread. I know there are many dogs here on allergy diets so you will get some good advice.

Welcome to dog.com

Denise, I use Interceptor.  Safe for herders and yet it's still effective against other parasites too.  Personally I won't use Revolution -- I won't touch it because it's systemic (it's a pesticide that goes into the blood stream and stays there all month).
 
Interceptor is milbemycin -- it's a'cousin' to ivermectin but works differently but it still exits the body in a day. 
 
My other problem with Revolution is that the only way it affects fleas (and minorly ticks) is if the flea bites the dog first.  Revolution sinks thru the skin into the bloodstream so anything it kills has to bite the dog first.
 
Sentinel is Interceptor with a flea component, but all it is, is an egg inhibitor.  That means it's kinda birth control for fleas.  The problem is (and this is MY opinion) if your dog goes anywhere other than your own yard, it's going to get exposed to a trillion other fleas that haven't been exposed to the drug in the Sentinel that inhibits the eggs so you're kinda helping to flea control the world's flea population.  But again -- in order for that part of the drug to be effective the flea has to bite the dog, which in my opinion is a bit dumb.  So I only use the Interceptor and I use Frontline as my choice for flea stuff because it works for me.
 
kramkitty you might want to start another thread.  I'll pm you some info tho. It's a very popular topic.

Thanks Callie for the info. How is Interceptor administered and how often. I will definately talk with my vet about it. What you say makes a lot of sense.

[linkhttp://www.bordercollie.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=001438]http://www.bordercollie.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=001438[/link]
 
Some discussion for you.    I use interceptor & either frontline or K9 Advantix.

You know,,,,, I don't want to get into a conversation where I don't belong,,,BUT my vet and I were discussing (by email) Heartguard and the fact that it is not to be used on certain breeds and he said that is simply NOT TRUE!      I use Interceptor,,so not trying to defend Heartguard...but we just had that conversation a couple of weeks ago,,,wish I still had it saved..I would put it on this thread.

ORIGINAL: dyan

You know,,,,, I don't want to get into a conversation where I don't belong,,,BUT my vet and I were discussing (by email) Heartguard and the fact that it is not to be used on certain breeds and he said that is simply NOT TRUE!      I use Interceptor,,so not trying to defend Heartguard...but we just had that conversation a couple of weeks ago,,,wish I still had it saved..I would put it on this thread.

Wait. What other breeds? I thought it was just collies?

I was going to use it, I REALLY want to use Interceptor, but buying that and frontline can be costly, so I think we're going the Sentinel route.

If you check out the link Laura posted, you'll see that Dyan is partly right.

Collies and some related breeds have a mutant gene which leads to sensitivity to some drugs.  Ivermectin is just one of them, so if you have certain breeds it is worth while to do the simple and inexpensive test that is available.  Plus doing the test will add to the data that is currently available.  Here is a link that takes you to that test and the latest information.  [linkhttp://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts-VCPL/]http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts-VCPL/[/link]

Please note the known affected breeds:

Collie, McNab, Shetland Sheepdog, Australian Shepherd, English Shepherd, Miniature Australian Shepherd, Longhaired Whippet, Old English Sheepdog, and Silken Windhound.

The gene has not been found in Border collies, Welsh collies, Australian cattle dogs, Kelpies, or either type of corgi.  It appears that every instance of this gene is traceable, in fact to a single breeding - [linkhttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5518665]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5518665[/link]

If you are concerned,  have your dog tested - here's the list of problematic drugs - some of them are common and many are administered during emergencies when it's too late to say, "Wait, my dog might MDR1 affected!  Let's send off the test really quick before you give that painkiller. . . "

Drugs that have been documented, or are strongly suspected to cause problems in dogs with the  MDR1 mutation:

• Ivermectin (antiparasitic agent)
• Loperamide (Imodium®; over-the-counter antidiarrheal agent)
• Doxorubicin (anticancer agent)
• Vincristine (anticancer agent)
• Vinblastine (anticancer agent)
• Cyclosporin (immunosuppressive agent)
• Digoxin (heart drug)
• Acepromazine (tranquilizer)
• Butorphanol (pain control)

Interceptor is supposed to be given once a month (I do 45 days) and it's a chewable tablet.  The length of time between doses is based on the amount of time it can take a microfilaria to mature to the 'next step' where you want to stop that maturation from happening. 
 
Sentinel can work fine if your dogs stay 'home'.  It's Interceptor and the old drug "Program" (which has been around for a long time and isn't problematic usually -- ANY drug can be but it's pretty safe). 
 
The argument that the HeartGuard people have put forth for years is that in small enough doses ivermectin is 'safe' for all breeds.  The problem is that at this point they have reduced the dose SO much (so it is "acceptable" for all) that it's not much good at heartworm prevention, and it certainly doesn't do any good for other parasites.
 
However, I'll say this much and shut up ... at one time a LONG time ago, when we were very broke, my old vet told me I could use ivermectin and he helped me 'dose' it for all 3 of my dogs (a cocker, a boxer/pit mix already taking liquid ivermectin as heartworm 'treatment' because her heartworm was SO advanced the immiticide wasn't safe for her) and my old (then 10) sheltie/corgi mix.
 
I carefully dosed it for everbuddy -- this was like 10 years ago when they pretty well thot it WAS *only* collies that were problematic.  And honestly I didn't even know that way back then.  However, I noticed Foxy just plain came up missing that evening -- he hid in the dark back bathroom behind the toilet and we couldn't get him out for love nor kibble.  Finally I realized he was really not feeling well -- light hurt his eyes, sound hurt him, and generally he wanted to be ALONE -- and for all the world, he looked like he had a MASSIVE headache.
 
I called Doc and he told me it sounded like Foxy was having a reaction to ivermectin ... that they did sometimes but not often (Doc was part of the original team that did research and development on ivermectin so he knew a LOT about it).  He advised me to take that dose I'd given this time, and cut it in to 25% of what I'd used (one quarter of the dose) for next month.  That it should protect him and be safe at that dose.
 
Nope.  SAME symptoms only worse.   In fact, I thought I'd lose him that night and literally I was way way below 'dose'.  I was guilt-ridden -- I couldn't believe I'd caused him so much pain.  Thankfully he had no lasting problems. 
 
Ivermectin crosses the semi-permeable brain membrane of the parasite's brain and scrambles the neural responses in the brain so totally the parasite dies.  THAT is how it 'kills' the parasite and not the dog.
 
EXCEPT, in herding dogs. 
 
In herding dogs the ivermectin actually crosses the semi-permeable brain membrane of the DOG and begins to do, in the dog's brain, exactly what it would do to the parasite.  (paraphrased from "Pill Book Guide for Medication for your Dog and Cat" - Dell Ref. 199
 
So yes, the dog feels like it's got the grandaddy of all migraines and worse. 
 
AT that point Interceptor had just come out and was experimental -- but he ordered some and said hopefully it was better but to watch him.  No reaction. 
 
Accordng to my vet a dog can actually become MORE sensitive to ivermectin as time passes.  It's not that it 'lasts' but rather it actually may do some damage that doesn't heal.  That part was just Doc's speculation, but his stand was not to use it at all. 
 
Given that dogs can't tell us if they have a mild headache, I'm not going to risk it. 
 
I can tell you that my holistic vet, who teaches all over the country, found herself infected with Sarcoptic Mange after treating a feral pup at her clinic and halfway across the country on an airplane she discovered she was doing the "itchy scratchy" thing herself and was infected with sarcops (another blood-feasting parasite that ivermectin treats).  So she took ivermectin HERSELF simply because she was on the way to a teaching engagement and had to treat it *now*.
 
She said to me one day "I actually know how the dog feels.  You don't feel 'bad' nor really 'good' -- kinda just 'blah' -- and you feel like you have "bad breath" all thru your whole body.  It passes after about 24 hours when it leaves your body."
 
But that was a reaction in a being not having a 'bad' reaction -- just the general body response to the drug. 
 
At this point I only buy Interceptor even tho I don't have herding dogs.  At one time my yard was exposed to whips and hooks and they ARE in my soil, so it's worth it for me to use the Interceptor and reduce the risk of those.  Ivermectin is NOT a bad drug -- only on herders and a few other breeds.  But I really have a problem with the company trying to make everyone believe it is SO safe, when likely reactive dogs feel like crap even tho it may not technically do them severe harm.  After seeing Foxy's reaction never ever would I expose a herder to ivermectin under ANY circumstances.

Mine get Interceptor because it also controls the whips, hook and round worms.  My vet no longer carries Revolution because several of his clients dogs came down with heartworms while on it. I do not know if it was the med itself of people didn't apply it right.  Also, it is the 2ed leading heartworm preventatvie in reported reactions and deaths according to the FDA.  Only ProHeart6, the 6 month injected heartworm preventative had more deaths/reactionss and it was pulled from the market after only 3 years...which was to late for my 4 year old golden, Hunter and several hundred that died, thousdands with reactions Mine are golden retrievers, but if they were any of the herding group I would be a little worried about Heartgard.

To throw in my two cents---I had little Misty (5 pound toy poodle) on Heartguard Plus.  I started to see a pattern that each month for the 5 days following her Heartguard treatment, she was "off her game."  She would be lethargic, not eat as much and just be generally down in the dumps. 

I shared this with my vet, and he had me change her over to Interceptor.  He thought it may be the pyrantel in the Heartgard that could be bothering her, but didn't want to take any chances by changing her over to just plain Heartgard.  She has taken Interceptor one time now, and she did not have the same problems she had following a Heartguard treatment.  Also, I don't know if it's related, but since we switched her over, she had been eating better and been much more lively and active overall.  I had been struggling to get her above 5 pounds, as she was a bit underweight.  Now, she eats much better and has put on the weight she needs to be healthy.  I have no idea if this is related to the Heartgard treatment, but I am obviously suspicious about it. 

One good thing about the Interceptor is that it's dosage is a bit more specific--Heartgard Plus that she took was for "Dogs up to 25 lbs," and her Interceptor is for dogs 2-10 pounds.  Also, the Interceptor cost 1/2 of what the Heartguard cost. 

Callie, I really respect your information and thank you for sharing it, but I have to mention that in this case it's outdated in one specific. We now know exactly what causes the problem you describe - it's the MDR1 mutation, which is testable. This would have prevented the issue you had with your dog, as any dog whose parentage is unknown, or any dog in the suspect groups, should be tested before the administration of these drugs. It would not have been possible at the time, however, as the gene was identified and the test made available only last year.

The only reason I continue to hammer on this is that there is a problem with these other drugs as well. Ace is prescribed commonly in emergencies, as is "bute", an antiinflammatory and pain killer. Also, there are times when ivermectin is the best way to treat problems and it's a shame to have to use less safe, convenient, and more expensive drugs (treating mites, for instance).

There are oodles of Border collie owners who use the injectable ivermectin for monthly prevention, and have been doing so for years. Now we know why Border collies seem to have missed out on the "four white feet, do not treat" adage. They broke off the collie family tree in the early 1870's, when the first working trials started. Ditto for the other breeds I mentioned - the stock for those breeds was exported before the mutation began to spread through the collie gene pool, apparently.

My favorite is the interceptor.  It's given once monthly and also controls hookworms, roundworms and whipworms.  I like Frontline best for the fleas and ticks.  My dog hasn't had any since I've been using it.