Out-of-control Kid

In those situations I prefer to just remove my dog from the problem. It's not my job to discipline someone else's kid but it is my job to protect my dog, and I think it builds trust when you're able to show your dog you can control a situation like that. My dog is tolerant to the extreme of little kids but even so I try not to let children (I have young sisters) pester him. You can always tell the child "the puppy has to go inside and take a nap now" or something to that effect.

You did EVERYTHING right cheets, you are not at fault here, the parent is.
 
I've had people rush me and Strauss before, I just step in front of him and tell them "You shouldn't run up on strange dogs like that."
 
When I have Ranger with me, it is absolutely imperative that kids don't run up on him...his eyes are starting to go and things are getting fuzzy for him, so now when you approach you have to say his name and touch him on the neck so he knows you're there.  Ranger is also a very sound  dog and is tolerant, but he does not like children like Strauss does, and he's a good deal more likely to bite, especially since he's in pain at times due to arthritis.
 
I've stepped in front of kids and told them no, and the proceeded to try and pet my dogs.  So, I do something that's odd, but quite effective.  I growl at them and tell THEM "LEAVE IT!"  Works with the dogs, works with little kids.  I couldn't give a rat's behind if they think I'm mean or they tell their parents on me, my first duty is to protect my dogs, my second duty is to make sure they don't get bit...again, to protect my dogs (because THEY would be at fault of the snot nosed brat got bit).
 
Get him out around some kids Cheets, socialize him, have them give him cookies, show him they aren't all like that.  Some dogs learn patience some dogs don't, but it sounds like SHippo showed a good deal of restraint and patience before he nipped.  While Shippo should have continued to let you take care of the situation, he was technically in the right to nip at her to protect himself, because you can only turn so many ways to block the kid.
 
Me, at the point, I would have screamed at the kid and wouldn't have cared if it made a scene, because my dog and his social skills are more important to me than a kid's feelings.  But you're kinder than I am, lol

Nicely done, Glenda. Nicely stated. Thanks for speaking up for the silent majority here.
 
And then my sisters (two of them), both with horribly behaved kids, wonder why I don't have any.
 
Nicely done. What's happened to children learning self control these days? After all, they're the ones who will be fending for themselves in the big world someday. (My dogs never will.) I don't understand what has happened to society lately but I'm growing weary of kids who break boundaries all the time just because they want what they want--when they want it.
 
It scares me.

ORIGINAL: k9therapist

No offense, but from the sounds of things, you caused the bite. 

Your reaction to the child escalated the dogs reaction and things got worse.  You convinced your dog he should be afraid. 

When socializing your dog with the "well behaved' kids, respond with confidence and so will your dog.

So do you think I should have just stood there like the kid's mother and gone "no, honey" while this insane kid chased my corgi around and poked his eyes out and smacked him in the face, just so I wouldn't have to raise my voice? I'm sorry, but frankly, I think that's BS. I will protect my dog. I didn't raise my voice at first, but when the kid kept it up, she really gave me no choice. Also, I WAS walking home, trying to end this experience for Shippo. The stupid kid followed me. In the presence of NORMAL, SANE, WELL-BEHAVED kids, I do not have to raise my voice. Kids ask me if they can pet my other dog, Eevee, all the time and I can quite confidently tell and show them how to do it right. >u.u< But this kid had a screw loose, and her mother was oblivious.

What really sucks is that he's going through a fear stage right now. I really do need to find some well-behaved kids to pet him and give him treats etc. >-.-<

Do you have some neighbors with kids who you are friendly with? Maybe you can bring Shippo here to meet my neighbor's little boy. He's 3, and he's great at meeting dogs. Everytime he sees Max, he asks his mom if he can say hi to him, and then they ask me. His mom always reminds him to let Max smell his hand first, even though Max knows him well. Even though he's Max's favorite kid, i'm sure he wouldn't mind sharing him with Shippo if you can't find any there. 

I don't know, I don't want to be the big Bratty Kid Apologist, but three-year-olds don't have the greatest impulse control nor the greatest motor skills... because they're three years old. This would be like getting PO'd at a 3 mo old puppy for nipping. I'm starting to feel more and more like a huge softy in my not-old age... I don't like getting angry at kids for being kids anymore than I like getting angry at dogs for being dogs.
 
I do think it's important to protect your dog and for dogs, especially puppies, to have positive experiences with humans and other animals. However, part of good socialization and training is helping your dog maintain composure even in these hairier situations, not only in 100% positive, bunnies-and-rainbows scenarios. If you always maintain rigid control over the dog's environment you're not doing much to train him to accept new, strange, or startling stimuli. Of course if we're talking about a dog with already-established temperament problems, that's a different story. But loud children are something most dogs are going to run into in life... you don't have control over the environment all the time, but hopefully you do have some control over your dog's behavior and also his body (meaning you can physically remove him if you need to).

I am not implying that the mother and child were in the right in any way.  They were obviously not.
 
I think you set your dog up.  There is a menacing three year old coming towards your dog and he panics.  He goes behind you for safety, and you start moving away.  This is in essence demonstrating to the dog that it is appropraite to be afraid in this situation, and that you do not have control of the situation.  The dog has two options, fight or flight.  He is tethered to you so that rules out flight....what's left...the dog steps up takes control of the situation and from his perspective solves a problem his pack leader could not.
 

So do you think I should have just stood there like the kid's mother and gone "no, honey" while this insane kid chased my corgi around and poked his eyes out and smacked him in the face, just so I wouldn't have to raise my voice?

 
Nope, I think you should have jerked that kid up in the air by her arm and handed the little brat back to her mother.  I would then let the mother know that I just prevented her daughter from being bitten by my dog. 
 
 

I will protect my dog.

 
Part of protecting the dog is taking cotrol of situations he can not handle.  I know you tried to control it, but bottom line is you didn't.
 
ANYTIME our dogs bite someone, we always have to take some responsisblity. 
 

I agree that it is the parents job to teach their children proper manners when dealing with any matter. My daughter will not touch a dog without me asking if it is okay first. Some parents are ignorant to this. I have had many adults and children come up to Sara with out asking. Sara is fine but I still do not like it when they do not ask first.
 
It's like a stranger coming and picking up your child. I do not like when someone in the grocery store comments on my daughters beautiful hair. Some people are okay but some will even touch it. I actually had a woman ask me in Wal-mart if she could pick up my daughter when she was an infant. I said no and tried to move the stroller away and she actually asked me "why Not?"  DUH
 
This however I do not agree with

Nope, I think you should have jerked that kid up in the air by her arm and handed the little brat back to her mother

 
Because I'll tell ya,  you land a hand on my kid (her fault my fault or not) and I just might have to pick you up by the arm.  Some kids know no better, some kids do not listen to their own parents at times. THEY ARE CHILDREN. They are not expected to know how to handle all situations. They do not think that the cute little doggie will bite their face off.  You need to say to the parent "Please do not let your child touch the dog, she is un easy around children" Do not be silent about it and try to get the message through to the kid.

Let me be clear.  I do NOT blame the child in this situation.  Yep, she's only 3 years old and not a mini adult.  I do 100% blame the Mother for her lax attitude and lack of intervention.
 
I would have PICKED the child up, not jerked her up by the arm, and deposited her with mommy who couldn't have cared less what the child was doing.

After reading all the posts and the various laying of blame, I'm right there with Glenda on this one.  Common sense:  Parents control your child.  Dog owners control your dogs.

The parent was doing nothing to control the child.  The child is chasing after a dog.  The dog is obviously uncomfortable, parent does nothing to protect child or remove child from potential danger.  Fault:  Parent.

Why do you think that children under 10 recieve the majority of dog bites?  Children do not have, as stated previously, impulse control.  Parents are the "impulse control" of the child. 

The dog owner/handler was trying to extricate the dog from a potentially bad situation.  The blame cannot lie upon the dog, who is in a situation that he cannot control.  In fact by removing the dog from that particular situation, the owner is doing everything correct.

I'd also like to reiterate what was said earlier: You do NOT touch anyone else's child.  In these days and times you could be accused of abuse, attempted kidnapping and a myriad of other crimes, all just for touching a child.

Well, it sounds like things happened pretty fast. And they can. And we can stand there, wondering if/when the parent will show up and fix all of that. Sometimes picking up a dog in a quick hurry can bring on a snap, too.
 
I'm sorry it all happened. And, true enough, Jones (and Glenda), I know how kids can be. I love my nieces and nephews, but they are also beyond a handful. I actually have 1 sister who works with her kids A LOT and when I ask them to do something, guess what? They do it.
 
But my other two sisters? No way. No way. Their kids are brats--be it at 3 or at 6. They really are. They eat on other diners plates at restaurants! They sit on other people's laps--people they don't even know! I'm not kidding. And I posted that earlier but there was a glitch and I had to start over and couldn't make myself do that (start over).
 
I'm sorry, but some kids can ruin perceptions for a lot of people.

Anyway, like I said, I've actually never had to deal with a kid like that before. Shippo is actually okay around my 1-year-old baby brother, and since he is part of my family, I CAN discipline him without being slapped with a lawsuit for touching him. That is something I am afraid of. I did not know this girl or her mother. When Shippo hid, I did not walk away immediately as somebody above said, I just told the kid to stop. But when the kid did NOT stop, and nothing else worked, I turned toward the house and began to leave.

Shippo is STILL getting used to children. I'm not going to try and THROW him into situations like that for "training" before he has come to learn that children are okay (although in this situation, I didn't have a choice, even when I TRIED to leave). Forcing him to just deal with crazy kids like that could traumatize him for life - especially if he's going through a fear stage! It can result in another bite.

So I AM going to find some well-behaved kids to work with FIRST. If it takes "bunnies-and-rainbows scenarios" to socialize Shippo and keep him from BITING PEOPLE, then by God, I'm going to use them. >O.o<

Anyway, I unfortunately don't know any of the neighbors and the only ones with kids just moved away. There was actually a kid at the dog park the other day who was remarkably polite and Shippo loved him, but kids don't show up at dog parks often... In fact, now that I think about it, most of his run-ins with kids have been entirely free of problems. The reason I ranted about this is because I am just afraid of him becoming scared of children now because of yesterday's experience, because of the fear stage and everything.

Nope, I think you should have jerked that kid up in the air by her arm and handed the little brat back to her mother. I would then let the mother know that I just prevented her daughter from being bitten by my dog.

That's nice. Pop the kid's arm out of the socket. Get your butt sued off. Look like a horrible person in front of everyone... Yeah. That's not exactly the right way to go.

I probably would have picked the child up, walked over to her mother, and said something smart. I've dealt with kids half-attacking my dogs, before, and I've been pretty mean to them. It's better than being bitten. I've had a toddler come running over, and throw his arms around Emma, who completely froze, and looked to ME (yay, Em!) for guidance. His mother got an earful.

I think you did everything right. I don't think you could have done anything differently, aside from possibly grabbing the child, instead of the dog (which you didn't think of, so...).  I hope that you find some nice kids to socialize Shippo with, and he isn't even phased by this rude kid's behavior.

I don't think it's fair to blame the baby. She's only 3 years old and doesn't know better. The mother is the one who's at fault. She should be keeping a proper eye on her little one and she should know better than to let her baby menace a dog. She's foolish to allow her baby to bother a strange dog like that. She doesn't know if the dog would take a chunk out of the baby's face.
 
With that said, I don't see what Astaracheetah(forgive me for not knowing your real name []) did wrong. She kept an eye on her dog and did what she could to keep the baby away from her dog. She's responsible for her dog. She's not responsible for anyone's children. She took responsibility for her dog. Unfortunately, the mother didn't take responsibility for her child.

ORIGINAL: astaracheetah
What the heck do you tell a parent whose kid won't leave your dog alone? I've never had to deal with this before. >-.-<

something along the lines of "hey @ss wipe! leash your f---ing kid!"

some people are too dumb for subtlties.[:@]