Dog Community

GSD help needed!

Posted : 8/17/2006 9:15:16 PM

We have had Zeke at our "in home" shelter for 4 days now.He is a huge 3yrold longhaired GSD.His owner gave him up due to moving.He was also trying to find someone to take his 9 year old aggressive GSD but we couldnt take him as we have kids.Zeke was born at his former home and has never been away from them.He is a very sweet boy.Loves people and kids.Doesnt even bark at strangers.Of course right now i guess we are all strangers.He seems very submissive and is frightened of the other dogs.Even the tiny ones.He does bark and snap at them so we have been keeping them seperated and introducing them slowly with him wearing a muzzle.He is getting better.
He seems to preferr men.He whines when my SO leaves for work and follows him around when hes home.He even broke our fence trying to get out and follow him.He got out and met him at the car.He tore through the fence separating welded metal from metal! The problem is he isnt here very much.I am the primary caregiver and i need him to listen to me.He will listen to my SO but rarely to me.He also has NEVER been on a leash! His owner said he didnt need one.Now that i do it is proving very dificult! He wont walk at all on it! He will panic and try to back out of it.If i take it off him he will follow me fine with out it but this isnt somethingi can do outsideof my own yard and any potential adopters will need him on a leash.How can i teach him to use one? Another problem treats are no good for training with this boy.You can wave a steak in front of him and he will turn his nose up at it! I have never seen a dog so unmotivated by food! He hasnt been eating much.His previous owner said he wont eat anything but gravy train.I wont even allow that food in the house as i have a rottie with severe food allergys and he would find it very tempting.He has only eaten about 3 cups of food a day and thats scattered through the day.He had severe diarhea last night but it may be because i de-wormed him or stress and anxiety.I withheld his food for today andgave him only a small snack of turkey and rice at dinner time.He ate the turkey with about the same enthusiasm an a kid eating spinach but atleast he ate it!.
Sorry for the long post but any advice on training him,giving him a job to keep him busy ( doesnt even seem to know what to do with a bone) and managing his fear agression with dogs.He is a very sweet boy.My SO fell in love! We brushed enough hair off to knit a sweater.He needs a bath but wont fit in my bathroom.
I would posta pic but it seems that someone ate the cord to my camera again.

Lori Haglund

Posted : 8/17/2006 9:36:55 PM

Is a GSD a German Shepard? Sorry, but I'm not very good with all of these acronyms. As for the leash problem, it will take a lot of patience to train him. He is still young and trainable. It may also be complicated because he is scared and confused because he is not with his family anymore. Just continue to give him a lot of love and give him time to learn to trust you fully. Just like with a puppy that fights the leash, he will eventually learn to walk on a leash. Try just hooking the leash on him and letting the leash go so he can walk around with it and learn that it wont hurt him. After he has learned that, try walking around the house or yard while holding it. He will learn. As for the food, again he is probably just confused and knows the food out is not his typical food. Were you able to find out what kind of reward was used with him before? Many dogs dont get food treats for a reward. Maybe he prefers a kong or a toy. There must be something to motivate him. Whatever the case, just be patient, and know he is scared and confused why he is not at the home he has only known. Lots of love from you and your SO will fix that. Good luck, and keep us posted.

nyiceprincess

Posted : 8/17/2006 9:44:22 PM

The only treats he had were some treats called marrow bones that he doesnt seem to like and some beef flavored raw hides.I dont thnk he was given any treats as rewards because he hasnt really been given any training.he will sit,reluctantly after repeated asking and he will come to my SO when asked but thats about it.His only joy seems to be playing fetch! He only brings the ball back about half the time but gets very excited when he sees it! He loves when you bounce it hard on the ground and it flies up so he can catch it! I dont know if this can be used as a reward but its something.Otherwise for now we are just using lots of Good Boy! And petting.He really likes that too! He seems eager to please but easily distracted,understandably as he isnt used to his surroundings quite yet.

nyiceprincess

Posted : 8/17/2006 9:45:14 PM

Sorry i forgot,GSD is a German Shepard!

Lori Haglund

Posted : 8/17/2006 9:56:06 PM

Absolutely use that as a reward. With our military k9 dogs, their reward is getting to chew on a kong. i never thought of that as being a reward, but you should see how hard they work to get to chew on it if only for 30 seconds! Anything that they get excited about like that is something that you can use to motivate them. Also, whenever you use this as a reward, also highly praise him. He will learn to associate the two together and then eventually you will not need to use the "playing fetch" as a reward every time. You can just use the praise some of the time, and he will get the same happiness from it. Make sure, also, that you dont allow him to dominate you. He must learn that he needs to obey you, as well as your significant other. Just always let him know he will have unconditional love along with any strictness.

Xeph

Posted : 8/17/2006 11:33:45 PM

What I would try is getting him a tug toy, and see if he likes to play tuggy. Lots of times toys are a bigger motivator than food.

The GSD is a fiercely loyal and intelligent dog that require a fair but firm leader. It's all about structure with them. The breed is a working breed, and thus, should want to work. Find something that trips his trigger. Tuggy, fetch, jogging, SOMETHING.

As for the leash issue, attach it to him and walk around the house as usual. Let him follow you and reward him intermittently for dragging the leash around. Every now and then just pick the leash up, hold it, say "Good boy!" and treat him.

As for the food issue, try buying one of those Iams Savory Sauces, or Vita Gravy. That may stimulate his appetite.

Also, is the dog trained in english? Seems a silly question, but there are people like me who train their Shepherds in German :-)

nyiceprincess

Posted : 8/17/2006 11:52:45 PM

I can clearly see the loyalty thing but unfortunately his loyalty is to the person who is never at home! I just hope that when i start working with him he will recognize me as a leader as well.I wanted to give him a few days to get used to the place before really getting into it and he is haveing the stomach upset issues as well.
He has been walking around with the leash on and he doesnt mind that atall.Its when you pick it up that he tries to get out of his collar.I felt bad for him having to practically drag him with it to get him here but we didnt really have a choice at the time.Same issue with having to basically "force" him to be with other dogs.At first we had to put him in a small outdoor kennel while the other dogs came out to play.It seemed to help him get used to them being around.He realxed after the first day and can now be near them without totally freaking him out but he still keeps his distance.We still have to put the dominant Chihuahua away when he comes out to play.He is terrified of him for some reason!
As for the language i cant be sure but the previous owners didnt mention anything.When my SO says Zeke come! He does.And after i say sit 3 times he will.We are also working on getting him used to sleeping in a crate.A very large crate! He settles quickly once hes in there but he wont go in for me.The only way i can get him into the outdoor kennel is to go in first and he will follow me,then i slip out and close the gate quickly.He spends most of his time in there trying to get out (and he does,fairly quickly).Another reason i hope he gets used to the other dogs quickly.He is such a sweet boy! But its harder to find homes for big dogs especially ones that some feel are "scary" It would be nice to find him a nice home where he can be an only child but in the meantime i want to work on his training as much as possible.I see alot of potential in him.

Xeph

Posted : 8/18/2006 12:24:24 AM

Well, first thing you need to do is quit sa ying Sit over and over! You say sit, dog puts his butt down. Doesn't have to like it, just has to do it.

If he's not food motivated, try using a ball or toy to lure him into a sit And then reward him with said toy. Quit trying to trick him into a kennel as well. All it'll do is drive a bigger wedge between you two. GSDs catch on very quickly to trickery, and if they realize you've tricked them before, why should they trust you? You could trick them into something unpleasant again.

What I would do is use a target in the case of Zeke. Put a yogurt lid or something down in the kennel, towards the back (Something visble), and put a piece of food on it. Something like lunch meat, or try some cheese. Some dogs LOVE cheese. If he goes in there, even to investigate, give him tons and tons of praise! DO NOT close the door behind him, just throw a big part because he bothered to go IN.

It's all a process...and a slow one at that. Be patient, he sounds like a good enough dog that he'll come around

nyiceprincess

Posted : 8/18/2006 12:27:51 AM

Just wanted to add ,his diarhea is very severe.Should i buy a bag of that gravy train crap and switch him slowly?He was eating it for 3 years. His system seems to be very sensitive and it seems like maybe he has too much going on all at once.I just had to take him out and clean out his crate again.He wont go while he is in the outdoor kennel that is 6x6ft but he will go in the crate.It must be very difficult.it is 42in long so its plenty long enough but its only 36in high so he cant fully stand up.He doesnt give any warning either no barking or whining to go out.It is also some of the most foul smelling stuff i have ever smelled.Enough to make me gag and almost vomit.Im not sure if that is a bad sign but its worsethan anything i have ever experienced in a lifetime of dog exposure.

mrv

Posted : 8/18/2006 6:32:26 AM

You are forgetting a major tool in the training kit. Distance. Do any work with dog at a distance he is able to focus on you not the other dog. Working on sidewalks on the other side of the street. is one option. You need to find the critical distances. Set him up to find that space. Essentially walk toward a safely confined dog (held by someone in control of the dog, tied to a secure object or behind a secure barrier). Walk toward the barrier and look for the signs that he is getting more aggitated or fearful. Slowly back away until he is calmer. Now do some hand feeding, pet him after a sit, do some walking to work in leash manners (TAG is a great exercise Leslie Nelson Tails U Win). When he has been calm and controlled at that distance for 8 of 10 practice sessions, take two steps closer and repeat. He may never really like other dogs he does not know well, but he can learn to control his behavior using this type of approach. Who ever eventually adopts this dog will need to put in the same kind of time and training if they want a dog who is social. Keep that in mind when interviewing.

Diet and the poops. Go to a pharmacy. Ask for the active lactobacillus culture (refrigerated). Give one tablet before each meal. Use up to two weeks. Take a sample to the vet to rule out worms or other parasites. If it does not improve in that two weeks, get thee to a vet. I would not switch back to the low value food, I would use the lactobacillus.

nyiceprincess

Posted : 8/18/2006 10:57:01 AM

We already give the probiotics to all of our dogs as well as prozyme.He has not improved any today.I did de-worm him when he arrived.I havent seen any in his poop but it may have helped cause some of the diarhea.
Distance here is a problem.Our shelter is in our home.The dogs are not kenneled.We have one fenced in yard,no seperate areas except for the small kennel.We do work with him alone with the dogs inside.We then bring out 1 dog for him to interact with and he will go right up to the other dog but any sudden movements scare him.Taking him out of the fenced yard is not an option until ha is able to walk on a leash.
He is still improving on his social skills with the other dogs.It may not be an ideal situation but something is working.
His reaction to the other dogs is almost curiosity,as if he has just never seen other dogs besides the one he grew up with and isnt sure what they are.Sometimes his tail is wagging away and he just looks like he wants to play.
My sister brought me some of her home canned pumpkin.I have heard that it might help his stomach.How much would i give him? If he would eat it at all.

CMarshall

Posted : 8/18/2006 11:37:52 AM

PM Glenda she Fosters GSD's [

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nyiceprincess

Posted : 8/18/2006 12:10:29 PM

Just did,i dont know why i didnt think of that myself.Thanks everyone so far for the help.

Pam

Posted : 8/18/2006 4:03:55 PM

Give 1 human ImmodiumAD pill for diaherra.

nyiceprincess

Posted : 8/18/2006 11:10:49 PM

Got him to take a pill tonight,we wil see if it helps.He hasnt eaten any food in 2 days.He is still drinking but doesnt want anything to do with his food.I did get him ta take a few pieces of Turkey.He did VERY good with the other dogs today.I think hes depressed missing his old home and people.Its so sad.