The "Wolf Dog" Issue

I give up, you cant tell me you never lauged when someone fell, you never checkled when someone got an unexpected shock, whatever I give up. for whats it worth I have been on many sites, I am not new to message boards, this one though? its too full with people I dont get, its not fun, and well. by.

Yes, I have laughed when someone took a tumble.  That's my reaction to a non emergent accident.  My husband in particular falls in slow motion and is a hoot as he is in the process.
 
I don't laugh at deliberately causing someone or something else pain, be it from a shock collar or a mousetrap on their poor little tongues.  So while I can TRY to understand the way you choose to train, I don't understand why you find it humorous to HURT this poor dog.

Jean, Glenda...thanks.  I'm sorry, I was a little wound up there lol.  And yes, Glenda, I do realise why you didn't post about either of those.  I know I sounded snappy, but it wasn't aimed at you, I was just frustrated in general.  Thanks for being understanding.
 
Kate

You can be frustrated with me...I happen to have been able to experience life in the deep south with VERY poverty stricken people...people who would live off of food that none of us could even imagine eating because they had to eat what was available. The homes they lived in I wouldn't even use for storage. It didn't make them any less of a person but it sure made them different. Luckily for me I have experienced this and have a VERY open mind as to cultures and the (excuse me for this very rude remark) uneducated/ignorant person who has lived in this type of up bringing..it really doesn't make them less of a person just uneducated to some of the more fortunate. 
 
 No, it does not excuse for abuse, I would never imply it does. But what some people feel is unacceptable others have lived with all their lives because that is what they have learned and it is "normal" for them although unacceptable for us.

  Well,i became personaly involved in the wolfdog debate about 2 years ago,and have been studing this topic ever since.

 I also have been fortunate enough to meet in person owners of WD's and pure wolf rescues.I can also tell you that these people are the most down to earth people who do not use their dogs as status symbols.on the contrary,they have given up some things,and keep the dogs identity a secret for fear of losing them to the
death chamber.

 My belief is that wolfdogs should not be bred and sold to people any more than any other large dog breeds should,when bieng adapted to people who dont understand a particular breed.Of course there are scum of the earth breeders out for a buck,who dont care about the dog they sell,and the new owners who have not clue one as to how to raise them.

 how many huskies do you see in your local pound? why are they there?because people dont realize they need all the excersize they do,and are sent packing when the dog misbehaves or acts out? this is only one breed example..there are many more.

  As for wolfdogs,i do beleive that if your not fully educated in raising one,and dont care to be,then you will have trouble,which will only come back as a negative toward the wd's in general.

  Look at the dogs who have gotten bad raps over the past 20 years,and ask yourself why.Pits,rotties,GSD's ets...

 these WD's are smart,and  of course can vary in temperment and intelligence like any other dog.Ours is highly food motivated,and this makes him easier to train.Again,keeping your WD(or any type of dog)out of trouble is the responsibility of the owners.Through mental and physical stimulation,i personally believe
that any dog can be trained and be kept happy and safe from harm or harming.

 Should wolves and dogs be cross bred to make wolf dogs as pets?

 my answer is,only by experienced breeders who will make sure they go to the right families.If you say that you cant regualte the breeders,and therefore you should make them illegal everywhere,then you should also condemn all the other large breed dogs with the potential of causing harm.It is the OWNERS and BREEDERS people,and not the breed that we ought to be talking about..

 
 

interesting topic - I also am one who only likes to think of wolves as in the wild! especially considering the limited gene pools that are remaining in our country. However, the problem of already existing "pet-wolves" and hybrids is a tough one. There is a place about 20 minutes north of where I live that I believe takes in (or has taken, I dont know that they currently are taking on more) captive wolves which now live together as a pack in a large enclosure. here is their address:
http://wolfkeep.com/

What do you guys think of places like this? There is a place similar in Oregon, although their pack has more wolf/dog crosses whereas wolfkeep only has pure wolves, although several different kinds.

I'm sorry, I don't agree that it's ok to deliberately breed wolf dogs.  Yes, the ones that exist certainly need special homes, but it's just wrong to put a wild animal into captivity.  Should we breed elk to cows?  What would be the purpose?  And what is the purpose of on purposely breeding dogs to wolves?
 
A man lost his life in a standoff with police in my area last year.  DNR only wanted to tag the newer additions to his "kennel" of wolves and wolf dogs.  With the man dead, most of the hybrids and the wolves had to be destroyed, even tho wolves are a protected species.  It wasn't safe for the wolves or humans to release them to the wild and I believe too few "homes" were available for all of them.  So what this guy considered a labor of love ended his life and many of the wolves lives that he lost his for.  Yes, he was the extreme, but, again, I have to ask, why do wild animals belong in our homes?

In essence, she had all the traits and behaviors to survive in the wild, which runs counter (mostly) to living with humans.
 

 Dont get me wrong,I belive that the percentage of people who SHOULD actually have one of these dogs in their home is very low compared to other breeds.

 I myself would never buy a puppy and only have one as a rescue.

 As for why you might want one in your home?Loyalty,intelligence,companionship,just like any other dog.As i said before,with patience and determination,these can be great dogs..I have seen this with my own eyes at the homes of others who have 1 or more dogs living in a household.

  Breeding dogs to wolves is nothing new,and I believe there is a strong possibility the GSD's  have some wolf in them dating back about 100 years or so..If so,there must have been a few traits that people were looking to put into these dogs.

  Again,breeding these pups should be left to people who know what they are doing,and sent to homes with the time,space,and diligence of training.

 Those who are dead set against the breeding of these dogs will not be swayed in most cases.My last argument goes back to responsible breeding and adaption.If it were a perfect world,and all breeders were responsible,there would be no need for shelters.

 

I certainly understand the attraction to wolves and hybrids - they are beautiful.  But it's far from a perfect world and the number of these animals stradding the wild and domestic worlds and not easily existing in either breaks my heart.  I was recently in Black Rock, NC, and while I did not visit Full Moon Farm, I did make a donation at a local pet product store.
 
[linkhttp://www.fullmoonfarm.org/]http://www.fullmoonfarm.org/[/link]
 
I'm thrilled that there are people who commit to rescue, such as your friends, Mhaddog and that beautiful coy-dogs like Sofia and Athena found the right owners, but I can't sympathize with deliberate breeding in this very imperfect world.
 
On a lighter note, we were at the local dog park when a guy showed up with two gigantic labbish looking mixes.  I seriously have never seen a dog as ridiculously overweight as the black one - he looked more like a bull then a dog.  I made some introductory comment - curiosity about the mix if known.  I was floored and unable to respond when he told me it was a wolf dog hybrid.  In private, DH snorted to me we should have asked if he wasn't mistaken and his dog was more likely a bear-dog cross!  I suppose it could be a wolf dog mix, but I've never seen another with those sorts of dimensions!!! 

Quote:
 I'm thrilled that there are people who commit to rescue, such as your friends, Mhaddog and that beautiful coy-dogs like Sofia and Athena found the right owners, but I can't sympathize with deliberate breeding in this very imperfect world. ---------------------
 
I agree with this statement. When I posted yesterday what I should have said was something similar to this. I was really upset after reading that a puppy's tongue was caught in a mousetrap. My post was a bit harsh, and I hope I did not offend anyone.
 

 

that's ok, it was a harsh image. Mousetraps have actually been advocated by many folks as a "humane" way to keep dogs off the couch and so on. You can buy "snappers" that make the noise without the risk of getting the dog caught in the trap from certain pet stores.

I guess ya'll missed the laughing about using a shock collar.........

I didn't miss a thing. We need a mouth zipped smiley.

Ain't THAT the truth!!