Horse people-----i need help

ORIGINAL: DPU
I know nothing about horses, but with my new dogs they have about a month to find their place and comfort zone in my home.

 
A horse ain't a dog.  Here is a horse:
 
[sm=beatdeadhorse.gif]
 
LOL.  I crack me up.
 
 

Hunterwayit,  I like your advise, very humane, but why is it necessary to strike the rump?

I like the PVC idea too.

ORIGINAL: probe1957

We have horses but I don't know a damn thing about them.

Sounds like we are equal in knowledge about horses but I would never advise unless I have experience.  Since I have experience with large breed dogs and the OP has a fear in trying to build a relationship, the kind of animal doesn't matter.  IMHO, the issue is more with Angeltrudde than with Brownie.  Got another animal cruelty icon?

Isn't a mini about the size of a german shepherd?  We aren't talking a full sized pony are we?  The whapping and beating suggestions do bother me, but then it's been many years since I owned a horse.

Angel if possible can you have the trainer/friend teach you and family members how to
#1- back the horse with and without a lead.
#2 - yield the hindquarters with and without a lead.

These 2 exercises would go a long way in helping you/family handle the horse safely. And help gain some respect from the horse. Him turning his butt to you is disrespect.
Do you have access to RFD-TV?

 
I agree! The horse needs to learn to respect you, and by doing groundwork (backing, yielding the hindquarters), he will start to give it to you.
 
Horses are very different than dogs. I wouldn't chalk this behaviour up to being in a new situation; he just doesn't see you as any sort of authority figure.

ORIGINAL: DPU
 IMHO, the issue is more with Angeltrudde than with Brownie. 

 
The horse tries to kick her and it is HER issue?  Interesting perspective.
 

Got another animal cruelty icon?

 
I did have one of a prairie dog getting shot.  I will see if I can find it for you.

Wow. Now, I know NOTHING about horses. NOT. ONE. THING. Heck, I didn't even know that horses bite people! That was new information to me. I knew they could kick and that it could do SERIOUS damage, but wow, they bite, too???

It's so weird that we would (well, MOST of us, anyway) never dream of smacking our dogs with anything, but people use that method to train a horse. I didn't know that.

So, it's totally acceptable and most likely needed, to whip the snot out of a horse when they act up?
I never would have thought about it before.

ORIGINAL: probe1957

The horse tries to kick her and it is HER issue?  Interesting perspective.

 
You stated that you were afraidy cat of horses and that state of mind gives you only one interpretation of the horse's behavior, a selfish perspective.  Others here have stated the horse will be able to read the fear and take advantage it.  Others have advised to practice handling on another horse and also let others handle this horse until courage is built.
 
Oh, thank you for acknowledging the icon represents animal cruelty and comparing it to another animal cruelty icon.  Look forward to seeing it.

ORIGINAL: chewbecca

It's so weird that we would (well, MOST of us, anyway) never dream of smacking our dogs with anything, but people use that method to train a horse. I didn't know that.

So, it's totally acceptable and most likely needed, to whip the snot out of a horse when they act up?
I never would have thought about it before.

 
Yes, Chewbecca I was always looking for an explanation.  I am hoping the answer isn't a culture thing, you know city dwellers versus rural folks.

Not my area to moderate, so just a personal observation.  What a childish exchange.

ORIGINAL: DPU

Hunterwayit,  I like your advise, very humane, but why is it necessary to strike the rump?

Thank you when I say use it on his rump I don't mean bash him just a tap cause the PVC pipe makes the noise it does most of the work think of it this way if you tap it on your leg it doesn't hurt but makes a noise that's as hard as you need to use it. I love my PVC pipe I've owned and worked with horses most of my life and PVC pipe is my best friend always have it handy you use it as an extension of your arm!
I use that as a whip on young horses instead of whips as many of the horses I work with are what many call "basket cases" plus I'm a gumby type person and often and have been known to whip myself hehe so with PVC pipe I don't hurt my horse nor myself. Many people feel that a horse is larger than you so you need to bully it into respect and in some cases that is true but I am not a large person being only 5 foot and 100 pounds but I can handle most horses I come across it's all to do with how you handle them and gain their respect and that's what our little friend in question needs He needs to learn he isn't boss and if he plays up he still has to work for his food and "relax" time.

Angel, Here is a link to some training articles. I would suggest reading:

Respect - first
Leading - second
Yielding - third

http://www.naturalhorsesupply.com/training.shtml

You need to be assertive not aggresive. With some basic groundwork exercises and consistency you will be able to get a handle on this horse. He does this disrespectful stuff because he has been allowed to. You don't need to beat the snot out of him.

Moderator here....[sm=backtotopic.gif]
This thread needs to stay on topic.
Icons and such are not the topic. Keep it respectful.
ON topic please from here on out...thanks.

You need to be assertive not aggresive. With some basic groundwork exercises and consistency you will be able to get a handle on this horse. He does this disrespectful stuff because he has been allowed to. You don't need to beat the snot out of him.

I agree with danehaven

  

Hi,
About 4 months ago I purchased my first horse, a 5 year old paint gelding. I've worked around horses for years and know a lot, although I am still learning. My horse has a very sweet personality but he has bit of an attitude problem. Shiloh wasn't worked enough at his old place and now has some nasty habits. I've been able to stop him from doing a lot of them except for one big one. He will kick at you. It doesn't matter where he is or when. He will kick when he is lose, in his stall, and sometimes when you go to clean his hooves. I've gotten him over the hooves part some but sometimes when I tell him over he will purposely move towards me and try to pin me against the wall. When he is in the pasture and doesn't feel like coming in he will go towards me, turn and buck, kicking at me. He's kicked me twice so far, almost breaking a rib sometime. He's also kicked at my mom for merely going in the pasture one day so it really has to be stopped. Shiloh is good a lot of times but its when he doesn't get to do what he wants to do when he starts kicking. I've tried slapping him but he just kicks again in response and he'll come close to getting me. If I take a whip with me into the pasture he is good if a crack it once but I don't like the fact when he sometimes does it. Like I said before, he doesn't always kick at me in the pasture but only when he doesn't feel like coming in.... If you could give me some hints that would be great,
Thank you!
My parents are getting quite upset so I need to fix his problem ASAP.
-Veronica
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Hi Veronica,
Not a good situation. Hitting him will make it worse. He has you intimidated (because he can). I think you need to make it hard for him to do this by having some activity (work) you can put him to when he looks like he is going to kick or gets pushy at all. Do you have a round pen? It is a great tool and would help with your problem. Please let me know and I will give you things to do in the round pen that will help. Assuming you do not have one, put a rope halter and lead rope on the horse and practice doing 'hind end yields' on the ground. These are tight circles where you face the horses butt and put short but firm 'tugs' on the lead rope to get the horse to pivot on his front feet and swing his hind end away from you. You need to get good at this. It is a great tool to modify many unwanted behaviors. The horse cannot kick you if you are doing this correctly. After three-four rotations put a HO! (stop) on the horse and let him stand quietly for a moment as a reward. The go the opposite direction 3-4 rotations. Practice this in a safe small paddock until you and the horse get very used to this action. Then you'll have it as a wonderful tool you'll use a lot to modify behavior you do not want in a non-abusive way. He need to learn that kicking does not give him a 'win'. There is a lot of initial risk with your horse. If he keeps winning by intimidating you and getting out of work or anything else he wants, the situation will get worse and worse. You need to begin training him out of this immediately and it will take a bit of time. Once he associates kicking with going to work, he'll stop it. But it will take some time. Let me know about the round pen. I can offer you telephone coaching and internet coaching to help get you through faster and safer. I can give you so much more in an hour on the phone than in a simple, little email. Consider it please.
Keep me posted. BE CAREFUL! Your safety is your first concern. If you are unsure and not confident, the horse will continue to intimidate you. Any hesitancy in your action or lack of precision, will prompt him to try to 'lead the dance'. Good luck.....
Sincerely, Franklin

 
Here is the web site that I got the letter from.
 
[linkhttp://www.wayofthehorse.org/HelpCenter/archives.html]http://www.wayofthehorse.org/HelpCenter/archives.html[/link]

Here is another web site.

[linkhttp://www.horsewhisperer.com/horse_problems.htm]http://www.horsewhisperer.com/horse_problems.htm[/link]