Dog Community

Horse people-----i need help

Posted : 5/7/2007 7:59:53 AM

DH bought a minaiture horse. Background: 14 years old, gelding, raised with the same man for 11 years, used to being chained up outside and tied inside a small stall inside a garage. used to pull this mans daughter with a cart and sliegh, but has not done it for a few years. The mans daughter is now 17, and was getting no attention from her so he sold. he was not around ANY other animals. Always been alone.

I had 2 friends who are professional horse breakers (brokers) check him out. they both said he was a great horse and would be perfect for us. He would not bite or kick, and with a little training he could pull again with the cart.

Ashley and I were alone with him all of saturday and she fed him carrots and some apple. He was fine. A few times he would turn his rear on me, but no big deal. i backed away. We are calm and quite around him.

Yesterday, DH and trainer friend come over and friend brushes him and rubs him. Then Ashley wne to give him a carrot and he turned and almost kicked her. Friend went over and smacked him ( not hard) and pulled his harness. Then friend tried to clean his feet and horse freaked out. Got up on back legs and was ticked. Friend knew what he was doing and had controll and talked the horse down.

Friend says, he'll be fine, he's just used to having his own way, and with work he'll be fine.

I AM TERRIFIED of him. This is not what I expected, and DH loves him. He's fine with him, where as i am not comfortable. I ahd to bring him out by myself this morning, and I was afraid. he didn't do anything wrong, but I am so afraid of him turning on me, or kicking me once I release him.

For now we have him chained and we tie him inside just like he was used to. But after this settles down, he will will loose in a paddock and free to go in the barn.

Any advice would really help me right now. If it wasn't for DH he would be gone. Can I believe that we can re-train him, or can you not teach an old horse new manners?

Personal Champ

Posted : 5/7/2007 8:10:51 AM

Wow, he's a cute little porker!

You can certainly teach an old horse new tricks, so to speak. However, he can and will pick up on you fear and use it to his advantage. So, either your friends or your DH may be the best people to handle him for now.

Just to reassure you, my first horse (when I was 15) was an off the track TB that was gelded shortly before I bought him. He was violent - if you went into the stall, he would lunge at you, teeth bared, or try to pin you into the wall. Out of the stall, he was fine. It seems he was terratorial. After several months of consistency, he was fine to handle. I ended up selling him 3 years later to an 8 year old girl, who has had him now for 7 years and still adores him.

That horse was plain old MEAN - and he turned around. Yours can, too, with the right training and attitude.

ETA - the chaining may very well be a source for frustration for the pony, and could be contributing to his behavior, as well.

TAOofGoldyShep

Posted : 5/7/2007 9:07:42 AM

I agree wholeheartedly with all of what Personal Champ has advised. It sounds as if the pony is still adjusting to the move. After given some adjusting time, if you're afraid of getting hurt, I'd look at hiring a horse trainer that has a flair for natural horesmanship.

Good luck to you and report back. I'd love to hear how it all goes!

magilacudy

Posted : 5/7/2007 9:21:51 AM

Thank you so much. I feel much better getting more opinions on the situation. Other than turning his rear, he seems calm. We are going to let him off the chain in the next day or so. My husband is fine and comfortable with him. I've been going out to him every 20 minutes to sit by him and just talk. I did call the previous owner this morning and he said he always had the habbit of trying to kick when he had enough of you, so obviously they never trained him. He said the neighbor kids would always come with treats for him and he was fine, and that he is used to cats and chickens.

I'm not going to give up. I'll let the trainer and DH handle this for now, and get used to things before I try to walk him.
Another question: trainer said it could be a benefit to get another animal in with him for companionship, as in a goat. The plan was to get my baby pygmy in July, but I had said no since the horse came. these guys are telling me to get one. Do you think this is wise? The horse will have 2 months to settle in before the goat comes.

probe1957

Posted : 5/7/2007 9:26:38 AM

We have horses but I don't know a damn thing about them. The wife and the SD are the horse people. Frankly, I am afraid of them.

We had a boarder a couple of years back. He was asking me if I was into the horses. I told him I wasn't and that I was afraid of them. He said, "That's not all bad. If you're around horses long enough, it is only a matter of time before one of them hurts you." This is consistent with my limited experience. My wife has had her finger and ribs broken by horses. SD has had a concussion and her ribs broken. My uncle was severely injured and nearly died after being kicked by a horse. These are all very accomplished horse people.

Listen to your gut, Angel. Get rid of the horse. I know not everyone is going to agree with that. I know kids get hurt a lot if different ways and there is nothing you can do to change that. However, everyone who has horses eventually gets hurt by them. The only thing you are waiting to see is how badly someone in your family will be hurt, not IF they will be hurt.

TAOofGoldyShep

Posted : 5/7/2007 9:34:57 AM

ORIGINAL: angeltrudelle

Another question: trainer said it could be a benefit to get another animal in with him for companionship, as in a goat. The plan was to get my baby pygmy in July, but I had said no since the horse came. these guys are telling me to get one. Do you think this is wise? The horse will have 2 months to settle in before the goat comes.

My opinion is yes. Goats make great companions for horses, as well as donkeys.

RoyallyYours

Posted : 5/7/2007 9:48:50 AM

ORIGINAL: probe1957
He said, "That's not all bad. If you're around horses long enough, it is only a matter of time before one of them hurts you." This is consistent with my limited experience. My wife has had her finger and ribs broken by horses. SD has had a concussion and her ribs broken. My uncle was severely injured and nearly died after being kicked by a horse. These are all very accomplished horse people.

Listen to your gut, Angel. Get rid of the horse. I know not everyone is going to agree with that. I know kids get hurt a lot if different ways and there is nothing you can do to change that. However, everyone who has horses eventually gets hurt by them. The only thing you are waiting to see is how badly someone in your family will be hurt, not IF they will be hurt.

Well, let's see. We had horses from the time I was 3 weeks until I was 16 and the last one had to be put down for renal failure. Not one member of my family, or any of my friends, was ever hurt (other than a stepped on foot occasionally) in that time period by 4 different horses. I've also been around many others. This is, however, just my experience, as Billy's is his.

I can't tell you what to do with the horse. From what I've seen, if you're afraid of a horse, they know it. This may be affecting his behavior with you. I'm also not sure I would chain the horse. As others have said, that could be part of his frustration.

Personal Champ

Posted : 5/7/2007 9:51:33 AM

Angel, I agree with getting a goat, too. Horses are herd animals, and happiest when together, but goats and donkeys make great substitutes. Obviously, supervise them together when you first get the goat, but they should be fine. I have 2 - 10 month old mini donkeys out with my 3 horses, and they do well together.

rwbeagles

Posted : 5/7/2007 9:54:19 AM

To be fair BIlly...you can say the same thing about dogs or cats. Work with them, around them enough and you will be hurt by one. A bite, a scratch, an outright attack. It will happen...as you say. Depending on the size of the dog....injuries from dogs can be just as horrific and life threatening. Ask any vet, groomer, or trainer...eventually you will be hurt by the animal you work with on a daily basis because they are animals.

spiritdogs

Posted : 5/7/2007 9:59:07 AM

Did you know that you can clicker train horses????
http://clickerpets.stores.yahoo.net/getstarclict1.html
http://www.theclickercenter.com/2004/index.php
http://www.kbrhorse.net/tra/clickr01.html
http://www.equineclickertraining.com/
http://www.clickertraining.tv/product.html?item=KPDLVD819R-02

I have a horse who knows "wait" and "come" - this works, honest. [

]

magilacudy

Posted : 5/7/2007 10:04:10 AM

Billy even though you have them, you are still afraid?

The funny thing is, I never had a problem with horses, I ahve always been at ease with them. When cleaning stalls if one shoved me I shoved him back. But for some dam reason, I have fear of this "little" horse. I feel I ahve more control over a large horse then this one. If that makes any sense to you.

The kids can not go to him, and they will not. So I'm not afraid for the kdis right now. In my last few visits with him he seems to be interested in me. i continue to talk and pet him.

How long should it take with the trainer, to break his bad habbits? I had said I need to feel safe with him, and I give it 2 weeks. Is that not long enough?

TAOofGoldyShep

Posted : 5/7/2007 10:06:19 AM

Clicker training for horses kind of makes sense to me, since we sort of make that clicking sound with our mouths and tongues (as one way to ask them to move or to get their attention). Cool! And, as I side note, I find myself doing the same thing with my dogs.

probe1957

Posted : 5/7/2007 10:06:38 AM

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles
To be fair BIlly...you can say the same thing about dogs or cats.

I am not going to dispute that but, to me, it is a question of degree. I have never PERSONALLY known anyone to require hospital attention due to being injured by a cat or a dog. I have known 3 people who had to go to the hospital after being injured by a horse.

TAOofGoldyShep

Posted : 5/7/2007 10:20:05 AM

ORIGINAL: probe1957

I have known 3 people who had to go to the hospital after being injured by a horse.

No doubt a person needs have to have a hightened level of safety awareness around horses (for one's own safety as well as the horse's) but sometimes injuries (small and large) happen due to how we, as humans, interact with them....as well as the respect we hold for them.

I have suffered at least two minor-medium (on a grand scale) injuries from working with horses and they were both due to actions that could have been prevented had I been more aware.

probe1957

Posted : 5/7/2007 10:35:11 AM

ORIGINAL: angeltrudelle
Billy even though you have them, you are still afraid?

Not like I used to be. I mean I can muck stalls with the horses in them. I can load them on the trailer and move them from the pasture to the barn. Things that I didn't used to be able to do. I respect them and try to always be aware when I am around them. Horses are such a big animal that they can hurt you pretty badly without even meaning to.

How long should it take with the trainer, to break his bad habbits? I had said I need to feel safe with him, and I give it 2 weeks. Is that not long enough?

One of our horses was born on our farm. He is a beautiful horse but was a bit of a challenge to get him to the point where he could be ridden. IF you could get a saddle on him, he would buck it off. How hard does a horse have to buck to buck a saddle off? Even saddle broncs don't usually do that. So, off to the trainer he goes.

He is at the trainer's facility for about THREE MONTHS. The trainer makes a little progress with him but nowhere near enough that he considers the horse safe, so the trainer sends him to a bronc rider for an attitude adjustment. After a few weeks with the bronc rider, we get the horse back and he is GREAT. SD asks the bronc rider what he did to break the horse, to which he replies, "You don't want to know."

Today, this is an excellent horse who has won many awards. I won't ride him because he is a bit high-spirited for my experience level, but the wife and SD ride him all the time. Even a horse that seems hopeless can be brought around under the right professional.